Koni Yellows

[martin_nj]

Bought some Koni Yellow's off eBay the other day. Quick shipping, decent price, $635 shipped. I know there were some better deals but few people have them in stock now.

Did the rears in 15min, quick and easy ... At three years and 50,000 miles my rear driver side had NO OIL in it whatsoever. I knew they were in bad shape haha but to have leaked all the oil out is terrible.

The fronts too forever. Biggest issue was spreading open the bottom clamp and then getting the new shock to snug up tight.

Reviews after one day are positive: Huge improvement in ride quality, cabin noise, and steering wheel shake.

I'll get them out on the track as soon as I can afford a track day but they should be wonderful!

[Wolfgang5884]

are you lowered?

[captain slow]

Steering wheel shake? Was it bad beforehand or something? I want to pick these up, but dread the install.

[martin_nj]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang5884 are you lowered?

good question. nope. went with stock springs. so was 100% oem now to just koni shocks.

Originally Posted by freundb Steering wheel shake? Was it bad beforehand or something? I want to pick these up, but dread the install.

i wouldn't say it was bad but what i thought was a poorly balanced tire was actually the crap oem shocks. total install time for me was 6 hours ... with a lunch break and a trip to pep boys for a bump stop.


speaking of bump stops - all of mine were in good shape except 1. i bought a generic one from pep and cut it down to the right length.

[Danish]

Any reason you went with Koni Yellows instead of Bilsteins?

[martin_nj]

price was a factor...

also i have heard/read the koni's are the only ones with MS3 specific dampening... everything else is shared with another platform (either the mazda5, or volvo s40, etc)

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by martin_nj price was a factor... also i have heard/read the koni's are the only ones with MS3 specific dampening... everything else is shared with another platform (either the mazda5, or volvo s40, etc)

The Koni MS3 kits are all "parts-bin kits", IIRC.

Rears are from the Mazda5, fronts are from the regular Mazda3. That goes for both the Sports (Yellows) and the FSDs.

[martin_nj]

i know the shock and strut are - but i was under the impression the dampening inside was ms3 specific. again, this is all 3rd party talk... i didn't call up koni to confirm

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by martin_nj i know the shock and strut are - but i was under the impression the dampening inside was ms3 specific. again, this is all 3rd party talk... i didn't call up koni to confirm

The damping circuits are what I'm talking about...

Again -

Koni took front struts from the Mazda 3 kits and rear shocks from the Mazda 5 kits and called them "MS3-specific" kits.

This came from @Lee Grimes (who also happens to be a member here) at Koni America.

[martin_nj]

ahh that "dampens" my day... haha get it? dampens? shocks?

[Nliiitend1]

Don't let it take the pep out of your strut.

[martin_nj]

i'll rebound from this somehow

[Danish]

My front end is getting higher just listening to all this.

[andrewpiro]

You guys are so punny.

[Design]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 The damping circuits are what I'm talking about... Again - Koni took front struts from the Mazda 3 kits and rear shocks from the Mazda 5 kits and called them "MS3-specific" kits. This came from @Lee Grimes (who also happens to be a member here) at Koni America.

To clarify, there are no Mazda 3 components. Koni took the entire Mazda 5 product lineup and extended them to the MS3. The only difference is 10% more rebound damping. Thread is here:
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...41/#post509138

EDIT: 20% more rebound and shorter bodies according to the thread.

[fooqr]

Freaky! I did this exact same install on my car at 52k miles this weekend. My rear shocks had been leaving puddles (!) of oil on the ground, and my car had become extremely unstable. It turns out that when you hit the tiniest bump on the road during a turn with no shocks, your wheels bounce off the ground and every time they lift you stop turning momentarily. Who knew?!? Effect is extremely disconcerting, very jittery in turns! So, I did the rears a couple of weekends ago, and they were a breeze. Didn't notice any problem with the fronts, but I wanted to swap out the full set with Koni yellows, so I did the front struts this past weekend.

Used the excellent writeup here:
Koni FSD shock, strut, damper install

Took me ages! I spent about 6 hours on the driver's side alone, because I was afraid of hurting something. Once I figured it out, passenger side took another hour or two.

Driver's side OEM strut was stuck in the steering knuckle. Took a lot pf PB Blaster and downward force to get it out.

Here's what I learned from the experience. The advice about the steering knuckle spreading trick was good, but don't use an actual quarter. It's too soft. (I'll save it and tell my grandkids about the time I shot a bullet through a quarter.) I ended up using a stubby flat screwdriver, and that worked well.

