The REAL dangers of MAP clamps/Boost cut disabling (or lackthereof)

[www.cp-e.com]

There is a thread in the ECU section by JumpingJackson which illustrates the dangers of MAP clamps and boost cut disabling, but the thread was unfortunately locked before I had a chance to rebut his argument.

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...disabling.html

I would have appreciated the opportunity to respond to some of his comments, so I opted to start a new thread in our section with OUR perspective on the matter. I think in order to learn or gain anything from any discussion, there needs to be two sides. Otherwise we're just talking


Phil, I don't think anyone is going to argue with you that they're going to be any safer eliminating a safety device. Nor do I think anyone can argue with your opinion. However, your argument is based on a heck of a lot of speculation. Who is to say that the two examples you referenced would have been saved by the fuel cut?? To be fair, wouldn't it make sense to then post examples of where the fuel cut /didn't/ save an engine from failure? How about this one, where this person was running an AP with the fuel cut still enabled:

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...she-blows.html

Please tell me how I can better illustrate my point that the fuel cut is a flawed safety feature. I could rattle off another dozen examples where the fuel cut did nothing to save an engine. Do you think those folks would agree with your assessment?

Originally Posted by jumpingjackson Pretty much the *only* recourse at this point your ECU has to mitigate this situation is to close the throttle plate. Now if you have your MAP sensor clamped via a piggyback with a built in MAP clamp or an other standard map clamp your ECU has no idea that it is running insane levels of boost. How can you expect it to boost cut if your lying to it about how much boost your running?

I'm also sorry that you wrapped the Standback into this argument because you're not providing accurate information regarding our MAP clamp. Our MAP is typically clamped at 10psi or so, which means when you exceed that pressure the SB will always report 10psi to the ECU. However, in the condition where boost is out of control, the Standback will pass the MAP signal through so the ECU may cut fuel if the conditions are right. So in no way does the Standback's MAP clamp prevent the fuel cut from operating. Your statement about our product is not accurate.


I think I see where you're coming from Phil, I just don't agree with your assessment that people are necessarily in danger if they remove the fuel cut, and that liability waivers should be involved. You're operating on a lot of speculation, whereas I have first-hand insight as to how the function works, and I think you're painting a bit of a doomsday scenario for everyone. We've stated many times that the people using this flash will mostly be folks that are fully bolted or have big turbos. These guys by and large have a good understanding of how engines work, and don't need a nanny to tell them when something is wrong. If someone can't recognize a serious engine problem when it's happening, then I wouldn't recommend this flash to them. Period. If you're going to argue otherwise, I think you've got an uphill battle ahead of you

The bottom line: Engines blow up if you have the fuel cut enabled or not. The best defense from engine failure is knowing when to take your foot out of it. If you can't figure out when to do that, then don't mod your car!! Otherwise, the fuel cut eliminating flash can be a great way for someone to enjoy their car regardless of outside temperature, altitude, or any other silliness that would otherwise rain on someone's parade. Thanks again for starting a dialogue Phil.

[MZRDISI4]

To be fair, wouldn't it make sense to then post examples of where the fuel cut /didn't/ save an engine from failure? How about this one, where this person was running an AP with the fuel cut still enabled: There she blows!!!!

Fuel cut had absolutely nothing to do with that failure.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 Fuel cut had absolutely nothing to do with that failure.

the car was overboosting and fuel cutting, eventually it blew up.

[kingpin748]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 Fuel cut had absolutely nothing to do with that failure.

Neither do most of the blown engines. What's your point?

[dadasracecar]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 Fuel cut had absolutely nothing to do with that failure.

I would hope fuel cut didn't cause that failure. It certainly didn't prevent it.

[dadasracecar]

Originally Posted by kingpin748 Neither do most of the blown engines. What's your point?

The point is that fuel cut is a useless nuisance for these cars.

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar The point is that fuel cut is a useless nuisance for these cars.

Exactly!

I never hit fuel cut in a situation where it would hve been usefull, but hit it more times than I care remember at WOT with afr's in the high eleven's and no Knock...

