HOW TO: Clean your valves - easy & cheap

[jack_hammer]

alright, i did a valve cleaning last year on my car. i attempted the air blaster method with my 100psi / 3 gal tank and a different gun. it did not work at all. i thought it was the compressor. i did the job with a screw driver, some brushes, and a collection of cleaners.

fast forward to last weekend... @SpeedEngineer; and i did his valves using this method. here are my notes to help others:
1) use the gun mentioned in the OP vs the other media blaster gun available at HF that is a suction feed. it is useless.
2) we used a 15 gal compressor this time. it worked just fine. it's only a 1.5 hp motor, though, so it took a little time to fill up between valves. we also ran at about 95-100psi operating pressure.
3) we soaked 6 of the 8 valves. we used the vacuum and compressed air to drain them before blasting.
4) we did not soak the last set of valves, and they came out as clean as the soaked valves. i would contend you do not need to soak if you're using a media blaster. but, again, we used it at a pretty high pressure.
5) all valves required a little scraping to get 100% clean.

this is the gun i bought originally (last year with my small compressor and then again this year) this gun is terrible! don't use it. it won't work.


this gun is what we used with success. we did, however, tape the lid closed because that lid is just about useless.



edit/
and smelson, too. he showed up and helped.
/edit

[SpeedEngineer]

I concur


Sent from LOL

[mczimer]

@jack_hammer;
@SpeedEngineer;


So basically you are saying to just follow the instructions lol (well, plus a little scraping)

Glad you got cleaned!

[SpeedEngineer]

lmao yea these instructions are great

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by mczimer @jack_hammer; @SpeedEngineer; So basically you are saying to just follow the instructions lol (well, plus a little scraping) Glad you got cleaned!

haha well, basically yes. follow the instructions, except for the fact you can trim hours from the job by skipping the soaking and going straight to media blasting.

[mrmonk7663]

The b12 does work great....the soaking is not needed though. The B12 came in an aersol bottle. Spray some on there, use the gun cleaning kit, soak up shit with papertowel, air dry with compressor, then blast. 5 minutes per valve this way.

[blam1]

Waiting for b12 and gun cleaning kit to come in. If the 3 gal compressor doesn't cut it then manual it is.

Great instructions. thanks

[blam1]

valves clean as much as Icould with gun cleaning kit. definitely need way bigger than 3 gal compressor. gotta be careful removing vacuum actuator arm. I broke the white plastic piece so ended up deleting vtcs.
great instructions

[tarnumf]

Originally Posted by blam1 gotta be careful removing vacuum actuator arm. I broke the white plastic piece so ended up deleting vtcs. great instructions

Per shop manual, it has to be warmed up with heat gun before removal and placing back.

[mczimer]

I do not see the point in removing the VTCS plumber, you have access to bolts without a problem, and it is one less thing to worry about breaking.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by blam1 valves clean as much as Icould with gun cleaning kit. definitely need way bigger than 3 gal compressor. gotta be careful removing vacuum actuator arm. I broke the white plastic piece so ended up deleting vtcs. great instructions

I don't remember doing anythingbwith the VTCS other than unhooking a vacuum line and an electric plug.

Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

[blam1]

Originally Posted by himurax13 I don't remember doing anythingbwith the VTCS other than unhooking a vacuum line and an electric plug. Sent via blown passenger side speakers.

absolutely right. That's all you need to do. I was following jbarone's TIG instructions that mentioned using a flat head screwdriver to remove the actuator arm from the ball. Don't do it, you will break the stupid molded plastic arm. And i just using a little masking tape to tape the spacer to the IM on bolt 8 and just pulled the tape once the bolt was threaded. I did something else differently that i am blanking on too

[Lex2007]

Did you guys use course or fine walnut media?

Search results for: 'walnut media'


Nice pic showing different walnut media sizes: http://www.kramerindustriesonline.co...comparison.htm

2 gaskets yes? EGR to block and intake manifold to block.

[tarnumf]

I used HF-fine media.
As for gaskets - installed 1/8" teflon one for intake manifold and EGR was deleted with JBR kit.

