Mazda Tuning vs. Evo Tuning

[Ian0611]

Hey guys,

Just picked up our 2007 CX7 and joined the forum about a week ago. I'm not looking to do any mods right now (because of Ext. warranty) but I'm very interested in tuning the CX7 to optimize it in stock form.

I've been tuning my Evo 8 for about 3 years now so I'm very familiar with the concepts of tuning. I was wondering if there are any tuners out there who have also tuned Evos that could explain to me some of the similarities and differences between tuning the two platforms?

From what I've seen so far, it looks like Versa Tuner is the best program for the CX7. However, I'd appreciate your guys input on any other programs that support the CX7. Also, it appears as if the stock ECU already logs things like Air/Fuel and boost, so no need to install a wideband gauge or upgrade the MAP sensor correct? Basically all I need is the Versa Tuner software and a J2534 cable and I can get to work right??

Thanks in advance for your input!

[Haltech]

Welp, MZR mazdas are load based. You can tune them boost based but the results are meh. Also, we run fuel pressure at 1600psi, so the entire approach tuning a MZR vs a port injected Evo is night and day. I haven't used versatuner, just the,access port, however the concept is the same.,I suggest hoping over to the mazdaspeed 3/6 gen 1 Eco tuning section. We have several tuning guides that may help you out.

[Ian0611]

Originally Posted by Haltech Welp, MZR mazdas are load based. You can tune them boost based but the results are meh. Also, we run fuel pressure at 1600psi, so the entire approach tuning a MZR vs a port injected Evo is night and day. I haven't used versatuner, just the,access port, however the concept is the same.,I suggest hoping over to the mazdaspeed 3/6 gen 1 Eco tuning section. We have several tuning guides that may help you out.

I'm familiar with load based tuning as that's how I tune my Evo. Some guys do use boost based on the Evo, but personally, I prefer to stick with load because it seems to be more consistent. I downloaded Abilor's tuning guide and browsed through it a little bit tonight. Yea, it seems like fuel is the only thing that's a bit different but I'm sure I can figure it out.

A couple more questions I thought of:

Is there a limit to the amount of reflashes you can do on a Mazda ECU?

How hard is it do go back to the stock tune if I have to take the car in for service? Is the dealer able to tell if the car has been reflashed even if I put the stock tune back on it?

[GODspeed7]

Again this is all AP associated info but as far as I know there is no limit to the amount of reflashes on the ECU, I have changed tunes countless times on my car. It is easy to flash back to a stock tune and only takes 10 minutes. At first glance the dealership can't tell the car was flashed because the stock tune is on and the AP doesn't leave a footprint other than the key cycles will be excessively low. Might be able to blame that on a dead or drained battery. Again this is all AP info for a MS3 so take it for what it's worth.


Tapatalk LIKE A BOSS!

[rfinkle2]

Extremely similar in terms of almost every aspect except for the mivec system on the EVO has the ability to adjust variable valve timing on the exhaust side vs. the Mazda which only alters the intake valves.

As you stated, Mazdas also have a wideband sensor, so no messy interface with an aftermarket gauge etc.

Stock Mazda (2.5 bar) map sensor should be good up to ~21.5 - 22 psi, so no worries there either

Also, the HPFP in the DISI needs to be looked after, but other than that, boost, air/fuel and timing.

How were you tuning your EVO? Open source or AP?
@adlpb is a good source of info for the differences in hardware / monitoring / nuances.

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Extremely similar in terms of almost every aspect except for the mivec system on the EVO has the ability to adjust variable valve timing on the exhaust side vs. the Mazda which only alters the intake valves. As you stated, Mazdas also have a wideband sensor, so no messy interface with an aftermarket gauge etc. Stock Mazda (2.5 bar) map sensor should be good up to ~21.5 - 22 psi, so no worries there either Also, the HPFP in the DISI needs to be looked after, but other than that, boost, air/fuel and timing. How were you tuning your EVO? Open source or AP? @adlpb is a good source of info for the differences in hardware / monitoring / nuances.

Agree with everything above.

I'd say the Mazda is more user-friendly when it comes to tuning, as all you need is an AP. With the evo, you need to purchase an aftermarket test pipe with a wideband O2 bung, purchase an O2 sensor/gauge, and interface it to whichever tuning device you are using (AP/open source). Also, there's obvious big differences in fuel pressure as stated above. The evo does not read fuel pressure at all, while the mazda is happy at 1600psi+ at WOT.

