Motor mount install review

[Erich]

Installed all 3 motor mounts today. Just thought I would make some comments on the install and quality. Sorry no pictures, I just don't like messing with a camera when I am trying to work. Over all, each mount came out the box with minor dings. No big deal, just thought I would mention it.

Did the RMM first. This one looked and installed about how I would expect. Quick and easy to install with no issues. Stage 2.

Driver side was next. This is where I started to notice problems. First was fastening the bushing holder to the base plate. CP-e tolerances are NOT good enough on this. The hole on the plate did not line up with those on the bushing. I had to pull the bushing holder apart, clean some junk out between the two and put them back together (yes, used red thread lock doing this.) The holes were still off a little bit at this point but I was able get all 8 hex bolt in straight. The last two were very tough. Took quit a while to get them started straight, and then I had to put the assembly in my vise and and use a cordless drill to drive those last two in. Very disappointing. You may want to check this BEFORE you start pulling your other mount out of the car. Also, why doesn't CP-e just assemble this as part of manufacturing?

Next is dropping that assembly onto the transmission. This is the 4th (counting stock) driver's side mount that has been in my car and the only one that requires one of the studs to be removed and bolt used instead. Not only that, but the bolt CP-e provides to replace the stud is (in my opinion) too short. They provide a 25mm bolt. Once you take into account the plate and washer you are only getting around 1 cm of thread bite. The hole is plenty deep and threaded all the way to the bottom where it can easily accomodate a 35mm bolt and I in fact replaced the provided 25mm with an equivalent grade 35mm bolt.

The rest of the driver's side mount was about as expected, pain in the ass but nothing you wouldn't have to do with any of the driver's side mounts.

The passenger side mount was mostly as expected with three exceptions. First, the paint was already flaking off the bracket out of the box. Second, the bolts holding the bushing holder together weren't uniformly tight. Some were too loose for my taste, so I removed them all, applied thread lock and reinstalled. Third, the bracket tolerance was poor and I had to pound on the bushing with a rubber malet to get it into place. Not just taps either, but really hammer on it.

Haven't driven the car yet, but just idling and moving the car into its spot in the garage the vibrations are definitely harsher than with the SURE mounts, or any other mount combination I have had on the car. Will update with further driving experience in a week or two.

Edit to add: One other thing. The RMM has torque specs for every bolt. The other two mounts just specify "tighten" for every bolt/nut. It would be nice to have torque specs for the other mounts as well.

[daustin]

@www.cp-e.com;
@Grumpyjap;

I am greatly interested to know more about what happened here. I'm getting ready to replace both my passenger and driver side mounts and, while I was pretty convinced that I was going to go with CP-e side mounts, this gives me reason to question that decision.

This sounds like a MAJOR quality control issue.
@Erich;

It is a shame that you didn't get pictures of any of this.

[alex_speed13]

subbed for impressions on NVH; which hardness did you went for? u coming from sure tracks on the sides so i guess 75a?

It's been written before that the bolts they sent sometimes are mistaken, nothing to worry about imo. did you take any pictures of the dings?

[Erich]

Originally Posted by alex_speed13 subbed for impressions on NVH; which hardness did you went for? u coming from sure tracks on the sides so i guess 75a? It's been written before that the bolts they sent sometimes are mistaken, nothing to worry about imo. did you take any pictures of the dings?

They specify a M12-1.25 25 bolt in the instructions and that is what was sent. I guess it is probably enough, I personally didn't feel comfortable with it. Dings were very minor and not anything I would ever concern myself over, was just mentioning them because I took the time to write the rest out anyways. The flaking on the passenger mount I didn't notice until I grabbed onto the base to hold while hammering on the bushing holder to get it into place.

[Erich]

Just took the car for a drive. Vibration at idle is actually somewhat less harsh. Anything but idle, the vibrations are noticeably more harsh. Particularly bad at 1500 RPM where there seems to be resonance. The mounts also amplify engine noise, to the point I checked for an exhaust leak (there is not one.)

When I installed the SURE mounts the car felt more responsive and stiffer in the front, with reduced torque steer. These mounts are at least as large an improvements over the SURE mounts in that area as the SURE mounts were over the stock passenger and PTP transmission mount with 25k miles on it they replaced.