[BigRedSpecial]

I did mine last weekend with an identical gun to the one in the OP using my 11gal compressor, which worked excellently; I could blast two valves for about 20 seconds each before the pump cut in. I cleaned up some hard spots using a screwdriver, wooden skewer and a 12gauge wire brush in my drill. Honestly, the brush/drill did a better job than the walnut after soaking it for a few minutes, but couldn't reach everywhere.

I got my walnut media at a pet store; it's sold as reptile bedding.

For solvent, I tried denatured alcohol, then seafoam, then methanol; none of it did very much... so I tried some stuff from work - LPS "CFC Free" solvent. Shit is amazing, and completely cut through the carbon in minutes. LPS is a common brand so if you can find this shit, try it out.

[Lex2007]

Looks great! Does LPS solvent evaporate on its own?

What was the hardest part of the job? Removing the manifold? EGR removal?

Did ya reuse those 2 gaskets? I need to prep for the same job...which is why I ask. Figure I will clean the EGR ad PCV while I am at it.

[BigRedSpecial]

Yeah it evaporates just as quick (if not quicker) than methanol, so if someone was planning on letting it soak for a while they'd have to tape over the port or something. I only let it sit for about 10 minutes so it wasn't an issue.

Nothing about the job was difficult; just time consuming. Download the instructions for the JBR gasket and follow those and you'll be fine. My EGR was gone a month after I got the car so that wasn't an issue.

Not sure which gaskets you're referring to... I have the insulating gaskets for the manifold and throttle body, which I reused. Like I said, my EGR is blocked off so there is no gasket to worry about there.

Actually, my old EGR gasket is currently the gasket on my oil return line from the turbo lol.

I should also add that after cleaning the valves I installed a ported manifold and sealed a crack in my intercooler. I have no idea what did it, but I'm seeing a very large increase in fuel economy now.

[Lex2007]

[QUOTE=BigRedSpecial;2251056]Yeah it evaporates just as quick (if not quicker) than methanol, so if someone was planning on letting it soak for a while they'd have to tape over the port or something. I only let it sit for about 10 minutes so it wasn't an issue.

Nothing about the job was difficult; just time consuming. Download the instructions for the JBR gasket and follow those and you'll be fine. My EGR was gone a month after I got the car so that wasn't an issue.

Not sure which gaskets you're referring to... I have the insulating gaskets for the manifold and throttle body, which I reused. Like I said, my EGR is blocked off so there is no gasket to worry about there.QUOTE]

I refer to the gaskets you mention above. EGR and intake manifold. Doesnt apply since youre using Barone racing gaskets.

[BigRedSpecial]

I'd definitely disable your EGR if I were you. That's a big source of the crap on the valves.

If you're in an emissions state, you can simply unplug the actuator. Just plug it back in before testing time.

[theurgy]

Yeah unplug and take the codes out with the AP.
EGRs are a nasty source of crap in the intake runners.
If you are going to get some thermal insulator gaskets, then also get the EGR delete kit because I know when I installed my 1/8" gaskets, they made it near impossible to hook up the hard pipe from the EGR to the IM.

[FearUndersteer]

Anyone in Baltimore Maryland area who would be willing to provide this service for a fee?

[BAT-man]

Just done did it.
Went from this:

To this:


To this:


Highly recommend using a wire brush to scrape off anything on the valve edge and valve seat in the head, as well as that gunk on the top of the valve stem as the last part of the process. You'll have to bend the brush as in the above pic to get to the edges that are close to you, but it comes out great. If any brush bristles get into the cylinder, you can blow them out with compressed air through the spark plug hole.

Lesson for the kids - don't run VTA BOV's - that engine only had 15k on it, w/3k being run as VTA. It gunks shit up. OCC and EGR disconnect should help stay clean for another 70-90K, as it's not a fun weekend doing this stuff.

Also, found a potential EGR blockoff plate:

[theurgy]

If you want one of those block off screw in plates I have a spare one. Send me a PM.

[himurax13]

Meh, those valves were fairly clean to begin with. Now mine had chicken pox blisters growing all over the valves, haha.

