Bad News.... FORZDA 1 Blew Up (Bent Rods)

[FORZDA 1]

Yep, it happened about 12 miles from home tonight while running some WOT data logs after tuning the WGDC to smooth the boost curve @ 23psi. I made two good pulls, then turned around and ran two more. I felt a little bump in the third pull, but figured it was a spark plug blowout. The last pull was just about done when "something" happened in the boost control loop. I had the AP connected and the DH disconnected so I didn't see the live data display, but I immediately knew what happened and caught it so the block isn't ventilated. I hooked up the DH and drove it home at about 15mph @ <1500 rpms with it knocking REAL LOUD and the clutch doing the now classic pulsation, but pretty violent. I really think a piston is hitting the crank cheek...

I just took a really quick look through the data and I think I've found the upper boost limit... I saw the max boost logged at 29.97psi with many more @ 25-29psi+.

The good news is the new injector seals hold up to some serious pressures(!) and I'm running the PTP version...

I'll update this post with more info and the logs tomorrow...

Too bad I didn't get it on the dyno before it blew. It was making some serious power and felt awesome, ...until it blew up!


Edit Update! Logs attached. This event was entirely preventable. I found the problem in the map I loaded for these runs. I was working on it while tending to lots of other things at home, had the dogs crawling all over my head and the wife talking to me about her day. I had to put the laptop down and get up to do other things several times while trying to review logs and old maps to make WGDC/Bst Dyn tweaks. I obviously failed at this multi-tasking event and lost track of where I was and made a fatal copy-paste error. I pasted in a VERY aggressive Boost Dyamics table that I had tried out with the K04 a while back.

As you will see in the logs and BT table, I'm still off just a bit on the WGDC, but it was "ok" and the car was pulling HARD in logs 1 & 2 until I shifted gears and brought the BD table into serious play for 3 @ 4.

IMO, the motor is "almost" bullet-proof, unless the bullet is fired from stupidity! I'm also pretty impressed with the BNR as it capable of moving some serious air.

The lesson here children, is that when you're tuning above 20psi, PAY FUCKING ATTENTION to WTF you're doing!

Oh well, it was going to happen sooner or later as I'm commited(!) to pushing the DISI, so now I'll go ahead an install the parts I have on hand (light flywheel, clutch, front sway-bar, etc.). I haven't decided how to approach the rebuild yet, but I'm leaning more towards simply replacing the rods and the crank thrust bearing (it took a beating driving home) if everything looks good to stay the course with the OEM parts as much as possible. BTW, I'll be doing all this at Forzda's SPEED Shop...


Edit 12 April: Added first photo. Hood off, ready to begin.....

[redneckrecon]

damn bro...

[PunjabiPlaya]

grats! level up!

[AZSPEED3]

Sorry to hear man. That sucks. Time for built motor and BT

[amoosenamedhank]

Were you targeting those psi numbers or did you have a hardware failure?

[SIXual Panda]

Daaaaaamn. 29 psi?!

[4G63]

Originally Posted by SIXual Panda Daaaaaamn. 29 psi?!

^ This. You on stock turbo? Holy shit lol

[tddvrrn]

sucks! that is some crazy pressure tho'... nice job keeping the motor together. sensitivity ftw!

[wolly6973]

Originally Posted by AdrenalineRush ^ This. You on stock turbo? Holy shit lol

BNR S3

[stefan]

evo? sti? 5.0? something else?

[Erich]

Rods bent all to hell and he would still probably kick the crap out of the rest of us on an auto-x course.

[aaronc7]

Originally Posted by stefani evo? sti? 5.0? something else?

Miata?

[Erich]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 Miata?

I don't think he's gay.

[Ferdball]

Originally Posted by Erich Rods bent all to hell and he would still probably kick the crap out of a Honda on an auto-x course.

Fixed

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Are you going to change your signature to "zoom freakin boom"?

Seriously though, sorry to see this shit happen! Hope you don't give up on the platform, I pay lots of attention to your post.

[theschrum]

Sorry to hear. GL on fixing it. Any plans on a build now?

[rtabagaboy]

I am curious on the logs will turn out... thankfully the block is not a big paperweight... yet.

[jroc]

Guess ill be the other ms6 kicking the shit out of other cars on track for the time being. GLWrebuild

[SleeperHatch]

Man that sucks...now build a motor put a BT in it and rip 8th gen a new asshole...again..please

[Karmat]

At least you caught it before the rods decided that they didnt want to be in the block anymore.

Could have been worse.

[06Speed6]

Congrats on being the first person to bend a rod from too much power. Dustin would have probably been the first but he decided to use his car as a wet vac.

Man at 30+psi you pegged that 3 bar map! I am curious how high it went before the rods bent. Do you have a upgraded MAF as well? I dont see how you could peg both of those sensors and still have a drivable car. I wonder if it leaned out prior to the rod letting go.

