Mazdaspeed 6 - Spring/Shock combination

[Indianspeed]

So I have searched and searched (maybe I am not using the right keywords, but most results I have found are for the speed3) but cannot find anything conclusive on the best spring/shocks setup.I know coilovers are the shit, but I am not that picky. if some of the guru's can shed some light. I can make up my silly mind and move forward.

Background:
I have stock springs and shocks on the car now and for some reason my car doesn't feel like it holds a curve the way it used to. I am upgrading the FSB and RSB bushings to help combat that but from what I have read springs would help a great deal.

Car:
2006 MS6 with 56k miles on it ( to my best knowledge the shocks have never been changed)

Style of driving:
no auto cross,but a lot of spirited driving

What I am expecting:
1) firmer suspension but not bouncy
2) better cornering
3) little lowered on stock rims and tires

Options:
1) Eibach pro kit with stock shocks.
2) H&R with stock shocks.

I have left RPM's and Autoexe's because they are hard to come by or are very expensive for my cheap ass.

I also have Koni adjdutable's shocks, but if I can get away with using the stock, I would love to stick with it and sell the koni's to buy some other stuff.

Thanks for all the help and If this topic has indeed been concluded I would appreciate it if someone can share the link with me.

[ihasmazda]

I'd probably try bilstein shocks if I was ready to upgrade.

The Official MS6 Suspension Thread

[Mazdazilla6]

You've already got Koni's, keep them. As for springs I would either get Corksport's or find some used Autoexe or RPM.

Mazda 6 Lowering Spring Set

[Indianspeed]

The only reason I havn't looked at corksport is they aren't time tested and I bought the eibachs and then got a irresistible deal on the H&R's.. If someone tell me go with this combo because it works.. I will sell the other...

[Mazdazilla6]

Dude they're springs, time tested doesn't matter as long at they aren't breaking (which they're not). They are the only linear option besides Autoexe and RPM and they have proper spring rates. Eibachs and H&R are too soft IMO. Go with Corksport you won't be sorry.

[Indianspeed]

cool. thank you.

[thehead]

I just put Bilsteins on mine with stock springs and they're pretty nice so far, a bit more firm than stock and it leveled me out a bit (although I'm pretty sure my rears were blown since my front looked jacked up and my rears were sagging). I'm a bit lower than stock now as well. I may be looking into springs as well though but I just don't want a bouncy ride and don't want to be super low since I need to be able to drive through snow without ripping my front bumper and lower spoiler off (again, lol).

[Indianspeed]

I think both my front and rear are blown.. but no leaks.. bouncy and a lot of pitch movement.. feels like its hopping.. but I have a feeling my rmm is giving way too...

Originally Posted by thehead I just put Bilsteins on mine with stock springs and they're pretty nice so far, a bit more firm than stock and it leveled me out a bit (although I'm pretty sure my rears were blown since my front looked jacked up and my rears were sagging). I'm a bit lower than stock now as well. I may be looking into springs as well though but I just don't want a bouncy ride and don't want to be super low since I need to be able to drive through snow without ripping my front bumper and lower spoiler off (again, lol).

[Coaststarlight]

Best Shocks are Koni Yellows and Bilsteins, I've had bolth, I'd say Bilsteins are better

But theres no going wrong with Konis


Eibach, H&Rs are Great Choices, I loved the Eibachs I had, if you really want the best theres also Swift, wich would be a custom order

[Indianspeed]

Originally Posted by Coaststarlight Best Shocks are Koni Yellows and Bilsteins, I've had bolth, I'd say Bilsteins are better But theres no going wrong with Konis Eibach, H&Rs are Great Choices, I loved the Eibachs I had, if you really want the best theres also Swift, wich would be a custom order

I have both eibach and h&r sitting in my garage. Will be using the konis for sure.. But can't decide between the eibach and the h&r..

[Status Update]

Originally Posted by Indianspeed I have both eibach and h&r sitting in my garage. Will be using the konis for sure.. But can't decide between the eibach and the h&r..

