ms6mil Dual Nozzle Meth Install

[ms6mil]

Going to start off this thread with a list of what I'm working with. I have the Devil's Own DVC-30 kit. Originally came with the push to connect, but I opted for a clean and reliable SS Braided Line setup. This is also going to be for a dual nozzle setup. I will be including my experience with JMF Meth Throttle Body Spacer and the Damond Motorsports when it arrives.

First I am starting with the 2.25 gallon tank and will soon swap it out with something bigger depending on how quick I am having to refill the tank.



Made two 7/8 holes for the bulkhead fitting and the level sensor. I think I'm going to end up adding some epoxy or something similar to secure them to the tank a little better.



For the pump, I purchased the "Upper Housing Assembly" with the 3/8 FPT and swapped it with the pre-installed "push to connect"



For the Upper Housing on the pump I used one of the 3/8's to -4AN that came with the Devil's Own SS Kit and purchased the 90* from Jegs.com.



Next is the actual SS Line Set purchased from DO.


Now since I am doing a Dual Nozzle setup I needed more line. So I added an extra 14" line and an additional nozzle holder.


Also didn't like the t-fitting that DO sold so I purchased a NOS brand y-splitter. Probably not necessary but oh well...


At this point I am not quite sure how much line I will actually need so I purchased 4' of PTFE SS Line from Jegs.com. With that I also purchased 4 PTFE specific fittings. So once I measure everything out and get it ran in the car I will update with all the exact lengths of all the lines.



Next is this little guy I got today. This is JMF's version of the throttle spacer. It came with the 4 bolts and 3 plugs. Here is the configuration I plan to test out tomorrow. I'm not expecting an easy fit so we'll see how it goes. I also purchased DM version of the throttle spacer, so once they ship that I will add to the thread.



Here's a list of the things that I got to to work with so far. I probably went overboard but screw it.



I will update more tomorrow. Prices, links and more install pics...


Any recommendations or face palming are welcome.

UPDATE DAY 2


Started the day with running the main 15' line from the trunk into the down through the opening where the ITFP is. Drilled a 7/8 hole and stuffed a grommet to protect the line.



I ran the line down along side the rest of them. Worked out pretty good. After everything was in place I zip tied for added measure (not depicted).



The 15' line ended right at the fuse box. (Circled in red). Added the DO solenoid and the DO 8" line



Added the NOS Y-Splitter and made a 24" and a 28" line with the P.T.F.E. fittings and line I got from Jegs.com. You can see here that the NOS Y-Spliiter worked out better than the DO T-Splitter would have.



Now, on to the foreseen problem of getting the JMF throttle body spacer to fit with the stock Intake Manifold. I knew this was going to be an issue with fitment but I was determined to make something work.



This is the issue I found. The seam on the Mani and the uneven portion was preventing a good seal, as the DO nozzle holder was too bulky and hitting the portion of the mani circled in red.



My fix to this was to spend some time grinding the area down. Made everything nice and flush and with the help of a JBR Thermal Gasket, I had enough clearance to get everything in there after I flattened the DO nozzle holders on the grinder just a bit. Any nozzle holder similar in height but more narrow than the Devils Own rounded ones should work just fine.

If the JMF or even DM spacer was/is about 3-4mm wider, would solve the issue. Another potential fix which I believe DM is doing is adding an option for more throttle body gaskets with the spacer. I recommend anyone trying these on the stock Intake Manifold add two TIG's to the TB. There was plenty of bite left on the 4 bolts supplied to allow for the spacer and the TIG I have on my setup.



So everything but the controller is in and ready to go. I will wrap it up tomorrow with a test (vids & pics), then the tuning process begins. Adios e85!




Did some testing on the Dual DO7's with the JMF. Everything looks good. Leak Test, pump priming and functionality complete. Solenoid and the two check valves are doing their job. No drip coming from the nozzle. Going to finish up the electrical in a bit.

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

More to follow.....

UPDATE DAY 3

So I took yesterday off to pick up the motor for the upcoming build. I finished the install today. Because of my OCD and more specifically OCD in regards to electronics and wiring things in my car, it too longer than it really should have.

I ran the blue and yellow wires for the pump and level sensor along the side of the car under the door trim, and just found a spot in the trunk for ground to complete that portion of the job I just ran a red 16ga fused power to the battery.

For the controller I wasn't very creative so just put decided to put it into the change compartment.


