My CPE MS6 FMIC adventure

[Speedie6]

I'm having my big turbo installed next week. Until now, I had an ETS TMIC, but, upgraded to the CPE FMIC to prepare for the BT. I'm having a shop do the 'heavy lifting' but, I figured I could handle the FMIC. I did, but it was, at least for me, a big damn job.

I know some people are going with bigger cores the CPE's, and doing various piping kits or do it yourself. But, I wanted 'guaranteed to fit first time', so, I went CPE. So, I was disappointed to have fitment problems.

The kit comes with a tray that the FMIC sits on. Its pretty cool actually. But, a few issues. First, it has three tabs for mounting. One was off, hole didn't line up. So, I got out my Dremel tool to widen out the hole and I guess I was too aggressive and burned up my Dremel tool motor. Grrr!!

I got the hole bigger with a drill and it fits. And, it is a nice piece. Kinda a skid plate, at least for the very front. But, you have to remove the front splitter! That makes the front of the car not look right, to me.

In fact, when I was reading the instructions, it said to remove the splitter. I was confused and thought it meant the upper grill. There were no pictures for this step. Since I misunderstood, I'm looking at the bumper trying to figure out why I'm supposed to remove the upper grille. I didn't figure it out until I tried to put the bumper cover back on and it won't fit anymore.

Speaking of pictures, the ones that were in the book sucked. They are small. And, washed out, like it was printed with a 10 year-old printer, or left in the sun or something, so hard to make out.

And, get this, the instructions say, to look at the picture but it won't actually look like the picture because the pictures were taken of an earlier version of the kit. WFT? An $1100 kit and you can't take new pictures? So, I got small, faded pictures that aren't even of my kit. WTF?

Another place in the instructions it says to take a grinder to the recirculation hose. WFT? How do you grind a hose??? I figured it must be a typo, but, I never did figure out what it was I was supposed to grind. The picture for the grinding step seemed to point to the stock shifter weight. I have the Cobb weight, but, it looks to me there is enough room even if I had the stock weight. But maybe some people need to trim the shifter weight. No idea.

The kit came with a short connecting hose to connect to the turbo - a 2" pipe turbo like the GT30 series. It didn't come with a hose for hooking to a stock turbo. Now, I'm getting a BT next week, but, for the moment, I needed to hook to the stock turbo and I got nothing. Though, I suppose perhaps most people buy this kit for big turbos, but surely not everybody? I actually expected the opposite, for it to only come with hose to the stock turbo customers would have to buy their own for BT's. It would be nice to include both, but, certainly its gotta come with a hose for a stock turbo no? I guess not.

So, since I was sitting there with no hose to connect to my stock turbo, what to do? I couldn't think of anything else but to hack my current boost tube. It had a 45 degree elbow, but cut it in the middle and made due. I intended on selling off my SU boost tubes, but, sure the hell can't now. Thanks, CPE!

The kit comes with 9 basic hose clamps. I would expect an $1100 kit to include T-bolt clamps. They are like $3.00 ea at Silicone Intakes. I happened to have some in stock from back when I sold turbo inlet pipes. I didn't have quite enough, so I used some of the hose clamps. I'll order some more and replace the clamps.

The kit moves the location of the BOV. I'm not sure I like the position, it is about as close to the throttle body as it could possibly be. No real way to install a WI bung. This sucks.

Since it moves the BOV, my old silicone recirc hose was too short. It comes with 1" heater hose. Um, the hose is 1 1/8" guys! WTF good is that 1" hose for? Maybe The Hulk could get it to stretch enough to fit. But I couldn't. I went to 3 parts stores and none had 1 1/8" heater hose. I did manage to scrounge up something to make a temporary frankenhose out of pieces of 1 1/8 hose I had sitting around. But, that damn 1" hose it came with really torqued me off. Thanks, CPE!

