Newly Installed SB = Stutter around 3k

[possom]

Today I installed my standback. Before installing it i cleared the memory and reset the defaults on the Configuration page.

I first disconnected the battery, plugged in the pnp harness, plugged in the SB itself. I did not connect the led or switch yet.

After reconnecting the battery, I was pleasantly surprised it started right up, so I assume theres no chance i hooked up anything wrong.

I drove for a few miles, taking it easy, and everything seemed fine. When i went WOT, the car stuttered violently at 3k rpm. This has never happened before installing the SB.

I am able to reproduce it, but it doesnt always happen. It does happen more often than not, and I also had it happen once up in the 5k rpm range.

It is like the engine is stalling, fuel is cut, or something.

I was ready to log the variables to start tuning so I have a log of those during the issue, and later i ran logs with fuel pressure.

Can anyone shed any light? Is this something that needs to be tuned out or is something wrong or being damaged?

I unplugged the SB and the car wont even start. Is there a way for me to bypass it without taking the PNP harness back out?


SB settings
Log of "tuning variables" see the dip and regain of rpm around 3k. I had the peddle pressed.
Second log with fuel pressure, MAF, boost.

Another

[phailerider]

out of curiousity...what are the temps of these logs. it looks like youre running out of fuel, and temps may also be affecting this. i did when i ran my car at 17psi with full boltons in cold temps. anytime i hit full boost, massive cut would follow a second later.

[possom]

low to mid 60s

i noticed the drop in fuel just prior to the stutter. i hadnt logged fuel prior to installing the sb, so dont know if that drop was normal or a reaction to the stutter itself.

[phailerider]

youve still got a bypass plug right?

[possom]

im not aware that i do... what is that?

i have extra wires with the led and switch, and there seems to be a wire with a connector coming off the SB, but no "plug"

does that go in the standback harness?

[possom]

i suppose its this..

http://www.cp-e.com/imgs/SB_bypass_pic_big.jpg

no =( i dont have that. i bought the unit used and guess it wasnt sent.

[dadasracecar]

Out of curiosity, what gear were you in when it cut?

[possom]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar Out of curiosity, what gear were you in when it cut?

version 2, "alpha v 2.10.2". Jordan said 2.5 will be posted soon on their front page when i emailed last week.

3rd and 4th. doesnt seem to be an issue in 1st/2nd


ill log those variables tomorrow.

[timv]

Originally Posted by possom version 2, "alpha v 2.10.2". Jordan said 2.5 will be posted soon on their front page when i emailed last week. 3rd and 4th. doesnt seem to be an issue in 1st/2nd ill log those variables tomorrow.

The version 2.5 is already posted in the standback tuning for dummies thread stickied to the top of the saloon page.....
I think it is on page 3.....
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...icial-q-3.html

post number 98.....

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by timv The version 2.5 is already posted in the standback tuning for dummies thread stickied to the top of the saloon page..... I think it is on page 3..... http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...icial-q-3.html post number 98.....

Just a suggestion to Randy, you should have a separate sticky for firmware updates.

[JumpingJackson]

Log your DI fuel pressure and MAF volts as well

[phailerider]

if the standback is truly zeroed out... whats the purpose of more logs?

[JumpingJackson]

To see if his MAF is maxed out and to see if his fuel pressure is dipping.

[LBV]

Back when I had the PnP Standback I started to get the stutter only after I hooked up the map switch. Before it was fine ... you'll likely have to send it back for a double-check of the hardware like was mentioned.

[possom]

Just an update:

I pulled the harness and sb from the car this morning for my 30 mile commute so no additional logs.

Spoke with Jordan he wants to inspect my unit :javanc: so sending it in.

[gsrtype1]

yo home slice.. So it kept doing it even after you drove around for a while? Cuase my car has cut like that after resetting the ecu but then goes away after like an hour..

[possom]

Originally Posted by gsrtype1 yo home slice.. So it kept doing it even after you drove around for a while? Cuase my car has cut like that after resetting the ecu but then goes away after like an hour..

Well, i drove for a bit; about 5 miles maybe, and it kept happening. I parked the car until the evening and went and tested again after some replies here, and it kept happening.


Since then, i found out that this SB had the same issue with the previous owner, so im assuming its the SB, not my car. good news and bad news.

I'll update once Jordan and CP-E have taken a gander. Thanks for everyones help and if the news is good later, ill be back to tune.

[gsrtype1]

Ahh yeah if u got the SB used and the prevous owner had that prob then sounds like most likely that particular unit..

[possom]

Update:

Jordan found a bad memory module on the SB and repaired. Unit tested out on their virtual test and is on the way back.

I also have the bypass plug now.

Look forward to getting it back in and trying again.

I'll update this thread with results and hope to be following through the tuning for dummies this weekend.

[possom]

Got the Standback in and still have the same issue. Runs fine with bypass plug in.

