coolant

[phillyb]

i have been running straight distilled water for a while now.
i understand there's no antifreeze and at high temps, it'll boil.
i understand there are no rust inhibitors and all that.
talk to me about this please.
benefits of running water?
benefits of going by the book and using coolant?

[rfomzr]

I have some experience with drawbacks of using only distilled water in coolant circuits. Do not do it...
One with a car in higher temps your going to run into the water boiling off.
Two you always want a corrosion and rust inhibitor in there.
Three coolant also protects against bacteria. in the colder months you can run the risk of getting a slime in your system caused by bacteria. Going unchecked it can cause problems with your temp sensor.

I would suggest putting coolant in minimum 20% to benefit from the corrosion and bacteria inhibitors. If your in colder climates like me use 50% to prevent freezing.

[johnsin55]

Originally Posted by rfomzr I have some experience with drawbacks of using only distilled water in coolant circuits. Do not do it... One with a car in higher temps your going to run into the water boiling off. Two you always want a corrosion and rust inhibitor in there. Three coolant also protects against bacteria. in the colder months you can run the risk of getting a slime in your system caused by bacteria. Going unchecked it can cause problems with your temp sensor. I would suggest putting coolant in minimum 20% to benefit from the corrosion and bacteria inhibitors. If your in colder climates like me use 50% to prevent freezing.

I took some Caterpillar technician training classes up here in nor-cal and he pretty much hit the nail on the head...

We spent several days just cover cooling systems, and running straight distilled water will give you the maximum heat rejection from your system, however it also helps keep seals from drying out/leaking, prevents corrosion of all the aluminum, and helps keep the water pump from cavitating at higher temps/pump speeds. The boiling point can be raised by installing a higher pressure radiator cap, but then you risk blowing lines, radiator or headgasket...

Id agree and say run a minimum of 20% just for protection, and you'll be running as cool and safe as possible for the long term...

[phillyb]

i live in socal. it's never 32 degrees.
and the water rarely goes to 212, so rarely boils.
but yeah. keep it coming.
cause i've been doing research about this for a week or so and have gotten mixed information.

[Dash08]

If the cap reads FL22 then that's what I'm using. You shouldn't fuck around with cooling systems. Can anybody say "can of worms"?

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by phillyb a) benefits of running water? b) benefits of going by the book and using coolant?

a) short term slightly cheaper, long term can be much more expensive for reasons listed in other prior posts.
b) short term slightly more expensive (we are talking $5 here), long term probably much cheaper for reasons listed in prior posts.

Saving pennies now, will cost you dollars later.

Let me rephrase in language you can understand.......

Philly you fucking cheapskate, put some fucking coolant in there before you encounter more FAIL..........
Plus you cant fool me with your talk of "distilled" water, we all know you wouldnt spring for distilled water when water from the faucet is free.

Let me refresh your memory of some previous efforts to save pennies which then lead to expensive failure:

YouTube- Mazdaspeed 3 PhillyB Failures

YouTube- Mazdaspeed 3 PhillyB Failures

[phillyb]

lol

[gsrtype1]

I always run water or mostly water when I get a chance. Water cools better than coolant and if your system is sealed I dont see corrosion being an issue. rust happens when metal contacts air (oxygen) yeah water has some oxygen in it but much less. I ran water in my integra for 200,000 miles with no corrosion. Also if you want extra protection you can pick up water weter for like $10. Its design to lube and protect when running 100% water but I wouldn't worry about it.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 I always run water or mostly water when I get a chance. Water cools better than coolant and if your system is sealed I dont see corrosion being an issue. rust happens when metal contacts air (oxygen) yeah water has some oxygen in it but much less. I ran water in my integra for 200,000 miles with no corrosion. Also if you want extra protection you can pick up water weter for like $10. Its design to lube and protect when running 100% water but I wouldn't worry about it.

Rust is one thing its referring to iron and its alloys..

Corrosion is what can fuck philly.. our block is aluminum.. it'll corrode.. not rust

And I pose one more question for you... what happens when you boil this pure water? What elements are you left with? Well.. water is H2O..when you boil it your breaking it down... into.....?










Bingo.. theres your oxy

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Doc what happens when you boil this pure water? What elements are you left with? Well.. water is H2O..when you boil it your breaking it down... into.....?

Doc = Chemistry Fail.

When you boil water you make water vapor.
Water is not unstable, it highly stable........... it does not breakdown into its constituent elements when heated...... if it did you would have more problems than corrosion, H2 is highly explosive.

There is however O2 dissolved in the water that comes out of solution as the water gets hot. Think kettle hissing as it starts to warm up but before it boils.

Corrosion of the various metals is possible, but it is not from the breakdown of water into its constituent elements. It would be from natural present oxygen or possibly any minor electrolysis action that may be present from dissimilar metals.