The kit comes with 2.25" piping. The throttle body is about 2.75", so, the cold pipe is expanded out just an inch away from the throttle body. This doesn't seem ideal to me, but, I guess I'm no expert. But, I'm seriously considering fabbing up a different cold pipe that is 2.75 for a longer distance, and moves the BOV farther away from the throttle body and put in WI bung. For an $1100 kit, I shouldn't be needing to consider fabbing up replacement parts already.

The kit comes with a cute little bracket to hold the pipes in place. And, it comes with the bolts and locking nuts. Except the screws are too short and even with no washers, the threads would not go all the way through the nut to reach the locking part of the nut. C'mon guys! So, I used locking compound.

Okay, so, after struggling with the kit, it is installed. And, really, overall, its a nice kit. Just a few screwups on the parts that I really expected better for. But, I'm still not sold on the no front splitter. Not sure what to do about that.

[mghtymouse380]

Post some pics of your install please.

[FADE2GRY]

The requirement to remove the front splitter is a deal breaker for me so I completely understand your issue. For me, there is no acceptable FMIC kits available for the MS6. Every one has a deal breaker of some kind, either you need to hack up the crash bar, reloacate the washer fluid tank, or remove the splitter.

Some of your installation problems are pretty serious. No proper hose to the turbo? At least you managed solved them. Kudos. They would have stumped me and I would be mightly pissed at cp-e. I guess the lesson for the readers is that you need to talk to cp-e before you buy so you get what you really need. I'm sure you saved others a few heartaches/headaches by posting your experience.

Thanks! (and good luck with your BT)

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by mghtymouse380 Post some pics of your install please.

I was planning on waiting for the BT to be installed before posting pics. I might go ahead and post some today if I have time, but I might not.

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 The kit moves the location of the BOV. I'm not sure I like the position, it is about as close to the throttle body as it could possibly be. No real way to install a WI bung. This sucks.

Not that this really makes it any better, but do they sell a throttle body spacer for the MS6? If so, you might be able to tap a nozzle into that.

Sucks about all the issues though...

[Jedyboyrokr]

yeah deal breaker for me to, if you have to remove the spliter. i like altered customs kit, i forget which core it is but it doesnt hang very low......pics please!

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by FADE2GRY The requirement to remove the front splitter is a deal breaker for me so I completely understand your issue. For me, there is no acceptable FMIC kits available for the MS6. Every one has a deal breaker of some kind, either you need to hack up the crash bar, reloacate the washer fluid tank, or remove the splitter.

AutoExe makes a CF front splitter, that looks like it might be compatible. Not certain. But, its $600 or so. And I read one review of it that says that since it just bolts to the bumper cover, it flexes a lot and he thinks it'll probably break. So, that doesn't sound like a great option.

I might could hack my stock splitter, cutting away most of it, to try to make it look closer to stock.

The crash bar looks like it just unbolts. A part that somebody should make, except that it would probably be cost prohibitive. But, it should be possible to fab a replacement out of thicker aluminum and wind up with equal or better strength, lighter, and smaller profile.

Originally Posted by jwilkins88 Not that this really makes it any better, but do they sell a throttle body spacer for the MS6? If so, you might be able to tap a nozzle into that.

Yeah, there is the Race Roots spacer. They do offer WI taps for it, so, that is a possibility. But I plan to bore out my TB. I guess I could get the spacer bored out too.

There is also the PTP freeze plug WI fitting, but, there is some evidence that the PTP part doesn't provide equal distribution of the meth to each cylinder.

Overall, I'm still leaning to fabbing up a different cold pipe.

[jwilkins88]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 Overall, I'm still leaning to fabbing up a different cold pipe.

+1

That'd probably be your best option. I have no idea what piping on the MS6 looks like, but that seems like the best option

[qtrmile beast]

Wow simply wow..... I told you the one that I have on my car was already tapped for WI... Also I want to see where they moved the BOV because I have plenty of room for my WI install the BOV is about 8" away from the throttle... Good luck with your set up sorry you are having so many problems....