Will have to see where the vibrations settle after 500 miles, but right now the car is on the very edge of acceptability for daily driving (most people probably would find it no daily driveable.)

[Johnny_Law]

Originally Posted by Erich Anything but idle, the vibrations are noticeably more harsh. Particularly bad at 1500 RPM where there seems to be resonance....Will have to see where the vibrations settle after 500 miles, but right now the car is on the very edge of acceptability for daily driving (most people probably would find it no daily driveable.)

I have the 60's with a stage two RMM and I am really happy with the setup. I did spend 30 min properly aligning the engine/transmission, as it is really easy to get things out of alignment. A variation of 0.125 to 0.250 off center can easily result in a resonance at a particular RPM range. Many manufacturers incorporate alignment dowels/pins to correctly orient the engine/transmission within the cradle, but with time you can get it correctly without them:



I used my caliper piston tool to barley move the engine/transmission as needed:

PS7034 DISC BRAKE PAD SPREADER

For others thinking of 60's with the stage 2 RMM, the shifting is so much smother! The vibrations result in the front license plate on other vehicles to be illegible in the rear view mirror at cruse due to the slight vibrations. The improvements far outweigh the negatives in my opinion,

Hope you get your mounts worked out!

Cheers,

[alex_speed13]

Originally Posted by Johnny_Law I have the 60's with a stage two RMM and I am really happy with the setup. I did spend 30 min properly aligning the engine/transmission, as it is really easy to get things out of alignment. A variation of 0.125 to 0.250 off center can easily result in a resonance at a particular RPM range. Many manufacturers incorporate alignment dowels/pins to correctly orient the engine/transmission within the cradle, but with time you can get it correctly without them: I used my caliper piston tool to barley move the engine/transmission as needed: PS7034 DISC BRAKE PAD SPREADER For others thinking of 60's with the stage 2 RMM, the shifting is so much smother! The vibrations result in the front license plate on other vehicles to be illegible in the rear view mirror at cruse due to the slight vibrations. The improvements far outweigh the negatives in my opinion, Hope you get your mounts worked out! Cheers,

Can you specify a bit more? like... a how to or something, maybe im just being lazy to search (which i did already) but never heard about this and im interested in checking this out

[Johnny_Law]

Originally Posted by alex_speed13 Can you specify a bit more? like... a how to or something, maybe im just being lazy to search (which i did already) but never heard about this and im interested in checking this out

The whole purpose of correctly aligning the engine and transaxle are to eliminate bind and vibrations//resonance at particular RPM ranges in the CV joints. Due to the clearance between the side motor mount brackets and the bolts, it is easy to have the engine and transmission not perfectly aligned which alters the location of the inner tripod CV joint and to compensate, the position of outer rzeppa joint is compromised and is not centered when driving straight.



Most manufacturers have specific measurement criteria or use special tools when aligning the subframe and the engine/transaxle:





You can use an in engine support bar, long pcv pipe or the like and square it to the chassis with a tape measure and or level:



Hang two pieces of string with a weight held off them and then adjust the engine until it is parallel to the already squared engine support. Mounting a good laser level to the valve cover with a stationary base and rotating laser head can also be used for making measurements.

Since the general rule of thumb is to have the engine and transmission aligned within a 0.1 of an inch the following tool allows you to move the engine and transmission at very small intervals.

PS7034 DISC BRAKE PAD SPREADER

With the combined weight of the engine and transmission along with the friction of the motor mount contact points, a three foot pry bar to will not get the job done.

Generally the transmission and engine mating surfaces are near perfectly mated (some require shims), so by properly aligning the engine (valve cover is easiest) within the chassis results in the transmission being squared and thus the half shafts.

With more dealership having $10,000 dollar vibration tools you can actually measure the difference between a 0.25 and 0.1 inch in proper alignment. However, only an engaged driver will likely notice/care.

[alex_speed13]

Originally Posted by Johnny_Law The whole purpose of correctly aligning the engine and transaxle are to eliminate bind and vibrations//resonance at particular RPM ranges in the CV joints. Due to the clearance between the side motor mount brackets and the bolts, it is easy to have the engine and transmission not perfectly aligned which alters the location of the inner tripod CV joint and to compensate, the position of outer rzeppa joint is compromised and is not centered when driving straight.