[MattJackson86]

Ive been running distilled water and water wetter for around 7,000 miles. I dont foresee any issue with this method of cooling. Water Wetter specifically states it is for "Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water"

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by MattJackson86 Ive been running distilled water and water wetter for around 7,000 miles. I dont foresee any issue with this method of cooling. Water Wetter specifically states it is for "Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water"

Distilled water + water wetter = win
Distilled water + coolant = win
Phillyb + tap water = FAIL

coolant lubricates the pump.

[MattJackson86]

Originally Posted by 18psiWhiteMS3 coolant lubricates the pump.

So does water wetter....

I would not just suggest distilled water. I think water wetter is a must if you use water.

Originally Posted by FreeFlyFreak Distilled water + water wetter = win Distilled water + coolant = win Phillyb + tap water = FAIL

Good Point.

[Doc]

Ahh I prob should delete that shameful stupid thought.. but I wont.. Ill leave my stupidity flag flying.. Chemistry was a long time ago.. but faaark.. wtf was i thinking, I wish I could groan at myself

Note: Dont drink when youve had zero sleep for days, and type... you'll just fail at thinking like me.. sorry guys im going to bed

[wankular]

That video is fucking hilarious.

[phillyb]

fuck it. i'll get some water wetter then

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by phillyb fuck it. i'll get some water wetter then

Just dont go up the mountain skiing, buying pot, or whatever and forget you have no coolant in there........ that is where the FAIL lies.

[phillyb]

yeah...
i live in the san fernando valley. it gets really hot, but it never freezes.

[fjames]

This thread in general has me confused. Is there some deep set prejudice against antifreeze?

With extended life pre-mix readily available, isn't it a no-brainer to just grab some and be happy? I picked up a gallon of Prestone at Wal-Mart last week to top off my fl22 - the label is pretty funny, it basically says "this shit'll mix with anything, so don't worry about your manual." So I didn't, especially after finding out fl22 is some kind of super double secret Mazda stuff, which has to be bullshit.

[bykeryder4life]

dammit philly go get coolant not water wetter. get some cheap shit like peak 50/50 mix and fill your shit up. Make sure to flush all the old shit out real good...

[Dash08]

So, i did a little comparing between regular anti-freeze and Mazda's FL22. The only differences that I can see are that Mazda uses a 55/45 mixture and a couple different ingredients. It also states that the FL22 is designed specifically for aluminum engines.

That could have some value, but as far as FL22 being some super special anti-freeze is highly doubtful.

[aaronc7]

since it never gets cold there, run like a 60/40 or 70/30 water/antifreeze mix and throw in a bottle of water wetter for good measure.

[jv92red]

In SoCal you'll be fine running Distilled water + Water Wetter. It RARELY drops below 40 here so no worries of freezing. Also, water is more efficient in transferring it's heat off than anti-freeze. To make water more efficient with heat transfer you can decrease it's surface tension by making the water "wetter" Water Wetter also gives the rust and corrosion protection you wouldn't get by running straight water. Of course In any other colder climate than SoCal I would always want to run some kind of a anti-freeze mix with water.

By the way, water doesn't boil at 212F in a sealed pressurized cooling system. Boiling point is higher, not sure what that # would be. Guess it depends on a few different factors.

Here are some #'s to look at to see the science behind water's cooling ability (adding in Mercury and olive oil for comparative purposes only):

Thermal conductivity in W/m K (higher is better):
Mercury = 8.3
Water = 0.67
Glycol, Antifreeze = 0.25
Olive Oil = 0.17

Heat Capacity in kJ/kgK (Higher is better):
Water = 4.184
Glycol, Antifreeze = 2.38
Olive Oil = 1.97
Mercury = 0.14

So in a nutshell, Water is the best liquid for holding heat. Practically, it is also the best for transferring it.

Oh yeah... disclaimers:
Don't use Olive Oil unless it's Extra Virgin. (Don't be a cheap ass)
ALWAYS USE DISTILLED WATER. Not garden hose water like my dad taught me.

[bykeryder4life]

Originally Posted by jv92red By the way, water doesn't boil at 212F in a sealed pressurized cooling system. Boiling point is higher, not sure what that # would be.

for every 1 psi of pressure you add to the system it raises the boiling point approx. 3*F

[rodrigo]

fuck water wetter.

u wanna break surface tension put a couple drops of dishsoap.

philly use 50% fl-22 or any approved coolant (that is already a 50/50 mix )and then the other 50% distilled water.

this will yield a 75/25 water/coolant mix and will be best ovarall

[Dash08]

Originally Posted by pat bateman yeah, like blue and yellow dye.

Yeah, I'm no chemist. I could barely pronounce the names. Just throwing it out there.