I had h&R's on stock shocks and they rode great. If your looking a good drop then the h&rs are the ones for you. I can't speak for the eibachs but I loved my h&r springs but since you have new shocks just replace em while your at it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[phate]

If I was looking at just a spring and shock set up, I would only consider Bilsteins. You can turn them into coilovers later on if you want to, they're very high quality, and a TON of shops can rebuild/revalve them.

For springs, no way I'd run either H&R or Eibach's. They soft...really soft - you'll be riding the bump stops constantly. My first choice would be cut stock springs, then autoexe's, then corksport. Those three options are linear rate with an acceptable rate, unlike the other choices available. They don't drop the car a ton, so you retain a mostly functional suspension, though they are all still too soft to be a true 'performance' set up.

H&R's with bilsteins makes me a little sad:

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

[Indianspeed]

Originally Posted by phate If I was looking at just a spring and shock set up, I would only consider Bilsteins. You can turn them into coilovers later on if you want to, they're very high quality, and a TON of shops can rebuild/revalve them. For springs, no way I'd run either H&R or Eibach's. They soft...really soft - you'll be riding the bump stops constantly. My first choice would be cut stock springs, then autoexe's, then corksport. Those three options are linear rate with an acceptable rate, unlike the other choices available. They don't drop the car a ton, so you retain a mostly functional suspension, though they are all still too soft to be a true 'performance' set up. H&R's with bilsteins makes me a little sad: Mazdaspeed6 Autocross Launch - YouTube

I am looking for something stiffer than stock at the same time don't want sweep the roads.... Apart from the three you mentioned the others lower the car atleast a 1.5".. h&r greater than that from what I read...

[cletusb]

Originally Posted by phate If I was looking at just a spring and shock set up, I would only consider Bilsteins. You can turn them into coilovers later on if you want to, they're very high quality, and a TON of shops can rebuild/revalve them. For springs, no way I'd run either H&R or Eibach's. They soft...really soft - you'll be riding the bump stops constantly. My first choice would be cut stock springs, then autoexe's, then corksport. Those three options are linear rate with an acceptable rate, unlike the other choices available. They don't drop the car a ton, so you retain a mostly functional suspension, though they are all still too soft to be a true 'performance' set up. H&R's with bilsteins makes me a little sad: Mazdaspeed6 Autocross Launch - YouTube

Have you seen the RSR springs?
Couldn't find a proper conversion but the rates are listed as 6.00 kg/mm and 4.04 kg/mm

[phate]

Originally Posted by cletusb Have you seen the RSR springs? Couldn't find a proper conversion but the rates are listed as 6.00 kg/mm and 4.04 kg/mm

I have not. Do you have a link?

Those rates, converted to lb/in, are 336/224. That's ~20% stiffer than stock, so they wouldn't be a bad choice at all. It puts the suspension frequency in the 1.3-1.4Hz range (both front and rear are nearly the same freq). Bilsteins can handle springs up to ~20% stiffer than stock, and I presume Konis could, as well.

[cletusb]

Originally Posted by phate I have not. Do you have a link? Those rates, converted to lb/in, are 336/224. That's ~20% stiffer than stock, so they wouldn't be a bad choice at all. It puts the suspension frequency in the 1.3-1.4Hz range (both front and rear are nearly the same freq). Bilsteins can handle springs up to ~20% stiffer than stock, and I presume Konis could, as well.

Not a direct link but try here
http://www.rs-r.co.jp/e/script/itemsearch/index.html
Either do
Selection type retrieval, Mazda - Atenza - GG3P
OR
Input type retrieval, Model series = GG3P

Generic info here
http://www.rs-r.co.jp/e/products_eng.../rsr/index.php
or
RS-R USA | High Quality and Performance Suspension | Professional Race | Drift | Car Enthusiasts | RANUP

USA distro dosn't seem to get stock for a lot of cars tho


Interested what you think between these and the AUTOEXE... There is two sets of springs one normal and one in some made out of Titanium. Not sure if these is a good thing or just a marketing gimmick

[phate]

Originally Posted by cletusb Not a direct link but try here http://www.rs-r.co.jp/e/script/itemsearch/index.html Either do Selection type retrieval, Mazda - Atenza - GG3P OR Input type retrieval, Model series = GG3P Generic info here http://www.rs-r.co.jp/e/products_eng.../rsr/index.php or RS-R USA | High Quality and Performance Suspension | Professional Race | Drift | Car Enthusiasts | RANUP USA distro dosn't seem to get stock for a lot of cars tho Interested what you think between these and the AUTOEXE... There is two sets of springs one normal and one in some made out of Titanium. Not sure if these is a good thing or just a marketing gimmick

Never heard of RS-R. Watch out for cheap springs, the rates have been found to vary up to ~30% of advertised rate. Eibach/Swift/Hypercoil all claim less than 3% allowance in their advertised spring rates.

