EVO Brembos on a MS6

[MATT DAMOND]

Going from this:




To this:






Even before I bought my MS6, I was kinda distraught that Mazda was not going to be using 4 piston front calipers on the MS6. Evos, STis, even the Volvo S60Rs all had Brembo brakes from the factory. It seems that the factory Ford brakes for the MS6 were a bit of an afterthought. Don't get me wrong, the stock MS6 are fantastic, though for track duty, I want something more that isn't going to break the bank. I'm just picking up, where Mazda left off.

As a few of you may know, I'm working on a DIY BBK using Mitsubishi Evolution Brembo 4 piston front calipers. After lots of research and a bit of measuring, I purchased some Evo 7 Brembo calipers, in hopes for a near "bolt-on" BBK. I received the calipers in the post the other day, after picking them up off eBay. This evening I did a test fit, to get some measurements for rotors, and to see if I'd run into any issues. Everything went quite well, and I now have a good baseline of what I still need to work on.

First off, there are quite a few similarities between the Evo 6-9 and the MS6 in the brake department. Both use a 12.6" diameter rotor, both have the same wheel bolt pattern, both have the front calipers mounted towards the front of the vehicle, and both have the caliper mount holes on the spindle at a similar distance near 160mm. However, there are also quite a few differences.

The first issue I ran into, is that the caliper is not a direct bolt on. The MS6's caliper mount holes are around 157mm, vs the Evo's at 160mm. That is very close though, and it shouldn't be to difficult to make the Brembo's fit. Here's a pic, showing how the holes don't line up perfectly:




The next issue is that I'm going to have to run some pretty thick wheel spacers. That's not really a concern though, since it was only a matter of time before I bought some, I just have a reason to now.

I have a few other things I have to work on. Finding rotors that will fit perfectly. It is not too difficult, I've got most of my measurements taken, and I'm thinking 2-piece may be the best solution. Also I may have to get some custom brake lines made, which shouldn't be too hard to get done. I haven't tried yet to see if the MS6 lines work, I've got my stock lines laying around, so I'll give that a try soon.

I've still got a lot of work to do, and plenty of testing before I make a "How-to" for this and go over the full details. I'm not trying to do a DIY BBK for looks, I want this for performance. I've seen some pretty bad hacked-up DIY BBKs, and I hoping to learn from their mistakes, and not replicate them.

I do have to thank the Mazda engineers for the close to 160mm mount span, and plenty of suspension, driveline, and dust shield clearance. I know they had big brakes in-mind, when they designed this car.

Enough of me rambling, here's some more pics:










My goal is a well preforming BBK, for under $1,000. If I do not succeeded... Hello StopTech!

[KoukiS14]

You might consider a custom bracket and a set of easily sourced aftermarket calipers like Wilwoods. I've got nice Wilwood Forged Superlite 4 calipers on 350Z track (Brembo) rotors for my 240SX. The calipers are a little over $300 per pair, and the pad selection is great and inexpensive.

[Hectik1]

Man. I didn't think the MS6 calipers were that tiny. The MS3 calipers are pretty beefy compared to those.

Good luck with the install. Evo brakes work very well.

[mdd5148]

Glad to see someone is doing this finally. Good to know the mount measurements... I was thinking of picking up a single cts-v caliper to see how far off it is from fitting but those are 130mm so that would require some bracket.

Also will you be fitting the rear brembos?

[MATT DAMOND]

Originally Posted by KoukiS14 You might consider a custom bracket and a set of easily sourced aftermarket calipers like Wilwoods. I've got nice Wilwood Forged Superlite 4 calipers on 350Z track (Brembo) rotors for my 240SX. The calipers are a little over $300 per pair, and the pad selection is great and inexpensive.

I was originally going to use Wilwood calipers, but I'm not too big a fan of their caliper design. I'm trying not to have to design a bracket. If I were to, I would just buy radial mount calipers, and design and make the brackets. Plus I have even more pad options with the Brembos. I'm most likely going to use Wilwood 2-piece rotors though.

Originally Posted by Hectik1 Man. I didn't think the MS6 calipers were that tiny. The MS3 calipers are pretty beefy compared to those. Good luck with the install. Evo brakes work very well.

Your calipers are close to the size of the Brembos, which is good for heat dissipation on the track. I was thinking of just bolting up MS3 calipers, but unfortunately they won't work.

Wanna go for a ride when I'm done? lol

Originally Posted by mdd5148 Glad to see someone is doing this finally. Good to know the mount measurements... I was thinking of picking up a single cts-v caliper to see how far off it is from fitting but those are 130mm so that would require some bracket. Also will you be fitting the rear brembos?