To get the bottom of the struts out of the steering knuckle, I left the top attached, spread open the bottom, and, with a jack positioned underneath the control arm to prevent it from dropping more than necessary (i.e., leaving a couple of inches gap until the control arm would rest on the jack), I ended up stomping on the rotor (I know, I know, but I'm due to replace those soon anyway) until the strut worked its way free. I tried a bunch of other advice first that didn't do jack. This is what worked for me.

So far, I really like the new feel. Agree with Martin on all counts. Like him, I thought I had alignment issues that were actually due to the struts. I'm not lowered, either, and reused the original springs. (I compressed them with hand tools and a $35 spring compressor from Advance Auto Parts, and it wasn't as bad as everyone warns. Just takes some elbow grease.) I had no steering wheel shake beforehand, and still don't. My rear bump stops were fine, but both fronts were cracked and hardened at the bottom. I was too lazy to go to the store at that point, so I just ripped off the entire bottom "ring" on both and reinstalled. What can go wrong, right? Hadn't noticed the soft ride until I put in the Koni fronts. Ride was rock solid but a bit harsh with the dial turned a full turn (++). That setting would inspire confidence at the track, but bad for daily driving. At the softest setting, it's probably close to stock, maybe a tad softer.

[martin_nj]

yah one full turn was too harsh for daily i'm currently at 1.5 turns from full hard.

always turn to full hard and then reset the dial

[stp]

Originally Posted by fooqr To get the bottom of the struts out of the steering knuckle, I left the top attached, spread open the bottom, and, with a jack positioned underneath the control arm to prevent it from dropping more than necessary (i.e., leaving a couple of inches gap until the control arm would rest on the jack), I ended up stomping on the rotor (I know, I know, but I'm due to replace those soon anyway) until the strut worked its way free. I tried a bunch of other advice first that didn't do jack. This is what worked for me.

I used 2x4's to prop up the top of the strut and a 4lb sledgehammer to the knuckle to get it off it.

[martin_nj]

i used a wiggle maneuver - def worked up a sweat getting it out of there tho

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Design To clarify, there are no Mazda 3 components. Koni took the entire Mazda 5 product lineup and extended them to the MS3. The only difference is 10% more rebound damping. Thread is here: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...41/#post509138

Gotcha. I was under the impression that the MZ5 kits already used the same front dampers as the MZ3 kits.

[ALIEN3T]

Originally Posted by stp I used 2x4's to prop up the top of the strut and a 4lb sledgehammer to the knuckle to get it off it.

HEre usually a chissle tapped in the back to spread the nuckle, then soem wd40. and a sledge to knock on the kncukle its its almost off, then by hand push the rest fo the way off.

USually about 5 mins to get it off.

[daafisch]

I used the scissor jack. Put it in between the knuckle and the spring perch.

Glad to see you got new shocks/struts.

[Danish]

Originally Posted by martin_nj i used a wiggle maneuver - def worked up a sweat getting it out of there tho

That's what she said.

[fooqr]

Originally Posted by daafisch I used the scissor jack. Put it in between the knuckle and the spring perch.

I tried that, too, but I couldn't find a good place to seat the jack on the knuckle. Under pressure, the jack kept creeping down toward the outside of the car and would start pressing on the inside of the brake rotor. Since that's not held on by anything with the wheel off, I didn't want to keep applying pressure. Yes, I could have screwed the lug nuts back on. No, I didn't think of that at the time.

Right, so, I stomped on it instead. For some reason that didn't scare me. I dunno, wasn't thinking clearly by that point, I guess.

We should compile a list of all the creative ways members have found to get their struts out. $50 for anyone who can document (video) doing it with a branch and a pair of hedge clippers.

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by fooqr I tried that, too, but I couldn't find a good place to seat the jack on the knuckle. Under pressure, the jack kept creeping down toward the outside of the car and would start pressing on the inside of the brake rotor. Since that's not held on by anything with the wheel off, I didn't want to keep applying pressure. Yes, I could have screwed the lug nuts back on. No, I didn't think of that at the time. Right, so, I stomped on it instead. For some reason that didn't scare me. I dunno, wasn't thinking clearly by that point, I guess. We should compile a list of all the creative ways members have found to get their struts out. $50 for anyone who can document (video) doing it with a branch and a pair of hedge clippers.

I think I just used my hand to keep it on the knuckle but it was a while ago so I don't really remember.

[Boother]

I did the Koni/stock springs in May and have fallen in love with the car all over again. Best mod by far.

It was a bitch to do the front struts and getting them fully seated in the knuckle.

[breakfstincluded]

That's funny, at 27K miles I just started leaking in the rear (lol) too.