In terms of actual rates and resultant frequencies in the MS6...

Autoexe:
375/225 lb/in front/rear.
~1.48/1.43Hz Front/Rear (based on my own car weights. Slightly lower for heavier 6's)
31% stiffer in front than stock, and 22% stiffer than stock in the rear.

I can't really say for sure, but I don't think bringing up the front stiffness so much more than rear stiffness would be good. It might make the car understeer a bit more than it already does in stock form.

I know Bilstein says up to 20% stiffer with their shocks. If you go beyond that, they need revalved for the higher rate. I'm sure Koni could tell you what range they could operate in if you call them up.

RS-R:
336/224 lb/in front/rear
~1.39/1.43Hz Front/Rear (again, based on my corner weights)
17% stiffer in front than stock, and 22% stiffer than stock in the rear

In theory, probably a better split than the autoexes.



In the grand scheme, who knows what the quality of each company's product is. If you get either, you could get them rate tested for super cheap at the same place I had stock springs tested. $5 per spring + shipping both ways.

I doubt either of those springs would keep you off of the bump stops in an autox type situation, so the whole added understeer/oversteer situation probably doesn't change much because of that.

[phate]

H&R, Eibach, and Megan springs are all softer than stock (among others). CS claims 5% stiffer than stock, and the autoexe's are stiffer, but I don't remember by how much.

I would keep the drop to <1" all around. The front shock travel is severely limited when you lower, and the rear contacts the bump stops too soon.

[Indianspeed]

So it's either coil overs or cut stock springs. I am assuming you are on coil overs... And have been on stock springs before..any pictures?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Indianspeed So it's either coil overs or cut stock springs. I am assuming you are on coil overs... And have been on stock springs before..any pictures?

I'm in the process of making my own coil overs from bilsteins, lol. My thread was linked up above. I'll have to find pics from the different spring setups. But, actual suspension travel info is in my other thread. Far more important than looks, haha.

Edit, my thread wasn't linked. I'll find it later.

[bislag]

I'm rocking Bilstein shocks, purchased through Edge at a great price, and Eibach Pro-kit springs second hand. I also have a Whiteline RSB (installed after the shocks/springs).

Love the combo. I wish the springs were a bit better, but all things considered it's good enough. I highly recommend trying CS+Bilsteins, assuming the CS really are 5% stiffer than stock as @phate; said.

Also to address something else Phate said, with the Eibach Pro-Kits I haven't really had an issue with riding the bumpstops despite many hard corners. It'll be more of an issue with the Eibach Sportlines. That having been said, don't go softer than stock if you can help it.

[Indianspeed]

@bislag do you have pictures of yours on eibachs.. Do they really sit a lot lower on the rear end...

@phate I really don't care about looks either.. I just need something that's functional.. It would be awesome if you could share the link.. Thank you guys..

[bislag]

Originally Posted by Indianspeed @bislag do you have pictures of yours on eibachs.. Do they really sit a lot lower on the rear end...

Slightly, it's really not bad. I think a lot of it comes from the lines of the car. Perfectly good springs for my uses, but if I did it again I'd probably go with CS (which weren't available at the time) or a set of coils.

Pictures attached.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Indianspeed phate I really don't care about looks either.. I just need something that's functional.. It would be awesome if you could share the link.. Thank you guys..

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru....php?p=2395608

Still in the works, but there's quite a bit in there already.

[Indianspeed]

Originally Posted by phate MS6 Suspension Data - Mazdaspeed Forums Still in the works, but there's quite a bit in there already.

Wow..that is some detailed work... I have been reading articles from mazda6club.. There is someone named fordza who totally swears by cutting springs.. And tigrayspeed supports that as well.. Also based on what your say and the research.. Guess cutting the springs is by far the best option..