The MAP inlet is said to require a 1/16th hose. First problem is I couldn't find one in town. I went to 3 autoparts stores with no luck. Second problem I found a cheap 1/16 hose at Lowes and its honestly too small and flimsy and I didn't feel comfortable pursuing that size. I ended up using 3/32 hose but as you can see it crimps and bend so easy, I think the 1/16th would have been worse.



I also purchased about 6 feet of 7/64 hose..

This is what I ended up doing



With the combination of Posi-taps and other wire crimping pieces I got everything wrapped up and put the car back together.

Priming it was tricky because of limited space everything being all connected and ready to go I ended up setting the controller to its lowest setting on the injection start and highest setting on the full injection dial. Then feathered the throttle while watching BATs and the green LED on the controller. Probably not the best way to do it but it worked. A little blind faith involved but it worked out.

I did find a leak so had to disconnect one of the lines at the Y-Splitter, applied some more thread sealer and tightened everything down. Re-primed and leak free.

Prices:

From Summit Racing...

$70.47
I ended up buying two 90* -4AN Female to Male fittings. Ordered the 2nd one from Jegs.com


Jegs.com

$65.94
X's 4

Devil's Own

$369 from Edge.





Because I didn't get the FPT Upper Assembly, and SS lines initially... Plus all the odds and ends It was a little pricey. Plus its a Dual Setup.

Total price without all the extra crap I bought....
$968.52... yeah... I know.

I took the car out for a quick test... I set the injection start at around 10psi and full at 18ish.. and grabbed a log. I still have e85 left in tank so I will do some work over the next few days..

Cool to see the BAT's drop from 90's to 50's and IDC's back down to double digits. The pucker factor was definitely high but I will be more responsible with the tuning moving forward.

Logs and failsafe install (pending delivery) coming soon...

UPDATE: 20 Oct 2014

Today I received the DM version of the throttle spacer. Here are a few pic's of what came in the box.

minus the nozzles obviously....



I will be putting this in probably this weekend when the 6 gallon tank comes in. Not sure if there is a benefit at this point to run the bigger nozzles (DO10's).

What say you?

[ledfootrob]

Good idea to turn the pump up the other way. Inlet needs to be as low as possible. If you dont when your tank gets low it will become a problem.

[ms6mil]

I tried to fit it that way and the upper assembly hangs lower than the tank. I would need to prop it up for it to fit. Plus from what I'm being told by the guys at DO the pump will be functional in any position. For these tanks and the larger ones that I will be upgrading to all mount on top. I would like to hear and read about pump flow failure because the pump wasn't put upside down. I'm open to it, just seems to be one of those things that people say because everyone else does.

I shouldn't be running low...

Again I'm open to (the whole putting the pump lower than the tank)it if the manufacturer or more importantly the MSF community that has insight or experience with this tank or the like, and a pump not being put upside down at which point flow became issue.

[ledfootrob]

Once the tank gets low and sloshes around air will get into the hose and the pump will run dry. If the inlet is at the bottom of the tank it will self prime itself.

[ms6mil]

This tank has a built in sump and fluid baffle to prevent such an issue, unlike the 2-4qt tanks. My Fluid level sensor is remarkably higher than the tank tap.



As long as the sump and baffle work like they should, there should be no air pickup. Also will have a flow fail safe connected to the Guardian Angel

[kbz0129]

Nice! What did you end up spending on all those little AN fittings? This is on my long list of to do's lol

[ms6mil]

Gonna consolidate all the prices tomorrow, and trim it to the essentials. I used jegs.com and summitracing for the fittings. Definitely spent more than I should have.

[sheston]

You should ask someone at Devil's Own. I thought the point was the pump was a pusher style. Doesn't like to suck very much. With the low tank, you will be sucking uphill. My impression was the inlet to the pump should be lower than the tank and the lowest point in the system

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by sheston You should ask someone at Devil's Own. I thought the point was the pump was a pusher style. Doesn't like to suck very much. With the low tank, you will be sucking uphill. My impression was the inlet to the pump should be lower than the tank and the lowest point in the system

Refer to post #3 and #5

I already did speak with the DO guys. If anyone has substantive evidence/experience with this 2.25 gallon tank with the sump and baffle or similar types I would love some input. (specifically of its baffle & sump failure)

[ms6mil]

Updated OP.

[King Scumbag]

Damn @ms6mil; that is a legit write up of your setup. It has definitely been noted for the future. Good to see what's workin, functioning and what's not between great minds collaborating and pushing the platform on meth.