Hands-down, the AP is the only way to tune your Mazda, while on the evo you had a few more reliable tuning solutions. The good thing is that you don't need your computer to flash maps into your car (if you have open source in your evo), the bad thing is that you can't take advantage of the wonders of TephraMod in your Mazda, like changing maps and logging with the cruise control button.

[lildisco]

*Sigh*
People please read the first post. This is for a 2007 Mazda CX7, not a speed3 or a speed6. AP doesn't not work for the CX7.

I have Versatuner on my 7 & I've flashed it back to stock for extended warranty work in under 10 minutes. My suggestion to you is to flash it back to stock for a few days so that the car can adjust to the stock tune & get rid of that p1000 or p0100 engine not ready. My dealership doesn't usually go into the computer to look for things unless you give them a reason to. I know very little about tuning & made some tweaks to the ecu after getting a 'performance' tune from a member on the Versatunes' website.

Have fun with it & i'd be interested to see what you can do with it. I'd be willing to try your tune out once you get it set to let you know if i see a difference. My main objective was for better fuel economy & slighty more power & drive ability, have seemed to got it all. I believe i used 'wayne's tune' on Versatuners forum. I'm not saying that my 7 is the most fuel efficient 7 out there, but my average is higher than most as you can see.

[adlpb]

Sorry, I went straight to the post I was mentioned in and didn't see he had a CX-7. I'm not very familiar with them.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by adlpb Sorry, I went straight to the post I was mentioned in and didn't see he had a CX-7. I'm not very familiar with them.

Same difference. This cat is on a Mazdaspeed forum and wants US to read carefully about his CX7. LOL

Originally Posted by lildisco *Sigh* People please read the first post. This is for a 2007 Mazda CX7, not a speed3 or a speed6. AP doesn't not work for the CX7. I have Versatuner on my 7 & I've flashed it back to stock for extended warranty work in under 10 minutes. My suggestion to you is to flash it back to stock for a few days so that the car can adjust to the stock tune & get rid of that p1000 or p0100 engine not ready. My dealership doesn't usually go into the computer to look for things unless you give them a reason to. I know very little about tuning & made some tweaks to the ecu after getting a 'performance' tune from a member on the Versatunes' website. Have fun with it & i'd be interested to see what you can do with it. I'd be willing to try your tune out once you get it set to let you know if i see a difference. My main objective was for better fuel economy & slighty more power & drive ability, have seemed to got it all. I believe i used 'wayne's tune' on Versatuners forum. I'm not saying that my 7 is the most fuel efficient 7 out there, but my average is higher than most as you can see.

Sigh? LOL.

How about a thanks anyway for the info etc.

Why don't you post on the Versatune site and ask Versatune questions especially about a CX7?

@Lex is the only person tuning with versatune right now afaik.

Anyhow, thanks for chiming in @adlpb.

[Raider]

First, with 2007, make sure you read link 1 in my sig, as the VVT and turbo affect the 07 CX-7's, too. The A/C compressor was extended for 07 CX-7's too, because they freeze and failed. I would have it checked to ensure it was swapped. I know, as I had one of the first shipment.


For CX-7, there is Versatune for sure, as well as Mazdaedit. The latter personally scares the crap out of me, since to the novice, you can really fuck shit up.

Versatune it. but also grab a SURE Rear motor mount and some form of intake. There are TMIC and TIP upgrade options galore, too. I think making it so the engine stays put and the engine can breathe are 2 big factors. Plus, they are easily swapped back to stock for warranty work. VIP access gets you FS thread visibility, and you can find mods from MS6/6 that bolt onto CX-7. Heck, there is a manifold and turboback exhaust out there for it too. Add those, need to upgrade FP internals.