[JumpingJackson]

As i said in another thread i *personally* wouldnt sell *any* tuning device that is tuned by the customer without some sort of disclaimer and to the extreme an actual liability waiver. Customers/People arent perfect, they have a tendency to make mistakes and do stupid things. Hell im one of them. Maybe im just paranoid

I never said the fuel cut was perfect or works in every scenario. In fact i have openly stated the exact opposite. In stock form the fuel cut is a huge obstical in increasing the power of the car.
I dont even know the algorithm or all of the variables involved but i am fairly certain the MAP sensor is one them otherwise why clamp the MAP at all? I'm also fairly certain the ECU can detect an overboost condition. the question is what is the best course of action when the car does overboost? I would argue that it would be best to have it simply close the throttle plate and reduce fuel just like the driver stopped pressing the gas peddle and have it throw a CEL. But once again I can only speculate

Maybe the best solution is to remove the stock boost cut alltogether, but add in your own simple boost cut that is adjustable by user/tuner. That way you have a margin of safety if you do overboost. I think we can all agree the overboosting is a bad thing and something should be done about it. What the best course of option is i dont know for certain.

My opinion is based solely of my personaly experience and from what i have read. I would *love* to have a constructive debate about why im wrong without it devolving into personal attacks and thread shitting. That is why i made that first post in your FCF new feature thread because i wanted to learn more and also why i made the dangers of map clamps thread. Yes I realize now that i probably should have left out or reworded the liability bit in my post in randy's section. My intent was never to attack the Standback/FCF or CP-E or any of their products. The only reason it was ever mentioned was because the Standback does infact an adjustable MAP clamp that is preset to be enabled from the factory. I think it would be silly to specifically not mention a product that has does have a MAP Clamp feature when i am talking specifically about MAP clamps. Notice how I also mentioned ATP's map clamp and map clamps in general. I was not specifically targeting the Standback or the FCF in my post.

My post was to state that the danger exists, to exactly what degree i cannot say.
and i did my best to back my claims up by giving examples of peoples who engines blew due to overboosting while having some sort of MAP clamp enabled. Obviously we don't have time machines so we dont know what would have happened if they did have an unclamped MAP sensor. Obviously with the stock fuel cut + unclamped map sensor they never would have been able to make that much boost before hitting a cut in the first place (They still could have damaged their engines even if they did get a cut however).

[aaronc7]

i think a better boost cut/fuel cut system would be good. The one time i boosted 24+ psi in 5th gear (who knows how high, MAP wont read any higher), it didnt feel like cutting then, ha

[dadasracecar]

Your posts my be relevant if we were talking about a properly engineered or even predictable fuel cut scenario. Because these cars don't have that, the fuel cut is useless and should be removed. Give it up dude. You're just pissing everyone off.

[SneakyP86]

I totally agree with you there is nothing worse than the false security that this Fuel Cut can instill in someone.I think theres to many examples out there that should show just this point to anyone without an unbiased opinion,at least to me.You can't count on safeguards that dont seem to work the way they should to even be considered a safeguard.I have even seen what I heard were pretty damn stock cars blowing so how come the fuel cut didn't save them?
I come from a truck driving background and I can't stress the benefits enough of monitoring the inner workings of your motor at all times.In my trucks I have gauges for everything and being able to constantly monitor them has saved me a motor or two along the way.
Some have laughed at the number of gauges in my car as I have 6(Boost,WB A/F,EGT,Oil pressure,Oil Temp and water temp plus my DH)I also have an led for my SB so I know what map its on a light in my wot box letting me know its working,Plus now that I'm installing my meth system there will be an led to let me know the flow is good and another to let me new the tank level is good.And call it my space cpasule,but I prefer to call it good sense in my opinion.In my opinion if your gonna mod your car to a fully bolted level than you better keep an eye on everything you can so that you can be your own best safeguard.Nothing can help you from blowing the motor more than a watcful eye and paying attention to how the car is acting,when its doesnt seem right lift your foot or shut it down.

[kingpin748]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar The point is that fuel cut is a useless nuisance for these cars.

I agree with that and the OP. I just don't get why it was pointed out by MZRDISI.

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar Your posts my be relevant if we were talking about a properly engineered or even predictable fuel cut scenario. Because these cars don't have that, the fuel cut is useless and should be removed. Give it up dude. You're just pissing everyone off.

Then modify the fuel cut so it IS properly engineered and predictible.

