Back in the saddle

[JumpingJackson]

id try bumping it up to .040" first and see where you are from there

[bf360]

Originally Posted by Haltech The Cobb guys have nothing to prove at this time... There are details to be worked out with other parts of this car. I still do not know why, you didnt go higher compression? I would of bumped it up.

bumped it up? to what 10:1? 9.5 is already high compared to most forced induction builds, i understand this is di but the idea of forced induction and compression still apply

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by bf360 bumped it up? to what 10:1? 9.5 is already high compared to most forced induction builds, i understand this is di but the idea of forced induction and compression still apply

Direct injection man, doesnt matter. I bump all of my forced inducted builds compression by .5 point.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson You have changed the characteristics of the turbo and the restrictor pill that is built into the turbo hasnt changed with it. You need a bigger restrictor pill most likely. the one on the stock turbo is right inside the boost source fitting. You need to replace it with a bigger one some how or enlarge that one. I think the stock size is .035"

ive used .03, .375, .04, .045, .052, .06

below .04 i boost off the chart and, anything else i can control spike, then fall to boost 14-16psi... slowly crawl to target 1000-2000rpms later at 18-20psi and hold that to redline, give or take. i know how to tune with the PIDS... i can spike more, less, i can control oscillation.i can do anything except get rid of the fucking drop to 15psi-ish no matter the pill size.

im fucking pissed about this. im using welding tips. maybe i need smaller resrictor pills(shorter length). the welding tips are an inch long. im at a total loss.

im going ewg eventually, but im going to upgrade the boost solenoid next.... ive dialed in other guys over the phone... i just cant do it myself.... crazy.

Originally Posted by Haltech Direct injection man, doesnt matter. I bump all of my forced inducted builds compression by .5 point.

once ive got boost controlled then the car will make numbers. im confident.

Originally Posted by Haltech The Cobb guys have nothing to prove at this time.

so you say.

whats wrong with the cobb bt tunes?
and why are protunes so inconsistent?

its obvious they have alot worked out but theres still alot with the ecu that isnt being "tuned" yet...it seems

when can we expect full disclosure of whats still left on the table with the Cobb tunes?

[JimmyMac]

I cut my welding tips in half..... That's how I use them. They might be 1cm long. Maybe a tad longer. Check out some of the Subaru pill pics. You'll get a good idea of how big their pills are.

[dadasracecar]

get a 35r.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac I cut my welding tips in half..... That's how I use them. They might be 1cm long. Maybe a tad longer. Check out some of the Subaru pill pics. You'll get a good idea of how big their pills are.

so in other words... its possible that they are to long? that shocks me sorta... but i wouldnt have brought it up if it hadnt crossed my mind. why do you think it might affect it? or did you do it to make them easier to get in and out of the hoses...lol?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar get a 35r.

its already done.

ive got a beautiful coated medieval mani with tial 44mm wastegate coming from loosh. i also have his gt35 and hks ignition box... all mine when i show up on the 20th.

but that weekend i want impressions from everybody, and we can work on the gt30 and present mani. itll give you guys some experince for robbies car. i want to see what can be done with what ive got before we move on.

the other stuff is going in on my driveway.... ive got new tools and i need a personal project to keep the haters off my ass about doing my own work...lol marks gone... im gonna have to do this and i want a BIG project for myself. i figure a gt35, mani, ewg, with a reroute back into the downpipe is a nice project to take on. that'll be january....

no screamer pipe for me if you didnt catch that, btw.

[JimmyMac]

I was basically copying the Subaru pill sizes. But I do think the length of the pills plays a part in it too. The longer, the more restriction/delay?

[JimmyMac]

Errrr, maybe I have that backwards... longer... more spikey. Can't think... didn't go to bed last night... had to write a paper and do my english exam today... ugghhhh. Can't wait til next weekend...

[phailerider]

thats good news!!!!!! i figured it had to be that.. its the only rock left unturned!!!

i'll chop them down and seee what the effect is. a 1/4 inch is about right?

[JimmyMac]

Uh, try 1/2" first.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac Uh, try 1/2" first.

and that worked well for you?

out of curiousity... you did .045 size and what was your pid control values? do you recall offhand?

[JimmyMac]

No, I did the .035" size. It seems to be right for the GT28... I have the SB set to 20psi, but I never got a chance to fine tune everything. I was waiting on the PG manifold to come in before I did any tuning. When it did come in, I got held up with school work. But I bought a netbook to start tuning my SB in the car, then a day or two later...the motor went tick tick tick tick. Perfect timing if you want to call it that! My car was like... NOOOO you aint tuning this car, you better upgrade first bitch!! haha.

But anyways, with the .035" pill cut down to maybe 1/2 inch or a tad less... I would see spikes of 21-22psi norm. But hold boost at 19.8ish psi to redline. But then again... I don't have the CPe flash like you have. Maybe that's why I can hold and you can't??