[GODspeed7]

Originally Posted by lildisco *Sigh* People please read the first post. This is for a 2007 Mazda CX7, not a speed3 or a speed6. AP doesn't not work for the CX7. I have Versatuner on my 7 & I've flashed it back to stock for extended warranty work in under 10 minutes. My suggestion to you is to flash it back to stock for a few days so that the car can adjust to the stock tune & get rid of that p1000 or p0100 engine not ready. My dealership doesn't usually go into the computer to look for things unless you give them a reason to. I know very little about tuning & made some tweaks to the ecu after getting a 'performance' tune from a member on the Versatunes' website. Have fun with it & i'd be interested to see what you can do with it. I'd be willing to try your tune out once you get it set to let you know if i see a difference. My main objective was for better fuel economy & slighty more power & drive ability, have seemed to got it all. I believe i used 'wayne's tune' on Versatuners forum. I'm not saying that my 7 is the most fuel efficient 7 out there, but my average is higher than most as you can see.

Yeah no shit but like my post says the 2 are almost identical for the questions he was asking. How long to flash back to stock? 10 min. Does it leave a footprint? Not after enough key cycles. So yes we know the cars and tuners are different but they react to flash tunes the same way do they not?

And doesn't not work? That's a double negative which, according to you and your awesome grammar, means that the AP does work on the cx-7 and that is simply not true. *SIGH* please stop feeding people false information.


Tapatalk LIKE A BOSS!

[Lex]

The gen1 CX7 has VersaTuner support but the gen2 does not. I have tuned a few CX7 cars and they are just like any other speed but have an automatic.

They can be easily flashed back to stock and they have good stock widebands and knock sensors.

On the car itself, I would get an intake, a test pipe, an HPFP upgrade, and a rear motor mount. to pretty much max out what the turbo can do (which is a little smaller than a Mazdaspeed unit).

However, you can certainly just tune with all stock hardware and see some nice gains.

[lildisco]

Originally Posted by GODspeed7 Yeah no shit but like my post says the 2 are almost identical for the questions he was asking. How long to flash back to stock? 10 min. Does it leave a footprint? Not after enough key cycles. So yes we know the cars and tuners are different but they react to flash tunes the same way do they not? And doesn't not work? That's a double negative which, according to you and your awesome grammar, means that the AP does work on the cx-7 and that is simply not true. *SIGH* please stop feeding people false information. Tapatalk LIKE A BOSS!

Didn't know there was grammar police around here, sorry for trying to help someone with a couple tuning questions. Sorry grammar sucks, but my point came across just the same.

when you hear from the speed3/speed6 people all the time saying get the AP!!!!!111!! & it doesn't work for the CX7, it gets very annoying. It's like the gen one speed's coming in saying their turbo's are smoking. Just trying to set the record straight.

i r lurnt 2 spell!!

[adlpb]

Originally Posted by lildisco Didn't know there was grammar police around here, sorry for trying to help someone with a couple tuning questions. Sorry grammar sucks, but my point came across just the same. when you hear from the speed3/speed6 people all the time saying get the AP!!!!!111!! & it doesn't work for the cx7, it gets very annoying. Just trying to set the record straight. i r lurnt 2 spell!!

The CX-7 community is so small in this forum that you can't expect everyone to know that. You criticize Godspeed because he's a grammar nazi, and yet you don't expect us to criticize you for being the "ZOMG AP DOESN'T WORK WITH CX-7 YOU'RE ALL IGNOREENT" guy. The concept behind tuning is the same between the two, even though the device may be different.

[lildisco]

being a grammar nazi & having the correct information to a certain vehicle are 2 completely different things. I didn't call anyone out specifically, yet some people are turning this into something personal , which was not what i intended to do.

Let's not derail this thread anymore, carry on.

[Ian0611]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Extremely similar in terms of almost every aspect except for the mivec system on the EVO has the ability to adjust variable valve timing on the exhaust side vs. the Mazda which only alters the intake valves. As you stated, Mazdas also have a wideband sensor, so no messy interface with an aftermarket gauge etc. Stock Mazda (2.5 bar) map sensor should be good up to ~21.5 - 22 psi, so no worries there either Also, the HPFP in the DISI needs to be looked after, but other than that, boost, air/fuel and timing. How were you tuning your EVO? Open source or AP? @adlpb is a good source of info for the differences in hardware / monitoring / nuances.

Thanks for the info. I've been tuning the Evo with Ecuflash so it's Open source and mine is an 8 so no Mivec to mess with.