[SneakyP86]

Jumping Jackson what I want to know is when Cobb gets around to making their street tuner available to the AP users are you going to suggest that they also have people sign a waiver to make sure they know that the Fuel cut feature has been moved to a more manageable range to work with?Better yet are they having you sign one now when they sent out the beta maps that everyone and i do mean EVERYONE was hving problems with to beging with?(and that has been documented in numerous threads)I don't remember seeing you raise this matter than and somehow I dont think we'll see you do it when the street tuner comes out either

[MZRDISI4]

Originally Posted by kingpin748 I agree with that and the OP. I just don't get why it was pointed out by MZRDISI.

Fuel cut was supposed to save a bent rod or whatever other mechanical issue it was with the car?

[SneakyP86]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Then modify the fuel cut so it IS properly engineered and predictible.

Is that what Cobb did or did they just move it? did you ask them why they didn't make it properly engineered and predictable?When you can show me that you are raising the same questions with them than I will buy your argument that your not a COBB fanboi but not till than.Why is it CPE's responsibility to make something work for you when evidently cobb isn't doing it,shouldn't you be asking them since you use the AP?

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by SneakyP86 Jumping Jackson what I want to know is when Cobb gets around to making their street tuner available to the AP users are you going to suggest that they also have people sign a waiver to make sure they know that the Fuel cut feature has been moved to a more manageable range to work with?Better yet are they having you sign one now when they sent out the beta maps that everyone and i do mean EVERYONE was hving problems with to beging with?(and that has been documented in numerous threads)I don't remember seeing you raise this matter than and somehow I dont think we'll see you do it when the street tuner comes out either

Once again i wasnt suggesting that CP-E should do this, i was saying that I would do this, but im not selling tuning products. of course im a paranoid bastard too.

If cobb was going to completely remove the fuel cut i would say the same thing.

I already stated i probably shouldnt have said the waiver bit, get over it.

And from my personal experience so far with Christian and Cobb i have had *zero* issues so far. The only thing right now that is holding me back is a fuel pump which i dont have money for right now. Until i do get one my tuning is on hold.

[oskinosmee]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 Fuel cut was supposed to save a bent rod or whatever other mechanical issue it was with the car?

WTF? HTF?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Then modify the fuel cut so it IS properly engineered and predictible.

give me an example in another car where this has been done successfully.

[SneakyP86]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Once again this isnt about CPE vs Cobb . I havent spoken to christian for over a month since we stopped tuning due to fueling issues till i get a fuel pump The only time my car has fuel cut since i started tuning with the AP was when my boost line popped off of my turbo. And yes Christian modified my fuel cut so that i could run higher than stock boost levels without encoutering it. He did not remove it outright.

Once again this exactly a Cobb vs CPE thing.Show me anywhere in the cobb forums where you are raising these same issues SHOW ME.Until you can do that than your doing exactly what you say your not doing and personally I don't like and think that your just coming over here to sling some mud.I dont come over to the Cobb threads and post at all.Why? because its not what I use and I don't feel I have the right to come over there and start any shit (maybe I should start).I suggest that you go back and get in touch with Christian than.

[atomicms3]

You know, I just sighed really loudly because of all the twisted panties on this forum right now... my wife heard me, and asked what was wrong. I explained what was going on here, and her reply after a moment of careful thought was:

"So this fuel cut is like your appendix... leave it in and it can only cause problems, but there's no reason to take it out unless you're having problems."

I think she deserves some credit for summarizing how even God can give us all a useless "feature", not just Mazda. At least you don't need anesthesia to flash your ECU.

[SneakyP86]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Once again i wasnt suggesting that CP-E should do this, i was saying that I would do this, but im not selling tuning products. of course im a paranoid bastard too. If cobb was going to completely remove the fuel cut i would say the same thing. I already stated i probably shouldnt have said the waiver bit, get over it. And from my personal experience so far with Christian and Cobb i have had *zero* issues so far. The only thing right now that is holding me back is a fuel pump which i dont have money for right now. Until i do get one my tuning is on hold.