[BAT-man]

Lol, but this is only after 15k! Imagine the poor shmucks running VTA for like 20kmiles. Its prolly no longer a valve, just a cylinder shaped disgusting crusty monolith going in and out of that runner.

no pun.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by BAT-man Lol, but this is only after 15k! Imagine the poor shmucks running VTA for like 20kmiles. Its prolly no longer a valve, just a cylinder shaped disgusting crusty monolith going in and out of that runner. no pun.

15k? WTF?

I have cleaned some valves at 60k, 70k, and 85k with no EGR delete or OCC attached that were in similar shape.

[TiGraySpeed6]

So, I'll bite.

What's your logic path that leads you to conclude running VTA causes carbon build up on the valve stems?

Simply saying "Ive got carbon, and I ran VTA, therefore running VTA causes carbon build up" is false logic.

Not washing fuel over the valves, or a constant meth bath, is what allows the carbon build up. It's a well know trait of all DI engines, turbo or not.

[BAT-man]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 So, I'll bite. What's your logic path that leads you to conclude running VTA causes carbon build up on the valve stems? Simply saying "Ive got carbon, and I ran VTA, therefore running VTA causes carbon build up" is false logic. Not washing fuel over the valves, or a constant meth bath, is what allows the carbon build up. It's a well know trait of all DI engines, turbo or not.

I should have explained I guess, but I assumed most folks know what I meant by "I ran VTA and it ended up sucking" -

It's hard to completely tune out the effects of running your BOV VTA or even partial VTA. With DI engines, the main effect is that you constantly run extra rich between shifts and the soot accumulates on the valves much faster than during non VTA operation, especially if you don't disable EGR, which recirculates that extra sooty exhaust into the intake and doubles up on the grime. Hence the above comment that some 60K engines were as dirty as this 15k one.
Point being that the lack of an OCC alone should not have had this kind of effect on the valves at 15k.

On regular FI cars the washing over the valves with fuel will remediate the situation, but it's still a possible issue, probably more with exhaust valves, if you don't beat on the car and let the heat/pressure do some cleaning.

that's the logic, take it or leave it.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Gosh, so running VTA is like a vacuum leak? Wow, who knew. SMH


My point was that there isn't enough of a variance in the backflow to treble the amount of buildup, especially when there is so little overlap and so little time for it to have an effect- less than 1% of overall run time, perhaps 5% if you live in rush hour, stop n go traffic.

During shift points there is enough of both overall air flow and turbulence to prevent the back flow from being able to settle enough for any significant impact. Things settle at idle speeds, but again the amount of time spent at idle is insignificant in terms of engine hours.

So, is there an impact from VTA? Minor at best.

Your build up is from other sources. Some build up more, some less. It varies on qulaity of fuel, driving style, mods, condition of turbo, OCC and, if installed, it's quality & effectiveness, EGR etc etc.

[BAT-man]

To me, it seems that the EGR recirculating extremely rich VTA shift mixtures would do the trick.
Why the backflow turbulence (I assume you mean EGR) would be any different during shift points as compared to any other time, in order to NOT affect extra rich mixture deposits settling, is not clear to me.

All I can tell you is that I've looked at the valves with a boroscope as I was doing the FMIC install and they weren't dirty at all (car had 10k miles) and then at 14-15k, they are suddenly very dirty after having run VTA for 3k+ miles. Bear in mind that the intake was not changed (stock TIP/MAF/filter), the targeted AFR's for cruise and WOT were leaner (logged AFRs confirm this), and stock oil recirc was used (no OCC's). A car doesn't just start randomly building up gunk over 3-5k miles when no other variables other than the BOV venting change (the mere switch from TMIC to FMIC won't affect the condition of increased valve pollution).

I guess you could disprove what I've observed by giving me an example of a similar situation where the outcome was different - clean valves w/no VTA and then 3-5k of VTA and still clean valves. That would make me reconsider my conclusion. For now, I guess we'll both stay where we are. I'll just say this - it's not in my interest to prevent folks from running VTA, ricer as it may be, I love the sound and would have kept it, but my valves being clean is more important to me. I run VTA on my race car for the simplicity of plumbing and my ability to tune out the rich-between-shifts condition (the one thing that the Haltech e6k can do that the AP somehow makes very complex).
To each their own.