On a positive note, we must have some really good rods because most factory forgings dont bend, they break. Also on a positive note, we must have some fairly good pistons as well since it didnt shatter around the wrist pin and let the rod go that way.

[rodrigo]

stock bottom end? miles?

funny i see this cuz saturday i had a similar issue, i put in the 6 puck and left the mbc at the same turns as before..that would net me 21.5 psi.... except i went for a run and the fucker jumped to 30 and the peak warning beep went crazy....so i clicked the mbc 2 full turns down and the fucker would hold about 28psi wtf!!!

car felt insanely fast but i couldnt do that...so i turned it half way down and back to 21-22psi...

n e ways, build that shit forzda and take pics

[Chriscote]

In light of this tragedy lets all remember that..


Forzda is still the man.

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-beyond-67927/

[jmhinkle]

Hmmm. Kinda scary. Maybe I should back off the 28psi map Dustin has me running.

[06Speed6]

Well 28 psi may be safe still, he pegged the map at ~30psi so there is almost no telling how much higher than that it could have gone.

[Ziggo]

Subbing for blow up logs. IIRC, bent rods equals classic buckling failure which could still be above the fatigue limit. The other mode of failure then would be broken rods after some number of miles running at 2X.X psi. We can all pray that 30psi isn't above the fatigue limit for the rods so we don't have to worry about ventilated blocks 10k miles after getting everything setup.

[NJSPEED3]

Sorry To hear Bud! Gl with your future plans!

[vbt101]

I'm still wondering how he got up to 30psi. WG reference line damaged? Incorrect PID tuning?

The aftermarket MAP sensor requires some calibration to make it work with the AP, correct?Could something have been up with the calibration?

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 Miata?

He has 5 cars, and at least one is a Miata iirc.

Originally Posted by lenny127 stock bottom end? miles? funny i see this cuz saturday i had a similar issue, i put in the 6 puck and left the mbc at

Stock bottom end & low miles... I want to say <30K but I don't remember. I'm guessing mechanical failure of the iwg (duh), but it could just be crazy creep at higher psi. EWG next time. There's a chance the ebcs failed closed, but I doubt that though bc IIRC they are designed to fail open.

Originally Posted by jmhinkle Hmmm. Kinda scary. Maybe I should back off the 28psi map Dustin has me running.

That's why I'm keeping the 76 to 20-21 when she goes in until I can afford a build. Otherwise, I'll be taking the bus!

----------------------

Again, sorry buddy. I look forward to the build

[JacksonMS30]

Sorry this happened! Hope you stick with the platform and build the motor.

Good luck with everything!

[Stealth01]

Sorry, dude. That sucks. You rebuilding, or getting something more reliable to mod?

[Novej]

Man your car was bad ass before..... Now it could possibly come back even more bad ass......Forzda 1 and a built, BT, MS6...........what a lethal combination. By the way awesome save when you realized what was going on...... Im sure 99% of speed owners would've lifted (maybe) and been like, "wtf was that, hmmm (shrug) oh well lets try to boost it again"....hahahaha I look forward to hearing what your next plans are......

[amoosenamedhank]

Where is this cat at... we have questions dammit!

[Stealth01]

Carillo rods.
CP Pistons.
Rebuild in time for next year's Forum Wars.

[phillyb]

cool
congrats

[Lex]

I am very interested to see these logs. There is a big difference between running a controlled and tuned 28psi versus an uncontrolled spike to 30+. Spikes are what kill a lot of these motors - can't even call that power really. I am curious what allowed it to spike to those levels.

[Blackspeed]

Originally Posted by phillyb cool congrats

What a scumbag thing to say

[Design]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 Sorry this happened! Hope you stick with the platform and build the motor. Good luck with everything!

+1.

In for updates.

[Stealth01]

Originally Posted by Blackspeed What a scumbag thing to say

philly says that to everyone who has a blown motor. He assumes a new, non-mazdaspeed car is on the way, and thus congratulates the owner for getting rid of the failboat for a car that takes mods better.

He's still a scumbag, and he'll admit it, but he's being facetious with his remark.

[MSMS3]

Sorry to hear about the blow. I do not consider this fail. Forzda uses good science, has a vast reservoir of experience and knowledge and encountered something unexpected while taking what he thought were reasonable risks with reasonable assumptions for safety. Something let him down and the data logs will show what went wrong.

We usually learn more from things that go wrong than we ever do from being safe and being "right" (whatever that means).

What Forzda has been doing with his progressive mods, even when he encounters problems, helps all of us. Taking smart risks and being willing and able to absorb those risks and learn from them is exactly how we make progress.

I wonder how many "failures" Thomas Edison or Jonas Salk had before they achieved the successes they are known for today.

Hats off to Forzda for his approach. This is not fail. This is learning. It is inspirational. We all benefit from it. (And no, I'm not gonna pony up money for the rebuild, however, lol - Forzda is on his own there).