I'm not going to be fitting Brembos in the rear, since I want to retain the factory e-brake. However, I'm looking into upgrading the rears as well. I just want a vented rotor back there, and have the e-brake still incorporated in the caliper. Right now, I'm doing some research, and I'm going to get some measurements of the RX8 rear calipers. I'll most likely have to go 2-piece rotors in the rear as well, since it's slim pickins for large thin vented rotors.

If I need to, I'm also going to upgrade the master cylinder and proportioning valve.

[Lex]

You mentioned Volvo. Any change the S60R calipers bolt on?

Any spacing issues between there the caliper sits and how it fits over the disc?

[Nataphen]

Very interesting stuff. Sub

[triplejumper18]

Here are the Centric replacement caliper parts for the 2005 S60R

Front Left:

ELECTRONIC CATALOG - MULTIMEDIA FORM

Rear Left:

ELECTRONIC CATALOG - MULTIMEDIA FORM

[Hectik1]

Originally Posted by MATT DAMOND Your calipers are close to the size of the Brembos, which is good for heat dissipation on the track. I was thinking of just bolting up MS3 calipers, but unfortunately they won't work. Wanna go for a ride when I'm done? lol

Hell yeah I want to go for a ride!

[volodya84]

keep us updated please. If you work something out, let me know.

[MSP611]

very interesting... super interested in doing this if it comes out well

[dave_PEI]

very interesting! i didnt realize our brakes were that small either! i'll be keeping an eye on this too

[Markspd6]

I dont think our brakes are that small.. thats just the 2 tone paint job it makes them look smaller.. but, yeah for the price of this car upgraded brakes should have been here to start.. im more curious about the volvo fitment? those look they might make it on? maybe?

[AmillieMS6]

damn you werent kidding? im surprised you actually went along with this

[MATT DAMOND]

Originally Posted by Lex You mentioned Volvo. Any change the S60R calipers bolt on? Any spacing issues between there the caliper sits and how it fits over the disc?

As far as the Volvo calipers go, I'm going to email a company who made a bracket for them to fit an older Volvo model, and see if they'll let me know the spacing. They do "look" identical to the Evo mount spacing, but IDK. I'll also look into the the spacing of the holes for the rear calipers, since they might be a closer fit for the MS3.

I was originally going to use the Volvo calipers, since I can get both fronts for under $500 new.

I'm going to have to use probably a 2-piece rotor because how the rotor meets with the calipers. I cannot use MS6 discs, since they are too thin. I cannot use Evo or STi discs, since their diameters are a few mm too small, I'd have to get the center hub hole drilled out too, but that wouldn't be too big of an issue. I'm still researching to find a cheaper non 2-piece solution. Ferrari 360 Modena discs have close to perfect dimensions for what I need, but I'll have to get the wheel stud holes drilled out, since Ferrari's bolt pattern in 108mm.

Originally Posted by AmillieMS6 damn you werent kidding? im surprised you actually went along with this

I'm always serious. Except when I talk to you. lulz

[MSP611]

damn puttin some thought into this. ferrari 360 rotors dont u think those woudl cost some extra big greenbacks?

[MATT DAMOND]

Yeah the Ferrari rotors may be out of the question, since they are impossible to find, and when I do, they're expensive.

I did however find some rotors that match my specs very well, they're almost identical for what I need. Unfortunately, they're a bit tricky to find, since they're off an Alfa Romeo, but they're cheaper than MS6 rotors.

I'm going to double check my specs I've gathered, re-mount up the caliper and re-measure again, before I start buying more shit.

[MSP611]

good idea like pops always says measure twice cut once... lol keep us updated

[Lex]

The Volvo ones may be of extra interest since if they bolt onto the ears, they may allow you to use a Volvo disc to match.

[Dark]

Updates?

[Jedyboyrokr]

updates?

[Nataphen]

No updates, guys. Haven't you heard? Matt's making '99 Toyota Camry OCC and brake kits now.

[MSP611]

WTF y? Does camry have mean breaks?

[MATT DAMOND]

No updates, I'm selling the MS6 soon, and I've pretty much stopped work on this project. If anyone wants the calipers send me a PM.

Originally Posted by Nataphen No updates, guys. Haven't you heard? Matt's making '99 Toyota Camry OCC and brake kits now.

lmao, I was actually thinking of upgrading the brakes on the camry, since there are a lot of direct bolt-on options. But... my goal is to keep that car alive, for as little money as possible.

