FSB install question

[speedster3_08.5]

Ok, I am thinking about getting a FSB and RSB and from reading on the forum it appears that the FSB install is hard.
Why is the install so hard?

Can I use car jacks or do I need ramps for this?

If I do use jacks(that is what I own) do I need to place some kind of board underneath the tires so the front suspension is actually engaged and working?

I have skimmed the instructions on how to install this and it says that you need to jack the engine? Am I reading this wrong and this kind of worries me, I don't want to be under there and have the damn thing fall on me.

Also I know I could have these put on but I like to do my own work.

Anyways, thanks for the help

[Lymerock]

can do it on jackstands easily
need to drop the subframe, thats the tricky part if there is one
I also unbolt the steering rack so there is no stress on that when you drop the subframe

it may be a bit tight to get the end links on with the suspension dropped, but its not that hard

[Demi]

So im a noob clearly, whats a subframe?

[SLS MS3]

Originally Posted by Demi So im a noob clearly, whats a subframe?

In this case, it's the sub-structure that isolates the engine/drivetrain from the frame of the car. A subframe is used to help isolate the vibrations caused by the engine/drivetrain from the rest of the car.

[saitek]

I never did any suspension work before putting on the sway. The directions are pretty good. There might be a how-to floating around. Shop manual helps too. Took me 2.5 hours with a buddy I think. Breaker bar, different type of extension will make life easier.

[soul.survivor]

It's a huge pain in the ass. This is the first time I did anything this tough on a car and it took me way too long. I did it by myself though, with a helper it should be a lot easier, especially at the end.

You take off the exhaust hangers and take out the rear engine mount bolt, then the end link nuts. You then have to put it on jack stands, take the wheels off, break the two bolts that connect the sub frame behind the wheels loose. I put the wheels back on before I removed the bolts on the bottom because I don't want to lay under a car that isn't well supported when I'm prying and breaking loose bolts. I don't trust jack stands at all. Then you need to take out 2 large bolts and two small black bolts on the bottom of the car, removing the bracket that holds the sub frame up when the large bolts are removed. I then pushed the tires up to the front of the wheel well as far as I could to allow more room, it is the only way I could get the new bar in.

Taking it apart isn't that bad if you have the right tools, including a 14mm, 17mm, 19mm and 21mm socket and a torque wrench. A variety of socket extensions is good too, as are the torque specs. You also need an open ended 17mm wrench or vortex socket so you can put the 5mm allen wrench in the bolt when you loosen and tighten the end link nuts. And don't jack the car up from the sub frame around the engine mount, you will flatten the sub frame. I speak from experience.

You need green and red loctite, you can see it on the bolts when you take them out. The hotchkis kit comes with blue. I also had to use thread tape on the grease fittings on the new brackets, one wasn't even screwed in all the way when I got the kit. And you should probably tie wrap the power steering lines together.

Getting the new sway in is pretty tricky, you have to get one side over the tie rod first then slip the other side up and around. The brackets slide as far toward the rear as you can get them. You have to torque the hell out of all those bolts when you put them back in and I had to use the scissor jack to push the sub frame into alignment. On my car the bolts behind the wheels are still 1mm to the left of where they should be. I couldn't get them in place to save my life. There's no way to apply enough force sideways to line them up without help from a buddy and a pry bar. I'll never do that again.

That said, it corners like it's on rails now and I haven't had any understeer. Turn in seems quicker and there's not really any body roll. If you're going to do this I'd recommend doing both or you'll end up with an unbalanced ride. I had the rear only on for one day and you could feel the front roll around and the back was trying to break loose. I didn't like it. Now it's very balanced and I can tell that the stock springs are limiting what I can do with it.

Looking back I should've paid someone to do this and gone into work, I would've ended up ahead.

[speedster3_08.5]

geeze

Do the instructions come with the torque specs?
Also why tie wrap the power steering lines, are they not that way initially?

[soul.survivor]

torque specs:

rear mount: up to 93.1 to 116.6 Nm
end link nuts: 42.3 to 60.1 Nm
bolts for sway bar brackets: 40.3 to 53.9 Nm
sub frame bolts behind the wheels: 86.3 to 116.6 Nm
sub frame bolts on bottom: 133.5 to 176.5 Nm
bolts on bracket that the bottom bolt goes through: no idea, I went with 60 Nm cause they really don't do much.

for the location of the bolts on the bottom of the car, check out the gtspec brace thread, you can see the brackets on each side of the brace. The ones behind the wheels have large washers with points on the edges, hard to miss.

I just tie wrapped the power steering hoses because I read others saying to do it, wasn't that hard. Supposedly they'll hit the sway bar if you don't. Mine doesn't make any noise so I'm guessing it isn't hitting anything.

[Corzy]

Very well put soul.

The first time I did the FSB for my car, I was expecting it to take a couple hours. I started it at 8PM and didn't finish till 3AM. It was a nightmare, but that's because we didn't have any of the right tools. Now I have every tool I need before I start anything like this.