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by qtrmile beast Wow simply wow..... I told you the one that I have on my car was already tapped for WI... Also I want to see where they moved the BOV because I have plenty of room for my WI install the BOV is about 8" away from the throttle... Good luck with your set up sorry you are having so many problems....

Yeah, you did say that. But, I didn't know the kit had changed. I don't think I'll get a chance to get pics up today. On yours, does the cold pipe expand like 1" before the end of the pipe? The current BOV location is less than a inch away from where it expands.

[www.cp-e.com]

I will forward this to the mechanical dept, see what they have to say about it.

Sorry to hear about all of your troubles.

Sander

[danesti]

all of your issues remind me of when I had the CPE front mount on my car.
Lenny and I tried to install my meth nozzle with a silicone coupler tap for the cold pipe-to-throttle body connection.
Dont. shit didnt work and i was left with a hacked up coupler.
I also had to take a grinder to my shift weight because it was hitting my cold pipe and I couldnt get into certain gears.

When I put my big turbo on I had to order a few things from silicone couplers to make it work because the ATP turbos compressor outlet sit a few inches lower in the car than the k04.
This pic is of the stock boost tube ghetto stretched to fit. haha
The clamps that it came with sucked.

[Speedie6]

I didn't get a chance to take pics yesterday. Sorry. Will do when I get the BT done.

I drove to Dallas last night. It was chilly last night, and, I didn't drive too hard, just occasional boost to pass someone or something. But, even under similar modest driving conditions my old ETS would be pretty warm. My CPE FMIC was ice cold. Again, I know that's not any real test, but, still, I expected the FMIC to be at least a little warm -- so I was pleased to find it ice cold. So, I guess I can say I'm happy with the performance of it so far.

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com I will forward this to the mechanical dept, see what they have to say about it. Sorry to hear about all of your troubles. Sander

You need to forward it to your customer relations dept too and think about refunding some of the OP's money to cover his extra cost to make your "kit" work...

And while you're at it, you might wanna talk to Lenny127 about your "piece of shit" large mouth turbo inlet pipe we installed today during his 3071 install...

[Speedie6]

I stopped by a fab shop to discuss the possibility of making a new cold pipe. He actually discouraged business, didn't think it was worth it. He figured that not much meth would go out the BOV if I can get the meth bung even 1/4" in front of it. I guess I'll have to take it off and see if I can get that. Its all very close.

I've got a basic question on airflow. I understand that with forced induction, you need smaller piping than a normally aspirated. For example, the 3071 has a 2" pipe coming out of it. So, presumably 2" is big enough. And so the 2.25" piping of the kit should be good enough to handle. But if that is the case, then why is the throttle body so much larger? And, people say the throttle body is a limiter and some people are getting theirs bored out bigger.

So, if 2" or 2.25" is big enough, what is the deal with the throttle body?

The reason I ask is, the cold pipe sure looks wrong to me, but, the fab shop I went to said it made no difference. As I said in my OP, the cold pipe is made of 2.25" piping. About an inch from the end, it is expanded out to 2.5". then the kit includes a 2.5" to 2.75" coupler to connect to the TB. So, it goes from 2.25 to 2.75 in two steps over a distance of 2" to 3" away from the TB. Again, the fab shop said it makes no difference since the pipe is only 2.25", but, it just seems wrong to me.

What i was thinking might make sense would be to build that pipe primarily out of 2.75" and have the transition to 2.25" farther away from the TB. If nothing else, I thought that might make for less turbulence at the TB. That was what I was asking the fab shop to make, but he said it would make no difference.

Can someone clear this up?

[claytonmk]

Should have gone with Cobb's FMIC version 2. Their stuff is better quality.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by claytonmk Should have gone with Cobb's FMIC version 2. Their stuff is better quality.

They don't make an MS6 kit.

I have noticed that everybody, CPE included, for MS3 kits, make the intercooler run side to side. The CPE core for the MS6 is fairly small, compared to about everything else, and even compared to their MS3 kit.