[bbjoy]

nicce

[Matx]

really WTF... why you selling it? just delete this whole thing!!!!!!!!

[06speedemon]

Would have been sweet if you got it to work Matt.

[Tomas]

I would like to continue this project but transfer it to an MS3 if at all possible
Questions:

1. What is the hole mount distance on an MS3 if anyone knows?
2. Is the offset of the brake discs on the MS6 the same as the MS3? Are the MS6 discs only larger in diameter? If disc thickness is 28 or 32mm should be OK either way I think.
3. What is the distance from the outer surface of the brake disc to the outer surface of the caliper? I am assuming clearance to the inside of the car is OK since the MS3 calipers are fat as hell and go about 2-3" to the inside. I would also assume the length of the calipers will clear 18" wheels since you probably tried it?
4. How much for the calipers shipped to Florida?

[foney_email]

What a disappointment. I was really hoping this project would see a finale. Oh well. Who will make the easy big brake upgrade alternative now. (cheap too)

[MATT DAMOND]

Oaky, since everyone is bitching that I never got around to finishing this, here's some info in hopes that someone else will.

The MS6 stock brake lines will work perfectly. The connections are the same size between the stock and brembo calipers. Here's a pic, I'm sure the orientation of the line will be slightly different if the caliper were mounted:





The rotors I was planning on using were newer Alfa Romeo 159 rotors, where brembo calipers were used. The measurements I took were almost exact to these rotor specs. The only issue, is that the bolt pattern for Alfa Romeo's is 5 X 110, so new holes would have to be machined to Mazda's 5 X 114.5. Also the center hole might be 1mm too small, but that's not a big deal.

Now someone else go try this.

Originally Posted by Tomas I would like to continue this project but transfer it to an MS3 if at all possible Questions: 1. What is the hole mount distance on an MS3 if anyone knows? 2. Is the offset of the brake discs on the MS6 the same as the MS3? Are the MS6 discs only larger in diameter? If disc thickness is 28 or 32mm should be OK either way I think. 3. What is the distance from the outer surface of the brake disc to the outer surface of the caliper? I am assuming clearance to the inside of the car is OK since the MS3 calipers are fat as hell and go about 2-3" to the inside. I would also assume the length of the calipers will clear 18" wheels since you probably tried it? 4. How much for the calipers shipped to Florida?

1. MS3 caliper bolt span is something like 140mm, you'd need to make a bracket for these calipers to work.
2. I wouldn't be using MS6 discs, since they are too thin, MS3 discs are almost identical, apart from being like 1mm taller IIRC. You have to use a custom disc, or one off another car.
3. it's probably around 2-3", but I'd still have to
4. I kinda want to keep them, for a future project, since the calipers have little miles on them(the paint is shit though). But, I'd prob take like $300 shipped for them.

[Tomas]

ok, thanks.
Since the bolt span is not even close I think trying this on an MS3 is too much hassle.

[Burn69]

Dayum that sux.

[:: Gusto ::]

ohhh nice...

finish it.. so i can copy u.. hahah

[speed666]

fit for oem wheels? more picture

[Markspd6]

bummer so much hope..

[jdcms6]

TEASED!!! lol just kidding... that was a good idea project you started. My brother has an evo x and I've been thinking since I bought my ms6 about the brembos

[paveltol]

here are mine
355mm slotted discs with lightweight central part, 4-piston JBT calipers
working perfectly for two years already

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by paveltol here are mine 355mm slotted discs with lightweight central part, 4-piston JBT calipers working perfectly for two years already

Nice! What brand and how much did they run you?

[paveltol]

Originally Posted by Alpha Nice! What brand and how much did they run you?

These are the JBT brake kit. JBT BRAKE SYSTEM There are two options for MS6 front axte: 4 and 6-piston calipers(6 pistons shown below). 4 piston calipers come with 355mm rotors and 6 piston calipers usually come with 380mm rotors. As for me, I'd recommend you installing the 4 piston calipers not only because they are cheaper and fit the OEM wheels(the 5-6mm wheel spacer required), but because the 6 piston calipers tend to overheat and deform the rotors if you drive fast. 355mm + 4 piston version is better cooled, yet when the outside temp is about 77+F, you need additional air supply to cool the brakes in order to have good decelerations without damaging the system.
I've driven more than 20k miles on 4 piston JBTs and still like them.
The prices for them here in Russia are 2000$ for the 4 piston version. That hurts( Yet, the Brembos cost even more here.
F%cking Moscow city(

[Alpha]

Wow! Great info, thanks! Pricey, bit the do look awesome!