Going with FSD's since my uses are pretty daily, and i can't afford to go lower ride height.

Still shopping on prices and availability, would be cool if edge motorsport carried them.

Little nervous on installation, I'm guessing it doesn't come with instructions and I'll be using my imagination on the pictures that are gone from the install thread here on MSF.

I really hope I can tackle it though, i got a quote for installation that would be 340 before alignment (which I won't be doing myself either way).

[martin_nj]

@breakfstincluded koni yellows are good for oem springs... with the FSDs you'll need to muck around with the bump stops

[breakfstincluded]

Yes I read about the cutting involved, still a lttile unclear to me on what this remedys or what happens if you don't do it.

Looked at FatCat bump stop replacements which would be another 130$
Fat Cat Motorsports - Koni products - Mazda 3 / Mazdaspeed 3

If there was a difference in durability/longevity between yellows and FSD's that would be my top priority besides stock ride height

[Nliiitend1]

Ground Control sells stops that many others have had success with for significantly less $$.

[vickaturr]

Does Koni make coilovers? Sorry I'm nooooob

[breakfstincluded]

I better check the ground control site again then, I think I had trouble finding them because I thought they'd be listed as MS3 specific... will double check

Ohhh found them... and now to decide which... Will go with most tame one for DD. damn that's signif8icantly cheaper... is there something I have to buy to use these with?

The fat cat kit comes with so much more stuff that I don't know what are even for yet lol

[kwsmithphoto]

Yes I read about the cutting involved, still a lttile unclear to me on what this remedys or what happens if you don't do it.

FSD's need travel, and the front bump stops limit it (until they self destruct). The way they are designed, FSD's vary the flow of fluid through the rebound damper in response to inputs from the road. For example, if you hit a sharp bump (high frequency) the FSD valve opens which quickly lets the wheel drop back down to the road, which is great for rough road traction and overall ride quality.

The OEM bump stops are so long that the strut hits them very soon in it's compression stroke, which the FSD valve interprets as a high frequency bump when all you were really doing is driving over a something like a low frequency dip in the road. This leads to some interesting and unwelcome behavior. So, either use a shorter stop or cut the stock one down. In my case I only cut the bottom "bellow" off because they were already mounted, and it works well enough. If I were were starting from scratch I would simply buy a shorter bump stop.

The rear bump stops are a completely different animal. Basically, they act as helper springs to create a progressive spring rate from a linear rate coil and are soft enough to not trip up the FSD valve. Essentially, if you cut or use shorter rear bump stops, you have effectively reduced the car's dynamic rear spring rate and it's load carrying ability. I often have 300-400+ pounds of stuff in the back, and the chassis rests on the rear stops before I've gone anywhere. It's OK though, that's what it's supposed to do.

[breakfstincluded]

Whoa that's great info (:

So basically cut or replace front bump stops and keep rears as they are...

Now to decide if I can install the FSD's myself or if I should pay cobb or cork to do it for me.

Edit: I was reading this about modification of the rear bump stuff, I'd wonder what you think of this if you haven't already saw it.

I'll probably get the fatcats front bump stop kit to go with FSD's so I'm not sure this thread would completely apply to me if I'm not cutting...

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...mp-stop-45695/

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by breakfstincluded Whoa that's great info (: So basically cut or replace front bump stops and keep rears as they are... Now to decide if I can install the FSD's myself or if I should pay cobb or cork to do it for me. Edit: I was reading this about modification of the rear bump stuff, I'd wonder what you think of this if you haven't already saw it. I'll probably get the fatcats front bump stop kit to go with FSD's so I'm not sure this thread would completely apply to me if I'm not cutting... http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...mp-stop-45695/

I'm pretty sure trimming the back bump stop only applied to the original 4040 part number kit designed for the ms3. With the 4045 kit the rear dampers have 20% more rebound (taken from the mazda 5 kit) and don't need that done.

[Boother]

50,000km stock shocks...oil and dirt caked and the nice oil stain on my garage floor from the month I spent living with the blown shock. The funny part is that the shock still had a great gas charge and that only the top oil seal had blown causing the oil to escape.

[fooqr]

Yep. That's what they seem to do. You can set you odometer by when the rear shocks fail in these cars.

[kwsmithphoto]

You could set the odometer back to when the Gen1's were built because they didn't work for shit to begin with. I sensed it almost immediately on the first test drive. But the Mazda store had a bunch of them so I drove 3 to confirm it was endemic to the car.