[ms6mil]

Leak Test, pump priming and functionality complete. Solenoid and the two check valves are doing their job. No drip coming from the nozzles. Video added to OP

[AshFromCan]

You mentioned possibly upgrading to a bigger tank depending on how often you have to refill. How long do you expect that volume of meth to last? I know it will depend on your goals, setup, etc. but what are your ballpark expectations?

Thinking of doing this in the future at some point and just trying to get ideas on what to expect.

Great writeup btw.

[sheston]

I would be interested in how fast you go thru the Meth as well. That video is very impressive, lots of Meth.

With my driving style, (D03 and D07) coming on at 10ish psi and full by 18 psi, I go thru a gallon and a half to 2 gallons every gas tank.

How much horsepower are you running?

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by sheston I would be interested in how fast you go thru the Meth as well. That video is very impressive, lots of Meth. With my driving style, (D03 and D07) coming on at 10ish psi and full by 18 psi, I go thru a gallon and a half to 2 gallons every gas tank. How much horsepower are you running?

Originally Posted by AshFromCan You mentioned possibly upgrading to a bigger tank depending on how often you have to refill. How long do you expect that volume of meth to last? I know it will depend on your goals, setup, etc. but what are your ballpark expectations? Thinking of doing this in the future at some point and just trying to get ideas on what to expect. Great writeup btw.

I would assume my Meth usage would be similar to @sheston;'s. I am predicting to go through a lot once I start the tuning. I am starting with the two D07's and will swap out to the DO10's if necessary. Currently on e85 I am between 380-400, so I don't expect anything significant as I am still on the stock block. Speaking of which I picked up a second motor today for my upcoming Engine Build, I just need to figure out who to send my engine to. My IDC's have been in the triple digits for a while and I want to have a go at meth instead of e85.


I will be upgrading to the 6 gallon at some point.

[Plimmer]

Awesome thread. Thanks for the R&D, and VD looks great.

[ms6mil]

OP updated..

Originally Posted by Plimmer Awesome thread. Thanks for the R&D, and VD looks great.

Thanks Rob,

Let me know when we're gonna pitch in for more meth. I am gonna be going through alot of this stuff.

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by AshFromCan You mentioned possibly upgrading to a bigger tank depending on how often you have to refill. How long do you expect that volume of meth to last? I know it will depend on your goals, setup, etc. but what are your ballpark expectations? Thinking of doing this in the future at some point and just trying to get ideas on what to expect. Great writeup btw.

I got everything wrapped up and filled the 2.25 gallon tank. I reset my odometer, and am recording fuel usage, logs taken throughout the re-tuning process, and # of WOT pulls. I will be checking daily, tracking and recording meth usage and will report back the frequency of filling the tank back up.

[sheston]

Great update. I have a question for you. You made a comment about have E still in the tank. Are you trying to replace E with this set-up?

I'm toying with using Meth in the gas tank instead of Eth, really using that for the knock protection, with the Meth spray for the extra fuel and BAT cooling (I'm hoping this gives me protection if my WMI fails at some point).

Is this your plans as well?

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by sheston Great update. I have a question for you. You made a comment about have E still in the tank. Are you trying to replace E with this set-up? I'm toying with using Meth in the gas tank instead of Eth, really using that for the knock protection, with the Meth spray for the extra fuel and BAT cooling (I'm hoping this gives me protection if my WMI fails at some point). Is this your plans as well?

Right now the plan is to run out the ethanol, run 93 with the DO7's, see how far I can take it. I would like to keep the e85 in there as a precautionary measure, as you stated in case the meth fails, but the plan originally was to replace and get rid of the ethanol all together.

The more I read about the various fails with meth, the more anxious I get. Check valves, pump failure, leaks, clogged lines... it all could go very wrong, besides the flow meter/fail safe and my OCD to check and re check everything and ensuring I installed to the best of my ability is all i can do.

[sheston]

Looks like you did a great job making it as robust as possible. Good luck continuing.

I just didn't like having to keep jugs of Eth and jugs of Meth. I used to put 4.5 gallons of Eth in every tank. Now I'm putting 2 gallons of Meth. Seems fairly equivalent as far as knock protection and timing, and now I only have to go to one drug dealer :-)

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by sheston Looks like you did a great job making it as robust as possible. Good luck continuing. I just didn't like having to keep jugs of Eth and jugs of Meth. I used to put 4.5 gallons of Eth in every tank. Now I'm putting 2 gallons of Meth. Seems fairly equivalent as far as knock protection and timing, and now I only have to go to one drug dealer :-)

Thanks I appreciate it. As for the meth in the tank, I'll keep that in mind. I don't want mess with the ethanol anymore because there is only 1 station here. Meth is easier to get. We'll see how it goes over the next few days.

