Air Bags Or KW V2s?

[WhiteWidow]

Would KW V2s 7007 models or air bag system be better performing? Or would air bags just be overkill? I kinda like the idea to lift my car up and down when needed tbh. But what kind of price do they offer on such a thing for my MS6?

[silvapain]

I can't recall anyone who has done airbags on a car on MSF.

[PPD369Speed3]

Originally Posted by WhiteWidow Would KW V2s 7007 models or air bag system be better performing? Or would air bags just be overkill? I kinda like the idea to lift my car up and down when needed tbh. But what kind of price do they offer on such a thing for my MS6?

Airbags are for stancefags.

If your asking that question you belong on Mazda247.

Bye bye

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

[WhiteWidow]

Really.... As much as I do for the mazdaspeed community and I have never gone to their forums in my life. And you already want me to go away? Fuck off. I was asking a question. I didn't say I was doing it Goddamn.

[lilred]

Good ol msf for ya...

tapafuck

[PPD369Speed3]

Just saying, they probably have guys who have air bags installed. Like @silvapain; said, no one that I know of on msf has airbags.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

[WhiteWidow]

OK thanks that's all I needed to know. If no one else has them, then I sure as ain't gonna be the tester. I just want my car to perform right. I didn't have any knowledge on air bags. I know you guys know your stuff, so I came here to ask is all. Thank You PPD3 for the 2nd response =P I guess KW V2s it is!

[Lex]

@Tomas; has ran airbags in his MS3 as well as @bioevolve;

The KWs are your best bet for performance over the airbags.

[Sid3wayS]

I think it really depends on what you are trying to acomplish really. If the lows is what calls you then nothing makes your frame scrape like bags. They are also helpfull on the 1/4. Around a track, I believe coilovers are the best way to go.

[Chimmike]

Tomas, as of the spring, was on stock springs and Koni struts, but he's a MS3.

OP is ms6. I didn't know they made KW's for ms6.

[WhiteWidow]

kw15275007 V2 is the model for our Mazda 6 wagon. They are a lil stronger in the rear for this model over the KW 15275005 which is for the normal 6 or mazdaspeed6.

[nyghtryder]

if your looking for your car to be able to sit on the ground and have 8-12" of travel then youd be better off with air cylinders. they will handle well if done right. actual airbags would take a lot of room and may rub depending on tire size.

the v2's are never going to disappoint for street/strip use.

the bags that lex is referring to are airlift helper bags that will give you an 1-2" of adjustability. they only fit inside of the rear coil on the ms3 not sure about the ms6.

hope this helps

[Mazdazilla6]

I have bags for my rear springs (still need to put them in). They are not stance bags. They are bags that fit in the rear springs to stiffen the springs. Here's a thread about them Uhhhhh Air Lift Kit 1000

No one here runs stance bags. IMO get a good pair of coils you can still adjust them for spring and winter and any other time you need to adjust them ie track events and what not.

[Don06speed6]

I think Rich from Richtune or one of those DC guys run airbags in the rear. While they are not strictly for suspension they are still used on the platform. Ops question is semi valid don't beat him up too bad.

[dawgincustoms]

Nate I have been looking into a bag for a helper inside the rear spring. That way at the strip you can adjust to keep the ass end from squatting. Once I get the GTX on mine I am gonna play with spring rubbers too. Hoping to get the KW's by then. My use for bags would be all about weight transfer on the launch to keep traction and not put to much strain on the rear diff by really loading it up. With both our cars on brass shift forks and billit PTO caps the rear diff will be the weak point.

[nyghtryder]

Originally Posted by dawgincustoms Nate I have been looking into a bag for a helper inside the rear spring. That way at the strip you can adjust to keep the ass end from squatting. Once I get the GTX on mine I am gonna play with spring rubbers too. Hoping to get the KW's by then. My use for bags would be all about weight transfer on the launch to keep traction and not put to much strain on the rear diff by really loading it up. With both our cars on brass shift forks and billit PTO caps the rear diff will be the weak point.

Then you want the airlift 1000 kit

[PapaSmurf]

dont listen to anyone saying "airbags are for stance", not all airbags are just for show.

check out

Air Lift Performance | Performance Air Suspension Systems

my buddy has a kit on his sti and it is the most stiff suspension I have ever drove in, car rides literally on rails, not that comfortable to DD but it isnt his DD. He backs it up with a gtx3076 on 32psi. Fun car for sure.

Youre going to pay a decent amount of money though for a good kit.

[2.0t03speed]

whats funny @PapaSmurf; is i just watched this last night. They make a kit for the 3.

[magicka]

Those Air Lift kits are pretty badass, and I've seen some good reviews of them on other platforms. The newer bag systems really try to do it all, not just lay frame. The flexibility is tempting.

They're also about 4x the cost of a set of V2's, so I don't see them in my future.

[zenit]

raising/lowering your car will effect both front and rear toe pretty dramatically.

Set the toe on a lift, and you're going to have to have a really toed out front(depending on lift) and toed in rear when lowered.
Set toe when lowered, and you can reverse the situation.

[khyron65]

Originally Posted by zenit raising/lowering your car will effect both front and rear toe pretty dramatically. Set the toe on a lift, and you're going to have to have a really toed Out front and toed in rear when lowered. Set toe when lowered, and you can reverse the situation.

I heard good things from some performance sites about the airlift system. They are suppose to handle awesome. The way they where explained to me is you have one setting which would be you "main" setting, the one you race with etc. You would only lift it to go over bumps and you would lay frame when you parked it to "be cool" so you arent constantly screwing with the system so you dont have to screw with the camber etc. Basically they are like coils except for the ability to raise the car at will to make it over bumps and shit.