[socks]

Originally Posted by palerider its already done. ive got a beautiful coated medieval mani with tial 44mm wastegate coming from loosh. i also have his gt35 and hks ignition box... all mine when i show up on the 20th. but that weekend i want impressions from everybody, and we can work on the gt30 and present mani. itll give you guys some experince for robbies car. i want to see what can be done with what ive got before we move on. the other stuff is going in on my driveway.... ive got new tools and i need a personal project to keep the haters off my ass about doing my own work...lol marks gone... im gonna have to do this and i want a BIG project for myself. i figure a gt35, mani, ewg, with a reroute back into the downpipe is a nice project to take on. that'll be january.... no screamer pipe for me if you didnt catch that, btw.

Your doing a 35r?!

Can i take a look at your 3071r tune? im not really sure where to start with it. The car runs a perfect afr right at 12 and no knock with the map zerod out. when i turn on the meth it drops to like 10.5, so ill probably add timing to get that back in check.

[FantasmoNegro]

Originally Posted by palerider the other stuff is going in on my driveway.... ive got new tools and i need a personal project to keep the haters off my ass about doing my own work...lol marks gone... im gonna have to do this and i want a BIG project for myself. i figure a gt35, mani, ewg, with a reroute back into the downpipe is a nice project to take on. that'll be january.... no screamer pipe for me if you didnt catch that, btw.

You got a mechanic freind that will work for parts. Keep that in mind.

[Laloosh]

randy really needs a 35r...my graph alone, from 5500 to redline is a straight line on low boost...up the boost on that bad boy and well c what the ms3 can do

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Laloosh randy really needs a 35r...my graph alone, from 5500 to redline is a straight line on low boost...up the boost on that bad boy and well c what the ms3 can do

Randy needs an external gate, manual boost controller, maf flash, 2.5 inch IC piping and meth. I was calm before but I want my chance now. You guys got till Jan to get your numbers up then I'm setting the bar.....

I should have never let Speed3hoson take my proto steed mani.......

[Laloosh]

well randy is getting my mani, my tiall 44 and the big papi, plus im sure hes getting a maf flash ect ect

[socks]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 Randy needs an external gate, manual boost controller, maf flash, 2.5 inch IC piping and meth. I was calm before but I want my chance now. You guys got till Jan to get your numbers up then I'm setting the bar..... I should have never let Speed3hoson take my proto steed mani.......

I definately appreciate you passing it on to me. but in the long run i think your car will benefit from a straight t3, rather than an adapter to t3 thats not gonna be better than running a k04 flange anyways...

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Speed3shon I definately appreciate you passing it on to me. but in the long run i think your car will benefit from a straight t3, rather than an adapter to t3 thats not gonna be better than running a k04 flange anyways...

Yeah I know your right but I'm starting to get antsy about the build. I'm getting excited thinking about putting out a high number.

[socks]

Lucky for my motor you passed it on, i have a atcreep turbo already on the car.

[phailerider]

I HAVE CONTROL OF BOOST!!!!!

[phailerider]

three things i learned today, and over the last 2 weeks.

1. how to control boost.
2. everything to do, not to control boost. i mean everything.
3. im a dipshit

back to the dyno monday. i never had it setup right EVER.... including in the spring. the way we did it in the spring, i knew wasnt the traditional way... but boost held better than my new setup so i never really messed with it to try and improve the actual vacuum hose.

Now today for the first time, i see what the standback can do with an atp turbo. im getting 23 psi spike, hold 20 psi perfect to redline. the car feels like a COMPLETELY different animal.

[MS6_Auburn_Fan]

What did you do to get it working right?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by MS6_Auburn_Fan What did you do to get it working right?

the vacuum lines needed to be switched.....

1 line from the wastegate actuator to the boost souce.... straight through tee.
teed off of that to the boost source.

It was never set up that way and NO ONE not in any conversation ever told me it was wrong. I talked to 10-20 guys.... explained exactly what my setup was and it was never questioned.

Apparently it also works if you....
run it straight through to the boost solenoid from the boost source and tee off to the wastegate. thats what loosh was doing. i havent tried that yet, but it was gonna be next.

what i had been doing.... i ran wastegate to boost solenoid and teed off to boost source. it doesnt work that way.... obviously. i assumed it was right and messed with 7-8 pill sizes, a hundred PID changes. omg...frustration.

Fuck im happy right now. I never questioned the setup, and it was close, because it was exactly the way the first diagram i ever saw had it. That was supposed to be the difinitive how to .... AND IT WAS WRONG. i think it was 4DRHTRDs writeup from a year ago. he was the guru at the time and the diagram posted in his big turbo thread from the 6 forums had it the way i had it. I never questioned it and neither did anybody else. Obviously others were setting it up differntly tho.