[BLKSTIG]

well now I know who is going to help me with my install when the day comes...
Good stuff! Glad to see you moving along with this build. Sending the motor out? I pegged you for a DIY'er. you know you wanna try it lol

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by BLKSTIG well now I know who is going to help me with my install when the day comes... Good stuff! Glad to see you moving along with this build. Sending the motor out? I pegged you for a DIY'er. you know you wanna try it lol

HAHA. You name the time and place. As for the build, I will do as much as I can. I will leave the machine work and more technical stuff to the certified folks. The motor is one thing I don't want to fail with. Honestly I don't trust any local place to do it and I won't have the funds till January-ish

I am going to start purchasing the supporting upgrades for it soon, ie JMF mani, new exhaust mani and a bigger turblow!

[ms6mil]

I got a few revisions in, this progressive controller will take some getting used to. I still have to smooth out the AFR's a bit. I am seeing a common issue from what I have read in other threads with enrichment after I let off the throttle. Also overshot my boost at spool up a little so will make corrections on the next map.

I am continuing to track my meth usage, # of WOT logs, etc... I will continue to clean up the tune and report back..

Tips, recommendations, all welcome.

[rfinkle2]

Man, that is some write-up. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[King Scumbag]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Man, that is some write-up. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

Ditto Rob, ditto, I agree this thread is win. @ms6mil; good shit dood.

I'm sitting, watching and waiting. Nothing better then seeing such a great setup come together so well. I thank you for this as if and when I do run meth this is a great reference.

Let the dick reading continue

Edit: riding not reading..I'm drunk but I love reading it too. Hahahaba

[ms6mil]

Much appreciated. For now I am just continuing to log and tweak. So far I just finished my first tank of gas and have over half the 2.25 gallon tank of meth left.

I have driven over 350 miles of mixed driving and about 57 WOT logs and a few races this evening with a befuddled Stang 5.0 owner.

The 2.25 galllon DO meth tank would be perfect for a single nozzle trunk setup but I am ordering the 6 gallon tank this weekend. I figure once I swap the DO10's and test out the DM throttle body spacer it would be a perfect opportunity to swap out for a bigger meth tank.

I will post up some logs tomorrow.

[BLKSTIG]

off topic: how many miles are on your motor and how many miles at this power level?

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by BLKSTIG off topic: how many miles are on your motor and how many miles at this power level?

Currently around 94k miles on the motor. As far as how long at this power level, I would say it's been about a year and half and about 20-25k miles since the turbo install. Our last Dyno day was this last May and I was at 393 and have been there pretty consistently since then on e85. I would guess about 10k miles since then.

[ms6mil]

Here's a couple of pulls from this morning. About time to top off the meth tank.

[AshFromCan]

Originally Posted by ms6mil Much appreciated. For now I am just continuing to log and tweak. So far I just finished my first tank of gas and have over half the 2.25 gallon tank of meth left. I have driven over 350 miles of mixed driving and about 57 WOT logs and a few races this evening with a befuddled Stang 5.0 owner.

Just the kind of info I was looking for. The effect on your BATs in those logs is pretty crazy to see. You're using 100% Meth in your setup right? Or is it mixed with water?

[sheston]

Man, I need to go BT! Nice stuff

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by AshFromCan Just the kind of info I was looking for. The effect on your BATs in those logs is pretty crazy to see. You're using 100% Meth in your setup right? Or is it mixed with water?

100% on dual DO7's

[ms6mil]

@rfinkle2; got one in during lunch....
with the recommended edit

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by ms6mil @rfinkle2; got one in during lunch.... with the recommended edit

On that one, you had a touch of KR, but let's try the same thing again. I'll pm you soon.

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 On that one, you had a touch of KR, but let's try the same thing again. I'll pm you soon.

Yeah I saw it, I'll adjust, thanks again.

[ms6mil]

Today I received the DM version of the throttle spacer. Here are a few pic's of what came in the box.

minus the nozzles obviously....



I will be putting this in probably this weekend when the 6 gallon tank comes in. Not sure if there is a benefit at this point to run the bigger nozzles (DO10's).

What say you?

[ms6mil]

@rfinkle2;

this one's dialed in a bit more, aside from the weird post spool lean spot.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by ms6mil @rfinkle2; this one's dialed in a bit more, aside from the weird post spool lean spot.

Wondering if you move your trigger (start) on the DVC30 lower than 10 if your lean bump shifts to the right....