I've discussed with Jordan and we are still exploring other causes.

I've become more comfortable with the behavior so can now experiment and it seems like this may be boost related. Only under substantial load/throttle does the "hiccup" happen and by eyeballing my boost gauge it seems to be happning around 13-14psi.

Jordan has seen similar behavior before with the SB connected and after replacing the BPV, the problem was resolved. He assumes that the BPV was not holding boost and the SB didnt like it, and only had the problem with the SB due to increased spooling speed.

I have a the turbosmart dual port BPV in recirc mode. When i first installed it, there was some surge noise and backfiring until i adjusted it. My car spikes to as much as 22lbs of boost normally, and seems to hold well after that, so last night with the SB in, i LOOSENED the valve an entire turn, 1/4 turn at a time, and the problem didnt seem to change at all.

Tonight I will try tightening, but it doesnt seem like its too loose or i wouldnt be holding boost.

Anyone had experience like this with the TS (or other adjustable valve) causing severe backfiring or stall-like behavior after putting in the SB?
Anyone have the TS on and can tell me the approximate space between the housing and the adjusting "Screw"?
Any suggestions on tighten or loosen and how far?
Is it safe to just loosen it way up or tighten it way down to see if i can kill the issue, then adjust from there based on boost hold?
Is spiking to 22 a sign that its too tight?

When i turn off the engine, put the bypass plug in, and start back up, i have a CEL referring to fuel pressure rail or something. I clear it and it doesnt return. Is this normal? Other than the CEL, car runs fine with bypass in.

Jordan has also asked me to log some and i will do that later today and post them here.


UPDATE:
Had the SB in on my 30 mile drive home and this is definately boost (or load) related, not RPM.
No issue going through gears at mild throttle. I have pretty muchh tightened the BOV all the way down and the problem is still there. Not sure if it improved. I am going to install my stock BPV and see what happens.

Logs of the issue below.

[JumpingJackson]

I wasnt a huge fan of my turbosmart bpv either.. I switched to the synapse and havent looked back. (You have to make sure the synapse is set up correctly, most people dont have it setup correctly and then complain when it doesnt work right)

[gsrtype1]

If you can't figure it out we will install my standback zeored out on your car to see if it still does it..

[possom]

UPDATE:
Called Turbosmart and they say it sounds like i need a stiffer spring. Put my stock BPV on, and same problem.

I put both maps at 15lbs and changed the kd from 100 to 40 (since i had seen both suggested before as the starting point). Same problem but maybe lighter.

I put both maps at 12lbs and put 12 in the tuning chart for boost for both maps and the problem "goes away". I did have a backfire holding it at full boost once but probably not related.

So... it seems likely that the BPV is not holding at higher pressures? What changes is the SB making that cause the BPVs (both) to fail? 15psi should be 15psi right? Why can it hold 15 without the SB, but not with it? I am surprised noone else has had this issue with the standard turbosmart valve. Maybe i just have a weak spring.

[LBV]

Originally Posted by possom UPDATE: Called Turbosmart and they say it sounds like i need a stiffer spring. .

Not sure if it can be done with the TurboSmart, but you can get the same effect of a stiffer spring by installing washer(s) on 1 end of the spring.

[possom]

Originally Posted by LBV Not sure if it can be done with the TurboSmart, but you can get the same effect of a stiffer spring by installing washer(s) on 1 end of the spring.

Theyre going to get me the part number to order and try.

[possom]

should boost be specified in BOTH the config page and the table? I've read that you can use either to control the boost, but how is it handled if both are entered?

Tried 13psi today and it still has no issue.

[jmhinkle]

According to your SB settings, your clip is set for 13 and you are trying to run 17psi. There is no way in hell that would work on my car. My car would cut with the stock setup. I learned when I started with the ATP FCD that I had to adjust it down until the ECU saw no more than 12psi or it would revolt. Once I upgraded to the SB same issue, ECU cannot see more than 12 psi no matter what boost you are attempting to run. The screwy part is that what the clip is set to isn't what the ECU actually sees. I had the same issue with my FCD as well. My clip is at 8 and my ECU sees 11. My car is happy there and will allow tuning to take place.

[possom]

I've set clip as low as 8 and still had the stutter. Safe to go lower?

[jmhinkle]

I think you need to speak with Dickey_P. He is a Colorado guy and had an issue that sounds similiar to yours. I believe he ended up with a reflash of his ECU.

[possom]

UPDATE:

With standback, hits and holds 14psi with stock or TS bov.

Jordan has replied to my emails saying:

"Why do I think a SB 15psi causes this problem, whereas a Mazda 15psi does not?
Maybe the throttle isn’t opening quickly enough (pressure in the intake tract and vacuum in the manifold opens the BPV) and the BPV opens briefly? I don’t know. What I do know is that I’ve seen this issue before, but really didn’t get a clear explanation as to /what exactly/ caused it."