[crazyitalian041]

Originally Posted by palerider the vacuum lines needed to be switched..... 1 line from the wastegate actuator to the boost souce.... straight through tee. teed off of that to the boost source. It was never set up that way and NO ONE not in any conversation ever told me it was wrong. Apparently it also works if you.... run it straight through to the boost solenoid from the boost source and tee of to the wastegate. thats what loosh was doing. i.... ran wastegate to boost solenoid and teed of to boost source. it doesnt work that way.... obviously. Fuck im happy right now.

Faster?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by crazyitalian041 Faster?

omg. yes.... there is major hope. it was WAY faster at 18 psi, and at 20...there is bigtime improvement over 18. i never noticed consistent, noticeable improvement if i raised boost, because it always wanted to fall off to 14-16 psi before. plus it jumped around a bunch. now at 20 psi it rips the wheel out of my hand during shifts and pulls from 2-4th gear. im making 40-50whp more. id say easily.

robbie.... be VERY encouraged. this was the problem for sure.

[crazyitalian041]

Originally Posted by palerider omg. yes.... there is major hope. it was WAY faster at 18 psi, and at 20...there is bigtime improvement over 18. i never noticed consistent, noticeable improvement if i raised boost, because it always wanted to fall off to 14-16 psi before. plus it jumped around a bunch. now at 20 psi it rips the wheel out of my hand during shifts, im making 40-50whp more. id say easily. robbie.... be VERY encouraged. this was the problem for sure.

Well that being said, i am glad you found everything out randy, they are trying 2 start my car today. Lets hope for the best eh, what time is dinner on the 20th? 8pm?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by crazyitalian041 Well that being said, i am glad you found everything out randy, they are trying 2 start my car today. Lets hope for the best eh, what time is dinner on the 20th? 8pm?

whenever we say it is. 8 sounds good. im maybe coming up with jimmymac... plus loosh is gonna be there. gonna be a party time.

think "what is love, baby dont hurt me, no more".... kinda party time

[crazyitalian041]

Originally Posted by palerider whenever we say it is. 8 sounds good. im maybe coming up with jimmymac... plus loosh is gonna be there. gonna be a party time. think "what is love, baby dont hurt me, no more".... kinda party time

rofl hahah sounds good, i wont have the car back, scotty is breaking it in for 7 - 10 days like jordan did 2 urs. I am sure we will see it though.

[SneakyP86]

Thats great Randy glad to hear it.....hope everything goes good monday.

[JimmyMac]

You didn't have your hoses set up right? You bonehead!! hahaha j/k...

Sounds good. What pill size did you settle with? You can probably controll the spike with a larger pill hole size. But just a tad bigger. Or mess with your PID.

[FantasmoNegro]

Awesome Randy. If you want I'll bring the Camera again.

[Laloosh]

so now you have it set up the way i showed you?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Laloosh so now you have it set up the way i showed you?

no that was gonna be next. i did the hoses different. i actually got it off a cobb pdf document for how they recommend setting it up on subbies. im tempted to try it your way just for shits and gigles at this point to tho.

you teed to the wastegate actuator, from a straight vacuum line between the boost source and the boost solenoid.

i decided to tee the boost solenoid, from a straight vacuum line between the boost source and the wastegate actuator.

the restritor pill remained off the boost source... plus i chopped it down to about a centimeter, instead of the full inch on the welding tip.
SUCCESS!!! i knew it was fixed on the first pull. i dialed in the PIDs from there. totally fixed...lol

for what its worth guys... i had the line straight between the wastegate and the boost solenid... my tee went to the boost source. that alone fucked it all up. 4DRHTRDs writeup from a year ago, had a misleading diagram and ive been going off that ever since. i need to do another writeup. BTW... any other bt guys have it set up the way i had it, and they are controlling boost? im curious. that diagram made the rounds.

[crazyitalian041]

remembering this incase i have similar issues.

[sbspeed]

Originally Posted by palerider BTW... any other bt guys have it set up the way i had it, and they are controlling boost? im curious. that diagram made the rounds.

I used a diagram CP-E provided - I can't find it but here are a few pics of my setup. I'm using a .040" NOS jet in the tee coming from the boost source. Works for me.

[phailerider]

YESSIR!!!! thats how i have mine now. only difference from before is instead of my tee shooting out to the solenoid... i had it shooting towards the boost source and the pill.

Do you get any creep or spike with the .040 pill...im using .045 now.

I was just looking a datalogs from last night and at 16psi.... i held 16-17 all the way to redline... "maybe crept to 17.5ish psi by redline in the upper gears. im a happy camper. my boost logs at 16psi look almost the same as when i was trying to boost 20psi on the old setup.... only differce is im running 4 less psi, and it was even worse on the dyno!!!!! I cant wait to see some logs at 20-21 once it gets warmer. im pushing the envelope on the maf even at 16-17psi in temps of 34 degrees last night. i need that flash.

[Derek88]

Sweet- there is hope.

but that means that all of the rides that I've gotten weren't shit. lol.. cool