I replaced all the dampers on my 2009 at 1500 miles. Weeks after the motor broke in, I took it up to some lumpy canyon roads and was having all sorts of problems, culminating in the rear tires bounding off the ground, which caused a serious case of snap oversteer. Behavior like that is bad, especially on public roads - I saved the car, but fuck it was scary, and I could have really hurt someone coming round the bend the other way. Now I drive the same roads much quicker with a much higher margin.

On all but one of the tracks I've driven this car on, it doesn't really matter anyway because they are so smooth that the springs and sway bars are the limiting factor, not the dampers. And there is one local track that has a high speed section that's very bumpy but I catch up to a lot of cars there, because I have more grip than stiffer cars do. The magic of mechanical auto-adjustment.

[kwsmithphoto]

FWIW, FreeFlyFreak, who started the thread linked to above (and a nice how-to that works for any car) is running Bilstein Sports with the stock springs, short front stops, and OEM rear bump stops. Or was, I haven't seem him post lately.

Last I heard he was pleased with the Bilsteins and thought they were a good compromise between 4045 Koni's and the Mazda spec coil overs. Rougher ride than the FSD's, but better than the FSD's for handling. His commute is over a mountain range with big dips and stuff so he seems to be happy with them. As far as I know he didn't even try Koni Sports, probably because threads like this from a few years ago were not encouraging.

FWIW, Lee Grimes runs Koni USA and has a Mazdaspeed3. He uses the 4045 parts. He also tried an experiment mixing FSD's and Sports. Lee is an accomplished road racer but the MS3 is/was his daily drive Last we heard, he tried the Koni Sports with the stock springs but re-installed the FSDs.

I don't mean to speak for either FFF or Lee at Koni, that just the last word I've heard from either of them. Fixing the Gen1 damper suck was a hot topic for a while, and their was much discussion about them dating back a few years. The Koni Sports have left some very picky people unimpressed, so IMO I think it depends on what your priorities are.

But as I said I have more important things to spend money on right now, and don't have any real issues with my (softer rebound) FSD's or my Bridgestone 760's at this time. I can still scare the hell out of my wife and myself, and beat quite a few poseurs in LA with much better cars on paper, as they try to keep up with me but lack the skills. I don't normally street race, but I like smoking rich guys with their spendy cars I can't afford.

Again, I have non-adjustable FSD's spec'd for the normal Mazda3. But 99% of my driving is on shitty LA surface streets and they are very good at that, with cut front bump stops, and an aftermarket rear sway bar. I am rarely the fastest guy in my group on track days but I don't get beat up driving to job sites, and can carry a lot of weight without any real issues.

Edit, this was supposed to be a reply that I saw on my phone but is gone now. I don't normally respond to posts I created.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by kwsmithphoto FWIW, FreeFlyFreak, who started the thread linked to above (and a nice how-to that works for any car) is running Bilstein Sports with the stock springs, short front stops, and OEM rear bump stops. Or was, I haven't seem him post lately. Last I heard he was pleased with the Bilsteins and thought they were a good compromise between 4045 Koni's and the Mazda spec coil overs. Rougher ride than the FSD's, but better than the FSD's for handling. His commute is over a mountain range with big dips and stuff so he seems to be happy with them. As far as I know he didn't even try Koni Sports, probably because threads like this from a few years ago were not encouraging. FWIW, Lee Grimes runs Koni USA and has a Mazdaspeed3. He uses the 4045 parts. He also tried an experiment mixing FSD's and Sports. Lee is an accomplished road racer but the MS3 is/was his daily drive Last we heard, he tried the Koni Sports with the stock springs but re-installed the FSDs. I don't mean to speak for either FFF or Lee at Koni, that just the last word I've heard from either of them. Fixing the Gen1 damper suck was a hot topic for a while, and their was much discussion about them dating back a few years. The Koni Sports have left some very picky people unimpressed, so IMO I think it depends on what your priorities are. But as I said I have more important things to spend money on right now, and don't have any real issues with my (softer rebound) FSD's or my Bridgestone 760's at this time. I can still scare the hell out of my wife and myself, and beat quite a few poseurs in LA with much better cars on paper, as they try to keep up with me but lack the skills. I don't normally street race, but I like smoking rich guys with their spendy cars I can't afford. Again, I have non-adjustable FSD's spec'd for the normal Mazda3. But 99% of my driving is on shitty LA surface streets and they are very good at that, with cut front bump stops, and an aftermarket rear sway bar. I am rarely the fastest guy in my group on track days but I don't get beat up driving to job sites, and can carry a lot of weight without any real issues. Edit, this was supposed to be a reply that I saw on my phone but is gone now. I don't normally respond to posts I created.

Quick correction:

FFF isn't running cut stops on his front Bilsteins... They're inverted dampers with internal bumpstops.