You say that maybe you shouldn't have said it but the thing is you DID.But what you didn't do is go back and either delete that post or edit it did you?So evidently you really dont think it was enflamatory at all and stand by your statement.So go back tpo your cobb forum and I'll stay in my CPE forum.It shouldn't matter if Cobb moves it or removes it what matters is that they altered it so that it doesn't work the way it was intended that was what your original argument was isn't it?If you really wanted to have a constructive discussion thats great but until you start talking about Cobb moving it as well as CPE totally removes it that I for one wont see it that way.I made a statement about the numerous threads about the NUMEROUS problems with the AP beta maps and wondering if they had a waiver that you had to sign and all you did was gloss that over by stating from your own personal experience.So I am asking why if your so happy with the Cobb Ap and the way they are dealing with the fuel Cut issue,why are you here at all?

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by palerider give me an example in another car where this has been done successfully.

SRT4's

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson SRT4's

srt4's are also tuned by gameboys....just to show you how complex those ecus are

[SneakyP86]

Your wrong there JJ when you talked about getting people to sign a waiver regardless of what you think that was a direct attack on CPE and their product.I took it that way and If you can't see how saying something like that isn't a direct attack than I guess you never will.I wouldn't do such a thing in a COBB forum out of respect for the people using it since I dont use it myself.If I had a question like that I would have PM'D cobb directly to make sure it wasnt considered that way in any way shape or form.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson SRT4's

lol....really?
where did they dial the "safe" load calc back too? and with what software?

please enlighten us.

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by Laloosh srt4's are also tuned by gameboys....just to show you how complex those ecus are

So are Mazdaspeed 3's and 6's its called a D-Tec. He asked for an example, i gave him one.

[Laloosh]

thats a shitty example cause the ecu's are nothing alike
proof of some1 tuning with a gameboy on a speed?

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by palerider lol....really? where did they dial the "safe" load calc back too? and with what software? please enlighten us.

You said fuel cut. SRT4's dont have load calcs.
On SRT4's the boostl cut was MODIFIED so that it was still a useful safety precaution on a modified car with higher than stock boost.

You combing 2 different things and thinking of them as one. When they arent

[dadasracecar]

Jackson, Sneaky is pointing out your hypocrisy. You blindly slap an AP flash on your car trusting Christian without actually knowing what he is doing to your car. You then come over to a cp-e section and start shit about how cp-e will be liable for removing a protective feature.
Here the holes in your argument:
1. the fuel cut is not beneficial in these cars and removing it likely increases the longevity of the motor
2. you can't speak educatedly about what was done to your car. You have no idea what was done with respect to the fuel cut. What if it was removed? How would you know?
3. you never question the responsibility of COBB in releasing flashes that are potentially damaging to cars.
4. you keep asking for a dialogue about the fuel cut yet refuse to answer these points in any post.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson You said fuel cut. SRT4's dont have load calcs. On SRT4's the boostl cut was MODIFIED so that it was still a useful safety precaution on a modified car with higher than stock boost. You combing 2 different things and thinking of them as one. When they arent

i know what im saying... you keep trying to knock this flash because of your gay boost cut if the hose blows off argument. and other than that there isnt any controversy in rmeoving these cuts because outside of this community its UNHEARD of.

i was mocking you about load calcs on srts...lol of course they dont, nor hondas, dsms, anything else.

youre alone on an island here with a few cobb castaways. quit attacking cpe and get up a game of beach volleyball.

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar Jackson, Sneaky is pointing out your hypocrisy. You blindly slap an AP flash on your car trusting Christian without actually knowing what he is doing to your car. You then come over to a cp-e section and start shit about how cp-e will be liable for removing a protective feature. Here the holes in your argument: 1. the fuel cut is not beneficial in these cars and removing it likely increases the longevity of the motor 2. you can't speak educatedly about what was done to your car. You have no idea what was done with respect to the fuel cut. What if it was removed? How would you know? 3. you never question the responsibility of COBB in releasing flashes that are potentially damaging to cars. 4. you keep asking for a dialogue about the fuel cut yet refuse to answer these points in any post.

1. Beneficial for what? Making Power? No its not beneficial the way it comes from the factory. Then again lots of things aren't designed to make the most power coming from the factory. Do you have any proof or data that supports your theory that removing it increases the longevity of the motor?

2. educatedly isn't a word. I know for a fact it wasn't removed, it was modified. Ask Bova about how christian has modified the fuel cut and how he has yet to cut in the cold weather since he did this.
Because the topic isnt about Cobb its about MAP clamps and removing fuel cuts. Cobb does neither of these.

3. Because its obvious in each of the MAPs documentation on Cobb's website it goes over the dangers of using it especially on cars with hardware that dont match.

4. Most of your questions arent about fuel cut or map clamps they are about Cobb. Cobb doesnt use Map clamps or remove the fuel cut in their products.

[bova]

here is what i say....FUCK the stupid fuel cut...i dont give a shit if its completely removed by cp-e or if its raised to a point where it doesn't occur by cobb. as long as i or no one else has to deal with it. i personally feel it isn't saving me from shit and is actually putting more strain on everything with its abrupt jolts. i think the shock alone from it is enough to cause damage.

edit: the only place i can see where it should occur is when you need a new fuel pump and your pressure drops so low that it is saving you, but usually your throttle plate does that so you don't run dangerously lean.

[SneakyP86]

You know JJ the thing hers is this.You blindly accept whatever AP map that Cobb sends you and if that means moving the fuel cut than fine.what I would like to know is how high did he move it do you even know?Maybe he moved it so high that it will not be able to help you in any way,I would think that would be more dangerous than completely removing it and letting people know they can do it for you if you want it.Or is he doing it in a general way so that it should work for most but he does move the fuel cut is what you say without giving you a choice or not but you accept it because Christian knows best.WIth CPE you have the ability to get the FCF or not you have the ability to get the MAF flash of not you also have the ability to get the FUEL CUT FLASH or not the choice is yours.Like the idea or not but at least with CPE you get the choice it isnt hoisted on you.

[08.5TRS3]

lol this whole pissin match is pointless .. if you have no idea what your doing or what is going on with your car which i pretty much have you out to be then dont fuckin buy the flash its simple, enjoy hitting cut because the temps dropped a few degrees or because you swapped your intake or anyother random ass time the ecu feels like rainin frustration on your good time. its simple cpe has a great solution for the guys that wanna make good power and enjoy the car because stock or full bolt on its no damn fun going to get on it whether you just have an urge to or need to merge into traffic then bam random ass cut. and yes some people are idiots and yes they will blow there motors but look at how many people already blew there shit, i mean c'mon now if you think this flash is goin to cause an epic on blown motors your a jackass lol

[bova]

Originally Posted by SneakyP86 You know JJ the thing hers is this.You blindly accept whatever AP map that Cobb sends you and if that means moving the fuel cut than fine.what I would like to know is how high did he move it do you even know?Maybe he moved it so high that it will not be able to help you in any way,I would think that would be what he did since he is making so many maps for people than furthermore tweaking them as people send him logs.Do you really think he has the TIME to adjust each and every tune for each and everybody?Or is he doing it in a general way so that it should work for most but he does move the fuel cut is what you say without giving you a choice or not but you accept it because Christian knows best.WIth CPE you have the ability to get the FCF or not you have the ability to get the MAF flash of not you also have the ability to get the FUEL CUT FLASH or not the choice is yours.Like the idea or not but at least with CPE you get the choice it isnt hoisted on you.

christian's interaction with JJ may not be all that and a bag of chips in a way that maybe he is accepting maps blindly. but i will tell you that i do not accept them blindly and christian usually explains to me what he changes in each and every map. with the cut values he has told me he has raised them, i dont know how much exactly but i dont care because in reality i don't think they will save me so it doesn't matter to me, i'm on everyone elses side in that nature. i have enough sense to know if something is wrong to take my foot off the throttle which will save you more than some abrupt fuel cut.

[www.cp-e.com]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson My opinion is based solely of my personaly experience and from what i have read. I would *love* to have a constructive debate about why im wrong without it devolving into personal attacks and thread shitting. That is why i made that first post in your FCF new feature thread because i wanted to learn more and also why i made the dangers of map clamps thread.

You're making this sound as if you're on a fact-finding mission, but the thread title "The dangers of MAP clamps/Boost cut disabling" does not imply that. You started the thread but asked no questions of your own. So exactly what are you trying to learn? What questions do you have that we can discuss? I really would like to start a dialogue about this.

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson The only reason it was ever mentioned was because the Standback does infact an adjustable MAP clamp that is preset to be enabled from the factory. I think it would be silly to specifically not mention a product that has does have a MAP Clamp feature when i am talking specifically about MAP clamps. Notice how I also mentioned ATP's map clamp and map clamps in general. I was not specifically targeting the Standback or the FCF in my post.