[cciepunk]

My MS6 had leaky back shocks, so I went with Eibach Pros and Koni Yellows. The setup dropped the car to give it a nice looking stance and didn't effect the ride quality. I am not an autox'er, but do spirited driving and the car responds while hugging turns.

[Indianspeed]

Originally Posted by cciepunk My MS6 had leaky back shocks, so I went with Eibach Pros and Koni Yellows. The setup dropped the car to give it a nice looking stance and didn't effect the ride quality. I am not an autox'er, but do spirited driving and the car responds while hugging turns.

And you are not riding the bump stops? Also what setting are you on? Pictures would be awesome..

[Mazdazilla6]

Be careful with cutting springs. Don't cut off too much as cutting them increases spring rate (may become very uncomfortable) and if cut too short can cause the spring to come loose/fall out/bind.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 Be careful with cutting springs. Don't cut off too much as cutting them increases spring rate (may become very uncomfortable) and if cut too short can cause the spring to come loose/fall out/bind.

You should be able to math out the actual change if you know the wire diameter. I can measure that when I get home. I had the stock springs rate tested, so we have a control to work back to...

[Indianspeed]

This seems like a decent write up HOW-TO: Cut OEM Springs

[blackmicamps6]

I will be going with RPM sports and bilstein shock setup... I know i got lucky with getting my hands on RPM sports i think they are 22% stiffer than stock and ~ 1/2" drop front and back... i can't wait to get this done.

[Indianspeed]

Originally Posted by blackmicamps6 I will be going with RPM sports and bilstein shock setup... I know i got lucky with getting my hands on RPM sports i think they are 22% stiffer than stock and ~ 1/2" drop front and back... i can't wait to get this done.

Where did you find RPM's? And how lucky were you? They sell at a premium..

[blackmicamps6]

used on facebook mazdaspeed for sale group... fucking lucky as hell tbh 175 shipped

[Indianspeed]

lucky !@$$@#$%

[cletusb]

Cheers for the info @phate;

Sidetrack a little I saw you got some adjustable spring perches from BC Racing in the other thread. So if this is a dumb question but can they be used in combination with a set kg lowering springs if I wanted to reduce how low they sit the car?

[phate]

Originally Posted by cletusb Cheers for the info phate Sidetrack a little I saw you got some adjustable spring perches from BC Racing in the other thread. So if this is a dumb question but can they be used in combination with a set kg lowering springs if I wanted to reduce how low they sit the car?

I suppose they could, but I don't think they'd give you what you wanted. At a minimum, without the jam nut, they will raise the spring perch ~.9" off of the current perch. That equates to approximately 1.5" higher at the wheel.

If you're just going for a little bit of height and don't want to go through a ton of work, you could just have some circles made that fit above the spring. They would just need to be ~3.5" ID and 4.5" OD, and however thick you need them. Just remember that the spring's mechanical motion ratio is .58, so however thick the spacer is you need to divide by that .58 factor to get the height change at the wheel. [From the example above, .9" thick divided by .58 is 1.55"]

[maddocx240]

RSr is a very well known company in Japan. They had one of the best sounding/quietest exhausts you could get on a 240sx. But they make parts for a wide variety of cars. They are a legit company. I'm sure what they advertise wouldn't be b.s. I didn't know they made springs for the ms6. That's very interesting. And the price is 460 bucks, which is a bit high for springs but could be worth it.

[phate]

If you get those and want to double check their rates, the place I had stock springs tested was super cheap at $5 per spring. Might be worth it to check their quality. rightfootperformance.net

[cletusb]

I've currently got 3 sets of springs in my garage and don't know what to install lol
Going to be paired with bilstein b8 shocks

1 Autoexe
2 RS*R Ti2000
3 King Springs (Australian)

Might see if I can find a local tester or something

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by cletusb I've currently got 3 sets of springs in my garage and don't know what to install lol Going to be paired with bilstein b8 shocks 1 Autoexe 2 RS*R Ti2000 3 King Springs (Australian) Might see if I can find a local tester or something

I'm not familiar with either of those second two. Care to share anything about them?