Man!! thats some awesome info right there!!! appreciate it a lot, i will try to get that tool, actually yesterday i was mounting my rotors at a tire shop, i think i'll visit them again and try to explain to the guys what has to be done, once on a ramp with the car suspended i'll check the axle first and so on.

Thanks man

[jack_hammer]

Originally Posted by Johnny_Law The whole purpose of correctly aligning the engine and transaxle are to eliminate bind and vibrations//resonance at particular RPM ranges in the CV joints. Due to the clearance between the side motor mount brackets and the bolts, it is easy to have the engine and transmission not perfectly aligned which alters the location of the inner tripod CV joint and to compensate, the position of outer rzeppa joint is compromised and is not centered when driving straight. Most manufacturers have specific measurement criteria or use special tools when aligning the subframe and the engine/transaxle: You can use an in engine support bar, long pcv pipe or the like and square it to the chassis with a tape measure and or level: Hang two pieces of string with a weight held off them and then adjust the engine until it is parallel to the already squared engine support. Mounting a good laser level to the valve cover with a stationary base and rotating laser head can also be used for making measurements. Since the general rule of thumb is to have the engine and transmission aligned within a 0.1 of an inch the following tool allows you to move the engine and transmission at very small intervals. PS7034 DISC BRAKE PAD SPREADER With the combined weight of the engine and transmission along with the friction of the motor mount contact points, a three foot pry bar to will not get the job done. Generally the transmission and engine mating surfaces are near perfectly mated (some require shims), so by properly aligning the engine (valve cover is easiest) within the chassis results in the transmission being squared and thus the half shafts. With more dealership having $10,000 dollar vibration tools you can actually measure the difference between a 0.25 and 0.1 inch in proper alignment. However, only an engaged driver will likely notice/care.

i support and encourage you to create a new thread and do a how-to.

[alex_speed13]

Cool man, I actually think they'll settle fairly quickly, I appreciate your feedback. First drive on any mounts is a pita on any brand I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Erich]

Originally Posted by alex_speed13 Cool man, I actually think they'll settle fairly quickly, I appreciate your feedback. First drive on any mounts is a pita on any brand I think. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I fully expect them to settle in some, but I am comparing fresh install to fresh install.

[Nliiitend1]

Which durometer?

[Erich]

75

[triphop631]

let me know how it vibes in the 3100 to 2900 when letting off the gas in gear.

[Erich]

A week and a few hundred miles on the mounts. The vibrations have settled down quite a bit, but still more harsh than any other mount combination I have had on the car and still resonates at 1500RPM.

[08cosmic3]

I had the SURE TMM in street, the JBR PMM in 70D and the CP-e RMM in 75D and could not take all the noise that came with the side mounts in my daily. I sold both side mounts but then the CP-e 75D RMM was not strong enough for my driving so I bought a JBR 88 dogbone RMM. This RMM with stock sides is where I've settled. I still have the CP-e 75D and plan on putting it back on the car for a long drive with the family in June to EECMM in Maryland. The CP-e 75 is smooth and quiet but still holds well except for hard launches.

[www.cp-e.com]

Is there any way you can post or email some pictures of the issues you are having?
team@cp-e.com

[Erich]

The issue with hole mis-alignment is obviously part of CP-e's recall and I am working with them to get it resolved. I will update this thread later with my experience on how that is handled.

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com Is there any way you can post or email some pictures of the issues you are having? team@cp-e.com

The pictures in the other thread are a fair representation of my issue with the backing plate holes not lining up properly with the bushing holder holes. I will work on getting pictures of the flaking paint. Not sure I can get a camera down in there though. If not, when I go to replace the driver side mount I will pull the passenger mount too so I can get a picture.

[mrmonk7663]

@Erich; do you have a Balance Shaft Delete Kit installed? I know that when I deleted my balance shaft, and switched to a JBR triple pack, the car was unacceptable for daily driving. The steering wheel vibed like crazy...so much that you could measure the movement. I ditched the PMM altogether, and went back to stock. I installed a Cpe stage 2 rmm, and went down to a 70 duro JBR TMM. Still vibes some and I can hear the transmission a lot, but nothing like it did with the aftermarket PMM. In my opinion, the PMM induced the most vibration amongst all the mounts, while the TMM introduces the most noise.