Originally Posted by adlpb Agree with everything above. I'd say the Mazda is more user-friendly when it comes to tuning, as all you need is an AP. With the evo, you need to purchase an aftermarket test pipe with a wideband O2 bung, purchase an O2 sensor/gauge, and interface it to whichever tuning device you are using (AP/open source). Also, there's obvious big differences in fuel pressure as stated above. The evo does not read fuel pressure at all, while the mazda is happy at 1600psi+ at WOT. Hands-down, the AP is the only way to tune your Mazda, while on the evo you had a few more reliable tuning solutions. The good thing is that you don't need your computer to flash maps into your car (if you have open source in your evo), the bad thing is that you can't take advantage of the wonders of TephraMod in your Mazda, like changing maps and logging with the cruise control button.

Yeah prepping the Evo for tuning is kind of a pain, but once you have everything you need it's not bad at all. The Tephramods are really nice to have but I can live without them on the Mazda.

Originally Posted by lildisco *Sigh* People please read the first post. This is for a 2007 Mazda CX7, not a speed3 or a speed6. AP doesn't not work for the CX7. I have Versatuner on my 7 & I've flashed it back to stock for extended warranty work in under 10 minutes. My suggestion to you is to flash it back to stock for a few days so that the car can adjust to the stock tune & get rid of that p1000 or p0100 engine not ready. My dealership doesn't usually go into the computer to look for things unless you give them a reason to. I know very little about tuning & made some tweaks to the ecu after getting a 'performance' tune from a member on the Versatunes' website. Have fun with it & i'd be interested to see what you can do with it. I'd be willing to try your tune out once you get it set to let you know if i see a difference. My main objective was for better fuel economy & slighty more power & drive ability, have seemed to got it all. I believe i used 'wayne's tune' on Versatuners forum. I'm not saying that my 7 is the most fuel efficient 7 out there, but my average is higher than most as you can see.

I have the same objective you do for tuning the Mazda. Just looking for better fuel economy and maybe a slight bump in power right now while keeping everything stock. Although... my initial intentions with the Evo was to return it back to mostly stock but it hasn't quite worked out that way!! LOL!!

I'll probably have to wait until after Christmas to make the investment for Versatune but I'll be more than happy to share what I come up with once I've had some time to work with it.

Originally Posted by Raider First, with 2007, make sure you read link 1 in my sig, as the VVT and turbo affect the 07 CX-7's, too. The A/C compressor was extended for 07 CX-7's too, because they freeze and failed. I would have it checked to ensure it was swapped. I know, as I had one of the first shipment. For CX-7, there is Versatune for sure, as well as Mazdaedit. The latter personally scares the crap out of me, since to the novice, you can really fuck shit up. Versatune it. but also grab a SURE Rear motor mount and some form of intake. There are TMIC and TIP upgrade options galore, too. I think making it so the engine stays put and the engine can breathe are 2 big factors. Plus, they are easily swapped back to stock for warranty work. VIP access gets you FS thread visibility, and you can find mods from MS6/6 that bolt onto CX-7. Heck, there is a manifold and turboback exhaust out there for it too. Add those, need to upgrade FP internals.

Thanks for all the advice! Yea it looks like Versatune is the better way to go. Mazdaedit doesn't look to be as user friendly. I plan on donating for VIP access soon. Did you guys raise the price recently? I thought I saw somewhere that it used to only be $10 but now it looks like it's $25.

Speaking of price- that's the the one thing that surprises me a little bit about tuning the Mazda. Tuning software for the Evo is free for Ecuflash and $25 for the Evoscan logging software. Versatune on the other hand, is $399 and Mazdaedit says you have to email for a price so I'm guessing it's in the same ballpark.

[ro-bi]

If you tuned EVO than will be no problem to tune mazda .
I did it with Mazdaedit. It is simple and effective.
For all stock you just have to change some maps and you will get nice hp gain.
To flash back to stock just use stock file and 10 minutes.

[Ian0611]

Originally Posted by ro-bi If you tuned EVO than will be no problem to tune mazda . I did it with Mazdaedit. It is simple and effective. For all stock you just have to change some maps and you will get nice hp gain. To flash back to stock just use stock file and 10 minutes.

How much did it cost you to get the full version of Mazdaedit?

[ro-bi]

Long time ago (1,5 year), about 300$ + cable for USB.
Now price could be different- ask Epifan for the price