[Mistersix]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 They don't make an MS6 kit. I have noticed that everybody, CPE included, for MS3 kits, make the intercooler run side to side. The CPE core for the MS6 is fairly small, compared to about everything else, and even compared to their MS3 kit.

That is because a side to side core would require relocation of the washer fluid tank on the speed 6. I suppose cp-e thought this would be a turn off for most buyers. But an incomplete kit that requires modifications to fit passed as acceptable for most buyers.

[superskaterxes]

not to burst your bubble, but you just bought a power limiter. that IC was designed for the stock turbo and nothing else. pipes and core are too small for a BT and everyone will agree.

and all that shit you had to do is BS. i would call and ask for a refund and make your own FMIC for 1/4 the price u paid.

[Speedie6]

I've been hesitant to post in this thread, as I figured people are wondering what the status of my BT upgrade is. Car has been off the road for about a month due to "complications". Hopefully in the next few days.

Before I bought the CPE, I did consider a couple of other options. I did know that some people are "rolling their own", and I'd seen some piping kits where you buy the core yourself and a piping kit. But, the actual grille area on the car is lousy small, with the crash bar blocking part of it. I've seen huge side to side cores, but most of it not actually getting any air. So, I kinda figured that the CPE was as good as anything. I could have erred in that assessment, but, that was my thinking.

That, and, I didn't see any more piping kits. I checked PG and they didn't have any MS6 piping kit. I could've possibly rolled my own piping kit, but, I was thinking that would take me for fucking ever and I wasn't sure I'd do a good job. So, I decided I wanted something that would fit first time, as I expected the CPE kit to. Perhaps I erred in my assessment, but, that was my thinking.

As far as the pipe size, well, that's seems to me to be debatable. There are 600 WHP cars out there with 56 mm throttle bodies. And the turbo itself only has a 2" exit pipe.

But, then again, our throttle bodies are 60 mm, or about 2 3/8", so, I overall wish they had gone with 2.5" piping. I'm not sure it would make that much difference, but, maybe some.

Its annoying that, to my understanding, the CPE MS3 kit comes with a bigger core and 2.5" pipes on the core. So, yeah, they could have made this a better kit.

[Speedie6]

Perhaps its a stupidly elaborate idea, and one that would be too expensive for very many buyers. But, what I thought might be a nice design would be to redesign the crash bar out of thicker aluminum so that it could have a thinner profile and unblocking the grille, lighter weight, and yet as strong/safe as the stock unit. Then design a custom core to fit the location, with mounting provided to the new crash bar. And, 2.5" piping. Possibly under engine, some people have been experimenting with that design and say that it gets shorter pipes and no need to pull washer tank. That would fix all the problems, but, cost prohibitive.

[sellers]

I also have the CP-E kit. Didn't have any problems with the couplers, or getting the BPV hose to fit. Mine was long enough...I do agree that the instructions are shitty as fuck for a MSRP of $1000, and jesus christ, T-Clamps please?

[Speedie6]

I promised pics long ago. I'll try to get pics up this weekend. My BT is finally installed.

[qtrmile beast]

I also promised to take pics of my CPE cold pipe and bov location so i will get to that by tomorrow.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by qtrmile beast I also promised to take pics of my CPE cold pipe and bov location so i will get to that by tomorrow.

Your "tomorrow" was as wrong as mine. LOL. I FINALLY got my car back. At the moment, I'm just going to focus on the BOV. Its probably not a bad location for most people. Its just not friendly to putting water injection bung as the BOV is right next to the throttle body. Here's a closeup:



I understand that an earlier version of the kit had the BOV located further down that cold pipe. Which I would think would be a better location, but I guess it depends on each person's setup. I was considering fabbing up a replacement cold pipe that was more like the original design of CPE's, but with a few tweaks. But, I had Cobb install an AOS and all the hoses for that now run where I wanted to put the BOV. I could probably still do it, and just push the AOS hoses around a bit. It also looks to me like they didn't orient the top radiator hose in its normal position because I don't think it used to be so close to the BOV: