Meth Injection: What is Really Needed?

[XLT_66]

Okay, so I'm interested in doing a meth kit for the Speed3. It seems like an all around great addition to our cars. Lower BAT, Reduce Knock, Clean Engine, right?

So right now, I have an AP, SRI, and TIP. Future plans (eventually) are an upgraded TMIC, DP, and TP. I don't see this car going BT and all that jazz.

So, with that being said. What am I looking at for doing a meth/water injection kit?

Devil's Own has the universal and the progressive controller. Labonte seems to have all sorts of stuff on his site.

What kit are you guys running? Are you even buying kits or just piecing together parts?

What is needed to have a safe, efficient, and reliable meth injection?

Thanks for your input.

Are there any drawbacks to doing meth injection other than the monthly Meth bill?

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

I've got a snow performance kit in my car. It runs off of a MAF based controller that tells it when to spray. So when the MAF hits a certain voltage it has a boost equivalent, then the meth sprays.
Meth is fucking magic plain and simple, I've never seen a drawback to it unless a car had been tuned for meth and then run out during a WOT pull.

My recommendation is to use it as a safety net and just use a bit of it to lay over your existing tune

[SRTie4k]

What I wonder is how meth affects the ECU's ability to regulate AFR...

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

To regulate or to read? I know adding meth, depending on nozzle size could move the AFR anywhere from .5 to over 1.x

[phillyb]

these threads are the new "which bov" and "which intake" threads
do stg 1 for stock turbo.
if i were a moderator, i'd lock this thread and tell you to search search search

[rfinkle2]

Subscribed for info. on brand recommendations, failsafe recommendations etc.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

I say fuck a failsafe. Don't have one in this car and didnt have one in my 700whp talon. I would recommend a checkvalve to stop meth drip however.

[SRTie4k]

Originally Posted by MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex To regulate or to read? I know adding meth, depending on nozzle size could move the AFR anywhere from .5 to over 1.x

I'm talking regulate. I know that meth makes the charge richer, but when that happens, does the ECU compensate by leaning out? So for instance, if you are commanding 11.8AFR, and meth lowers that to 11, does the ECU compensate by decreasing injector DC, thereby leaning it out?

Also, will that effect LTFT's, and therefore cause you to run lean if you run out of meth?

Actually now that I think about it, the ECU doesn't make changes in OL anyways, so maybe it's a moot point...

[XLT_66]

I've been searching and I've been reading the "I'm bored...ask me meth questions" thread.

I would think injecting a foreign combustible into your intake is a bit more complicated than choosing which BPV to choose.

Can someone point me to a guide on how to actually set up and tune for meth injection?

[phillyb]

this was from april 2nd - What Meth/Alcohol systems are you running?
this is from yesterday - Meth Install

[rfinkle2]

I see @FORZDA 1 below, and I would wait to hear his answer.

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Originally Posted by SRTie4k I'm talking regulate. I know that meth makes the charge richer, but when that happens, does the ECU compensate by leaning out? So for instance, if you are commanding 11.8AFR, and meth lowers that to 11, does the ECU compensate by decreasing injector DC, thereby leaning it out? Also, will that effect LTFT's, and therefore cause you to run lean if you run out of meth? Actually now that I think about it, the ECU doesn't make changes in OL anyways, so maybe it's a moot point...

Lol. I was just about to say the ECU didn't care because it was in open loop when you go WOT

Excellent example of meth drip:

YouTube - 2005 Evolution VIII + 30psi + Meth Injection = 30sec long Flames

YouTube - 2005 Evolution VIII + 30psi + Meth Injection = 30sec long Flames

[rfinkle2]

I can add one thing. I noticed that the Devil's own kits have the same type of

connections that Synapse is using on their BPV's. I had to go "old school" tubing on my

Synapse (not using @ the moment), to get it to stop hissing @ the connections.

Many people use Devils Own kits w/out a problem, but I, personally am apprehensive

to use their connections.

[XLT_66]

Also, what's the deal with all the failsafe stuff that places like Snow Performance offer.

The list seems endless.

Snow Performance: Products

I'm looking to use something like a 50/50 mix to use to help keep temps down and keep things clean.

A Stage 1 is all I need, huh?

Are there any recommend additions to a stage 1 kit that I should consider?

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

I always end up having trouble with quick connect fittings. I recommend using compression fittings. They're dirt cheap so a couple extra bucks won't break the bank

[rfinkle2]

italics from snow performance... i think their stage 1 kit is n/a only.

I know @phillyb used Devils own, so his stage 1 recommendation is for Devil's own.

Stage 1 Boost Cooler N/A&#8482


The gasoline Stage 1 Boost Cooler N/A&#8482 kit is available for naturally aspirated applications that don't utilize a MAF sensor. Operation is very simple, the system starts injecting when the vacuum switch reaches the user-adjustable point and it injects a fixed amount of fluid through the nozzle until the switch opens again. This makes it a good choice for naturally aspirated cars looking for an octane enhancement and cooler intake charge. Activation can also be set up through any other user-chosen switch, such as a full throttle switch, etc.

[speed23]

Originally Posted by SRTie4k I'm talking regulate. I know that meth makes the charge richer, but when that happens, does the ECU compensate by leaning out? So for instance, if you are commanding 11.8AFR, and meth lowers that to 11, does the ECU compensate by decreasing injector DC, thereby leaning it out? Also, will that effect LTFT's, and therefore cause you to run lean if you run out of meth? Actually now that I think about it, the ECU doesn't make changes in OL anyways, so maybe it's a moot point...

The o2sensor is not contolling the air fuel ratio at wot only at part throttle so when you spray meth the ecu does nothing to lean out the mixture

[XLT_66]

I was referring to the DO kit. My bad.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by XLT_66 I was referring to the DO kit. My bad.

NP... I just posted that for clarification.

[XLT_66]

Originally Posted by MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex I always end up having trouble with quick connect fittings. I recommend using compression fittings. They're dirt cheap so a couple extra bucks won't break the bank

I'm an industrial automation machine builder. We use SMC quick connect fittings for virtually all of our fluid and pneumatic lines. Very very rarely have any issues.

Granted, we usually don't run much over 100 psi in anything...

Do you have problems with leaks? It is critical that the tubing is the correct size for the fitting though. A 6mm tube will fit with a 1/4" fitting...but not always and it's usually not a good idea. However, 5/32" and 4mm as well as 5/16" and 8mm are interchangeable.

What size lines are you guys running?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by XLT_66 I'm an industrial automation machine builder. We use SMC quick connect fittings for virtually all of our fluid and pneumatic lines. Very very rarely have any issues. Granted, we usually don't run much over 100 psi in anything... Do you have problems with leaks? It is critical that the tubing is the correct size for the fitting though. A 6mm tube will fit with a 1/4" fitting...but not always and it's usually not a good idea. However, 5/32" and 4mm as well as 5/16" and 8mm are interchangeable. What size lines are you guys running?

My experience was with a Synapse DV's quick fittings.

I'm going to add links to related info.

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-w-pics-72851/


Methanol Mixing Calculator (EXCEL)

Pre-turbo methanol injection

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

3/8" refrigeration line. My issues usually stem from the meth tank fitting with leaks. Which is why I go with a compression fitting. I don't want my trunk to ever fill up with a pool o meth again

[FORZDA 1]

I have the Labonte VC-100 kit as I think it is the "best" with a positive solenoid for the meth on/off and is manifold pressure(boost) controlled. I've attached a cell photo of my Speed6trunk install w/4qt tank. I ran the hose along the brake/fuel line route under the car and the wiring through the kick panels. I mounted the controller behind the battery and made a bracket to mount the solenoid within 1" of the spray nozzle.

I wasn't a fan of WMI until I actually tried it out. I never ran it in the "old" days. I installed it with a very small #3 nozzle to keep the intake/valves clean, but it made a significant difference in how much air the engine could pull in, even with the small nozzle. I start the spray at 10 psi and max it at ~20psi. When I go back with my basically new motor, I will switch to a #4 nozzle.

I now believe that meth is REQUIRED for the big power the DISI is capable of.


I also added the optional level sensor in the tank and wired it to the washer fluid low light, so the light tells me I'm low on meth as I don't use the washer much.....

Oh, and NO leaks...

[i8urgti]

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 I also added the optional level sensor in the tank and wired it to the washer fluid low light, so the light tells me I'm low on meth as I don't use the washer much.....

can you give a brief description of how you did this?

[amoosenamedhank]

Originally Posted by speed23 The o2sensor is not contolling the air fuel ratio at wot only at part throttle so when you spray meth the ecu does nothing to lean out the mixture

So are you guys with Meth just noting your WOT AFRs and adjusting your target? Let's say you're targeting 11.8:1 but because of the meth you're actually seeing 11.1:1. Are you then setting your targets to 12.5:1 to compensate and hit your desired 11.8:1 target?

[Tomas]

here is my toilet read how to.

On The Matter of MW Injection

[dooderek]

How to: diy meth kit

[thatsmrgimp2u]

Subbed for reference

[speed23]

Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank So are you guys with Meth just noting your WOT AFRs and adjusting your target? Let's say you're targeting 11.8:1 but because of the meth you're actually seeing 11.1:1. Are you then setting your targets to 12.5:1 to compensate and hit your desired 11.8:1 target?

Thats correct.

[Abilor]

Originally Posted by i8urgti can you give a brief description of how you did this?

I added this as well. You just drill 7/8, hand tighten it in, make sure the sensor floats up in the tank, ground one lead, and solder the other to the controller yellow wire. Works like a champ. I'm excited about the whole system in general.

[cld12pk2go]

Here is my write up:

How to install an Alkycontrol kit with PAC controller.

The newer alkycontrol kits have a pressure switch to indicate the pump is active instead of mine which indicates off of power supplied to the pump.

I have had this kit for 6 years on 2 cars and it is just awesome.

[TRex]

Originally Posted by speed23 Thats correct.

is it linear though? as in it will always richen by X amount

[YokiMazoku]

Lots of useful info thanks everyone im ordering my meth kit this week so thanks for the helpful post.

[laxplayermjd]

subbed. i just cleaned my intake valves the other day, they new looking now and i want meth. 100 degree weather makes my boost temps way too hot

[Abilor]

Originally Posted by laxplayermjd subbed. i just cleaned my intake valves the other day, they new looking now and i want meth. 100 degree weather makes my boost temps way too hot

I also struggle with the ridiculous nature of early June in the 100's. Meth has seemed to help so far.

[YokiMazoku]

Hey guys i posted this in another thread but maybe someone here knows. Where can i find a remote filler for the meth tanks? And how is everything connecting the hose to the lid of the tank without it leaking?

[Enki]

I'd like to comment on compression fittings; I used to use them all the time in my paintball guns running unregulated CO2 (in AZ summers). 800+ PSI with a hot tank was no problem and never had leaks.

[dooderek]

Originally Posted by laxplayermjd subbed. i just cleaned my intake valves the other day, they new looking now and i want meth. 100 degree weather makes my boost temps way too hot

howd you clean yer valves?

[laxplayermjd]

i cleaned basically a abrasive blaster using walnut shell media with the blaster set to 6bar. good as new. even that didnt take it all off. did some scraping with a pick. seafoam will do very minimal to clean any of this when run through the intake. if anything youd be better off letting it soak on the valves with them closed all the way. using some tool to scrape at them. Its very hard to do it with anything well that why walnut shells blasting is the way to go.

[802_Anthony]

Hey guys, I'm a bit of a noob here and not exactly a car expert. I have an 07 speed 3 with CP-E catback, SRI, TIP, BOV, and Hypertech programming. The next things on my list are FMIC, DP, Denso spark plugs, and Meth/Water injection.

I'm struggling with this hot weather too and within the past few days the temps here (Vermont) have gone from low 70's to high 90's and I've noticed a serious decrease in power, so the meth/water injection seems really tempting.

What I don't know is how much a stock turbo/internals with bolt-ons and Hypertech tune would benefit from a meth kit. What would need to be done to get the most out of it, and would I have to get rid of Hypertech and tune with something else? I was reading somewhere that you can actually lose power with meth if you don't adjust boost and timing...

Thanks to anybody who can answer these questions or comment on my mods and what you think. All input will be appreciated