He has sent me a slower spool tune with KD at 400, kp at 20, ki .150 and clip at 6 (i havent tried below 8 and had playing with that suggested somewhere else but wasnt sure how safe it was). I'll try this tonight. I am still waiting on part# for a spring from streetunit or turbosmart.

I was very excited when i examined my boost tubes the other day and discovered that the clamp at the top of my CAI was crooked and not tight.. thinking this MUST be the problem. Fixed that up and still the same issue /cry

Issue still seems very strange and may still end up sending the SB back to Jordan again if this spool change doesnt show signs of improvement.

Also, on the CEL codes, i was having them every time i removed the SB And put the bypass in. I read somewhere that there is still some activeity shortly after the engine is turned off, and I have been waiting ~20 seconds after swapping out, and havent seen the CEL codes since.

Still welcoming any suggestions on this, and trying them one at a time. Also, still looking for someone in Houston area to try a SB Swap with, if you know anyone. gsrtype1 has offered but is a little far for me to connect with until well after the holidays.

[possom]

BETTER!

Huge noticable difference with this new turbo config. There still is a little sputter, but it may be backfiring and adjustable with the BPV tension. I ran 15psi then 17psi. I dont quite reach those values according to my boost gauge, but real close and sure that can be adjusted with the advanced settings.

Tomorrow or later this week I will play more with the advanced boost settings to see if it was the clip kd, ki, etc.

Two logs.. You can see the slight hiccup i feel at 4250rpms.

Drove to work and was able to play some more. 2nd gear doesnt seem to have a problem at all. 3rd 4th and 5th still do and it seems the issue is when i put the peddle to the floor. 1/2, 3/4 throttle still is fine, and builds boost fast, but as soon as i go from that throttle to the floor, it builds more and hiccups, although not as viloently as before.

Im going to log RPM/MAF/Absolute throttle/Actual Pedal/AFR and RPM/Intake pressure/Boost/Pressure ratio/Absolute throttle later.

[possom]

Still having issues today. BUT, not always. Narrowing this down to throttle position i think. Maybe getting closer to seeeing that it IS the standback? Like theres just some spot in the maps where it is corrupt? Not sure. See this zoomed in log.

Can anyone explain why the MAF volts are dropping like a rock during the stutter? what could cause this?

[gsrtype1]

Damm sucks your still having issues bro!

[JumpingJackson]

Have you logged fuel pressure yet? you might need a fuel pump in this cold weather

[possom]

fuel pressure isnt an issue.. ive logged it and its fine.

I've been wondering if its MAF related... and just cleaned my sensor. sooooo far *knock on wood* it is behaving flawlessly. Gave it a thorough spray down inside and out.

I'm not hitting my target boost but can work on that now as i tune.

I'm going to try to tune some today and will see if this holds up.

[possom]

after cleaning my MAF the car ran great at 15psi map but iits peaking 15-15.5 and then dipping back down to ~14psi

I tuned fuel some since it was running well, see attached after just a couple runs.

then i changed my boost to 17 to see what happened. Same problem =/

Watching ym boost gauge, it seems like as soon as it starts holding 16psi, it starts freaking out. Tightened the BOV a little and same problem.

Fuel pressure is fine throughout.

MAF clean definately made a difference. I cant imagine it needing to be cleaned more. Maybe it needs to be replaced, but doesnt seem right since it functions fine without the SB.


will try reverting back to the slower spool settings Jordan sent me and see what happens since that definately seemed to help.

I know boost clip is working because my DH wont log over the boost clip, but it seems like its directly related to boost still. Either the SB controller is fubar and cant handle boost control at or above 16psi, or i guess my BOV could be opening.

I doubt many are reading this anymore due to the monotony and lack of results. If I cant figure this out over the holidays, ill try to trade out the SB.

I did have another person say changing to colder plug resolved this for them, and also found another person who had the same issue and swapped out the SB onsite at CPE and it went away.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[possom]

reverted back to jordan's slow spool settings:

kp=20
kd=400
ki=.150
clip=6

HOLDING 16psi now, no stutter!!

Cleaning the MAf definately helped, changing to these settings again (which seemed to help before), fixed the issue.

I will continue to work with jordan or whoever chimes in on getting to, and holding 17psi, but it looks like its starting to work well now.

Still may goto colder plugs in the future to see what happens.

Feel free to chime in with any insight as to what may be going on.

my mods are:
cpe single exhaust
su test pipe
ms cai
turbosmart bov

not sure if my car was ever flashed for a tsb. not while ive owned it.

consider this thread close to closed!

[possom]

last night, back to stuttering again. back down to stock boost levels, stutter. clean MAF again, stutter.

i am throwing in the towel and will discuss replacement with jordan after the holidays.