I would love to get this system so I can moonlight as a stance fag!

[zenit]

Originally Posted by khyron65 I heard good things from some performance sites about the airlift system. They are suppose to handle awesome. The way they where explained to me is you have one setting which would be you "main" setting, the one you race with etc. You would only lift it to go over bumps and you would lay frame when you parked it to "be cool" so you arent constantly screwing with the system so you dont have to screw with the camber etc. Basically they are like coils except for the ability to raise the car at will to make it over bumps and shit. I would love to get this system so I can moonlight as a stance fag!

That might work with other cars, but the front end our car can't tolerate too much more than the stock drop without being detrimental to front end performance. See the recommended drop for the MS coilovers.

If you can't get over speed bumps- you are too low to be on the street period. I'm not sure what else you're trying to get over unless you live in the boonies.

Originally Posted by khyron65 I would love to get this system so I can moonlight as a stance fag!

I'm all for innovative tech, and I do think this is a cool (and expensive!) product - but ^this is only reason to buy.

[khyron65]

Originally Posted by zenit That might work with other cars, but the front end our car can't tolerate too much more than the stock drop without being detrimental to front end performance. See the recommended drop for the MS coilovers. If you can't get over speed bumps- you are too low to be on the street period. I'm not sure what else you're trying to get over unless you live in the boonies. I'm all for innovative tech, and I do think this is a cool (and expensive!) product - but ^this is only reason to buy.

Don't know about that. I run coils and I don't think I have to extreme of a drop and I bang my lip every once in awhile going over bumps and pulling into certain driveways if I am not careful. I am a fat ass though coils are cheaper, tried and true so unless you got money to burn I say go with coils. I was just pointing out air bags are not just for stance fan boys anymore.

Sent from my Motorola StarTac

[Design]

It's tough to knock air suspension. The technology these days is a notch above traditional "coilovers." Here's a good write-up between the two. My only gripe is projected reliability:
Coilovers Vs Air Suspension - European Car Magazine


BTW - It would be nice to see the community refer to it as "air suspension" or "air springs" vs. "air bags." For the newbies, here's more about how it works:

How It Works: Air Ride Suspension - YouTube

How It Works: Air Ride Suspension - YouTube

[phate]

wtf coilover kits were they using in that airlift "comparison"? Stance? I have a suspicion that an equivalently priced coilover setup would lay waste to an air suspension setup, because that's easily in the custom-tailored coilover range.

Just did a quick search on sccaforums and I come up with absolutely no results for anyone using air suspension, except for in their tow vehicles, lol. I think that says quite a bit.

[Design]

^^ The article I referenced above addresses a lot of those questions. In short, it's a more versatile system at the expense of complexity.

The technology is still in its infancy. I expect it will become more popular is it trickles into the 3K price range.

[JgamB]

There's definitely a thread around here somewhere with some airbags that work for our cars - it was for 1/4 mile duty to keep the weight up front, not "stance". The also showed themselves pulling a U-haul for their true intended purpose.


Yeah, this one.

[TrePaul86]

MSF community and the immediate hate haha.. Classic… I would talk to Airlift Company and AccuAir… They would be the ones to design the kit for a 6… They've done plenty of kits for AWD cars.

[sidekick]

Ultimate Track Car Challenge - Air Lift Performance Bagged Subaru STi @ 2012 - YouTube

Ultimate Track Car Challenge - Air Lift Performance Bagged Subaru STi @ 2012 - YouTube

EDIT: Above video does a much better job of showing what air suspension is capable of... How can you say no to practically infinite adjustabilty and the ability to hang on the track? If your goal is to be the absolute fastest car out there, then get coilovers. If you want to have the adjustability to lay frame and still hang at the track, air is the winner without a doubt.

[itzjustme407]

Air beats coils if done right. If serious try a bag over coil setup so you can have dampening adjustable shocks and struts and the bag replaces the coil spring. It is much cheaper than a airlift kit and will ride better with adjustable shocks and struts. Get an e level system with 3 settings one for daily driving one for track and one for stance. I know so many people with bags and most never go back to coils. If your car is adedicated track car than you good.

[WhiteWidow]

*Update* Well I have since started working for XTR now, so I just went ahead and picked up some KW V2s. If it doesn't work I might do airbags in the rear for the track but I doubt it. Thanks for all the input and videos. Appreciated!

[phate]

Originally Posted by WhiteWidow *Update* Well I have since started working for XTR now, so I just went ahead and picked up some KW V2s. If it doesn't work I might do airbags in the rear for the track but I doubt it. Thanks for all the input and videos. Appreciated!

KW V2's are made for the regular 6 and have some pretty sad spring rates if you're looking for real performance.

Edit: I couldn't remember what the rates for that kit is, so I just called KW. They're progressive all the way around

[WhiteWidow]

I got the wagon version did that help? lol

[phate]

Nope.

[silvapain]

Why do you not like progressive rate springs @phate;?


Tappin it

[Design]

That's a bit misleading. They are mildly progressive but exhibit a linear behavior when compressed at static height. In fact, most MS6/MS3 springs are designed that way.

[phate]

Originally Posted by silvapain Why do you not like progressive rate springs phate? Tappin it

Mainly for consistency and predictability. I'm a pretty consistent driver, but getting the car to do what I want it to do is not always possible (progressives on the car right now). I've learned to drive around it, but I'm pretty sure I'll be faster with a more predictable car.