[Erich]

Haven't had a balance shaft in my engine for over 4 years (even prior to building, no balance shaft.) And my car breaks stock PMMs.

[Erich]

Just to update. CP-e sent me a PM yesterday asking me to contact them. I called them this morning (was at the office yesterday and they were closed by the time I left.) They took a deposit and are sending a replacement out today with a pre-paid label to send the defective mount back with. I also wanted for the weekend and asked for 3 day at my expense, which Chris did while only charging me the difference in cost between 3-day and ground.

[Standsideways]

thats good to hear^^

[Erich]

Received the mount today. They are now anodizing the bushing cover black (was raw aluminum on the defective mount.) Also, they sent the wrong duro. Mount I ordered is 75, mount that came today is 60. Have a PM into them to see if I can swap the bushings with out voiding my warranty. If I don't hear back from them before Monday, I will call (they indicated in the recall thread that occasionally they will respond to PMs on MSF during the weekend.)

[Erich]

Talked with CP-e today. They shipped out another mount, no deposit this time. They didn't want me to swap the bushing (apparently it is a press fit, was willing to do it anyways but they preferred I didn't.) Replacement for the replacement won't be here until monday, but they are refunding what I payed to upgrade to 3-day since it was wasted money.

So far:
Pros: Extremely easy to work with. Flexible in offered solutions.
Cons: Will be 4+ weeks from when I reported the issue until I am able to replace the part on my car. A lot of that is just bad luck though.

[I Love Brownies]

Originally Posted by Erich Talked with CP-e today. They shipped out another mount, no deposit this time. They didn't want me to swap the bushing (apparently it is a press fit, was willing to do it anyways but they preferred I didn't.) Replacement for the replacement won't be here until monday, but they are refunding what I payed to upgrade to 3-day since it was wasted money. So far: Pros: Extremely easy to work with. Flexible in offered solutions. Cons: Will be 4+ weeks from when I reported the issue until I am able to replace the part on my car. A lot of that is just bad luck though.

What happened to your stage 5 ptp mounts?

[Erich]

Originally Posted by I Love Brownies What happened to your stage 5 ptp mounts?

I had them set off to the side in a bucket and some asshole ran them over and burned them up.

[jack_hammer]

fuuuuuuu

[Erich]

So not at all CP-e's fault, but UPS decided that I hadn't already waited long enough and held the package for an extra day in Maryland. UPS, as a policy, will hold the package somewhere to make sure it doesn't get there early. But if they mess up, no way in hell they will upgrade it to make sure it gets there on time. Just moved the scheduled delivery date out to accomodate their fuck up.

[www.cp-e.com]

Originally Posted by Erich So not at all CP-e's fault, but UPS decided that I hadn't already waited long enough and held the package for an extra day in Maryland. UPS, as a policy, will hold the package somewhere to make sure it doesn't get there early. But if they mess up, no way in hell they will upgrade it to make sure it gets there on time. Just moved the scheduled delivery date out to accomodate their fuck up.

Ugh...what next...Sorry about this whole mess. Hit me up next time you want to buy something from us.

[Erich]

Part is here and on the car. Will be shipping back the defective and 60 duro mounts today. I guess I just had to add my own idiocy to this whole thing. Pulling my car up on to the ramps, for some reason the ramps (which between my wife's car, my car and stuff I have done for my neighbors I have used at least 100 times) slid on the garage floor and ended up kicked all the way through (car made it to 6-12" behind where it should have, ramps ended up under the front fenders where the side skirts attached.) Ramps collapsed quite a bit, limiting the damage to the side skirt and fenders, but will likely have to separate the side skirts from the fenders fix it. Replacing the cheep Schuck's ramps with raceramps to hopefully avoid anything similar from happening again.

Thanks to CP-e for working with me on this, they were definitely reasonable and accommodating about the whole thing.

[Erich]

Only about 200 miles since the mount went in and vibrations are settling substantially. It probably helps that the other two mounts now have over 1000 miles on them. I am guessing a lot of people would have some level of issue with the vibrations still, but as they are now I am good with them. I will update again in a few months on how they are holding up.