[TiGraySpeed6]

I don't mean EGR- EGR only operates for a limited period of time anyway. Alas, when it runs it's like mainlining cancer right onto the valves.

You were referring to the deposits building up in excess during the window when the intake valve is open, or the back flow of deposits from the cylinder back up onto the valve stem.

Bear in mind that the accumulation of deposits on the stem is a geometric growth- the more there is, the faster it grows.

Listen, you do present like an intelligent human, but I don't have any other source to back your theory at this point and between the geometric increases of carbon buildup and the small percentage of valve overlap I just don't see it. I do have an engine that's only seen the clean life - with an EGR delete, a MD OCC and good clean fuel in an e32 blend. It's only got 3K on it tho, so results won't be in till next year.

Other folks will be quick to voice an opinion tho, could be I'm completely lost.

[mczimer]

Am I the only one who noticed he scrubbed the valves with them OPEN?

[BAT-man]

Originally Posted by mczimer Am I the only one who noticed he scrubbed the valves with them OPEN?

You soak/blast/mostly clean them while closed, but to get to the edges of the valve (as described in the post) and valve seats, you have to open them. There is only a small amount of debris that would go into the cylinder during this stage, and it can be blown out with the air hose/burned off easily.

The purpose behind cleaning the valve edges and valve seats is to ensure a good seal which may be compromised by gunk deposits on those surfaces that you cannot remove when cleaning the valves while closed. You also cannot get to the gunk pictured at the top of the stem without the valve being open, as the gunk sits flush with the valve bore when the valve is closed.

End results in the cylinder were checked with a boroscope as well, all was clean.

[avesfan101]

Wear eye protection when using the B12!!!! I forgot to put the goggles on and even though I used a hand pump to get rid of the fluid, there is some you cant get. When you blow the air out, even with a towel over it, some fluid will come out. I didn't have my rag over the valve runner all the way and blew B12 and carbon all over my face and into my eyes. Everything went black and I thought I was blind. Worst pain in my life. 45 minutes of flushing with water and I could see again. My eyes hurt for a day or so. Needless to say, I wear eye protection whenever working with any kind of fluid now.

[lilred]

Temporarily blindness and bloody nose in my case lol. B12 staing headlights is my constant reminder to not be stupid lol

tapafuck

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by lilred Temporarily blindness and bloody nose in my case lol. B12 staing headlights is my constant reminder to not be stupid lol tapafuck

Covering the front end of car with clean rags and towels would be a good idea as well.

I also reccomend removing the serpentine belt before cleaning because the walnut media will imbed itself into the grooves and will slowly tear apart the belt.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by BAT-man Just done did it. Went from this: To this: Highly recommend using a wire brush to scrape off anything on the valve edge and valve seat in the head, as well as that gunk on the top of the valve stem as the last part of the process. You'll have to bend the brush as in the above pic to get to the edges that are close to you, but it comes out great. If any brush bristles get into the cylinder, you can blow them out with compressed air through the spark plug hole.

did you cleaned it with the valve opened with all the gunk and stuf falling down to the cylinder and piston. I would be afraid that some solid parts stay in and rub against the cylinder wall even if you blow thru the spark plug hole.

[BAT-man]

I have a boroscope and used it to peek into the cylinders to make sure nothing was left in there.
I wouldn't be concerned with gunk in the cylinder, as I would be with any of the brush hairs. which is why perhaps using plastic brushes may be safer. I do believe that using copper should be ok as well, since it's softer than both the rings and the cylinder walls.

[theurgy]

Also a good spray of the air compressor into the cylinder could help to clear that up.

[jucca]

Just done valve cleaning, along with IC, manifold and throttle body wash.
For everyone who haven't clean his valve yet, look at almost free 40WHP gain, get the job done ASAP
Mine 6s is 95.000miles