You can't compare our MAP clamp to the ATP clamp because they're different in the way they work. As I said, the MAP is clamped on the SB until an overboost condition is present, in which case it passes through the signal. The Standback's MAP clamp does not defeat the ECU's ability to fuel cut in an overboost situation. As far as I'm aware mechanical MAP clamps can't do that. I'm just correcting the misinformation about our product.

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com So yes, we could raise the maximum boost pressure limits, or lower the minimum fuel pressure trigger, (although I'd argue that's just as dangerous as removing the fuel cut all together), but that's /a lot/ of work. There are many many different triggers based on all kinds of different conditions, many of which are useless, like the cold weather cut.

There are many, many triggers, and frankly they're not worth the effort in finding every trigger and modifying them. More than that, we'd need to come up with a way for people to adjust them. Even more than that, how are we supposed to know which fuel cut trigger is at fault, or if the fuel cut trigger is necessary. "Did I just cut because it's cold out, or because my fuel pressure is dropping?" It just becomes a messy situation once you start digging into it.

As I've said before, the fuel cut is a poor safety mechanism. I'm hoping that I can elaborate on this in the future, but let me just say that we'd much rather spend energy making the cars go faster than trying to improve a flawed safety system we got from the factory. Yes, we could do what you're asking, but I'm trying my best to illustrate to you why that would be a poor use of our time and energy. If you're educated enough about cars to know what knock sounds like, or what an overboost situation is, then I'd argue that the fuel cut isn't going to be worth a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

I hope that answers your questions, but if not PM me or post the question up here. I'll be happy to discuss any questions or concerns that you have.

[08.5TRS3]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com I hope that answers your questions, but if not PM me or post the question up here.

When can I stop by and get my ecu flashed lol

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com You're making this sound as if you're on a fact-finding mission, but the thread title "The dangers of MAP clamps/Boost cut disabling" does not imply that. You started the thread but asked no questions of your own. So exactly what are you trying to learn? What questions do you have that we can discuss? I really would like to start a dialogue about this.

Im sorry i was too busy being blasted with personal attacks and was and still am in a foul mood.

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com You can't compare our MAP clamp to the ATP clamp because they're different in the way they work. As I said, the MAP is clamped on the SB until an overboost condition is present, in which case it passes through the signal. The Standback's MAP clamp does not defeat the ECU's ability to fuel cut in an overboost situation. As far as I'm aware mechanical MAP clamps can't do that. I'm just correcting the misinformation about our product.

I was not aware that the Standback had that feature.

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com There are many, many triggers, and frankly they're not worth the effort in finding every trigger and modifying them. More than that, we'd need to come up with a way for people to adjust them. Even more than that, how are we supposed to know which fuel cut trigger is at fault, or if the fuel cut trigger is necessary. "Did I just cut because it's cold out, or because my fuel pressure is dropping?" It just becomes a messy situation once you start digging into it.

I agree with you the stock fuel cut is mostly useless.
Why not scrap the entire fuel cut algorithm as it stands and create a simple one from scratch as safety precaution? Im not saying its the end-all and be all failsafe system, im saying it would be a good idea to implement SOME sort of sane safety measure in the event of an overboost situation.

If Boost pressure goes over X then take Y measures to *HELP* avert engine damage/failure
(Possibly pull timing, close thottle plate, pull fuel, im not sure what the best course to take would be)
If Fuel pressure goes under X while under load take Y measures to *HELP* avert engine damage/failure

Whatever else you want to put into it.

That sounds pretty simple and fairly easy to implement to me, but im not an electrical engineer.

In your opinion what IS the best way to mitigate an overboost situation if you were going to create your own measures to take?

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com As I've said before, the fuel cut is a poor safety mechanism. I'm hoping that I can elaborate on this in the future, but let me just say that we'd much rather spend energy making the cars go faster than trying to improve a flawed safety system we got from the factory. Yes, we could do what you're asking, but I'm trying my best to illustrate to you why that would be a poor use of our time and energy. If you're educated enough about cars to know what knock sounds like, or what an overboost situation is, then I'd argue that the fuel cut isn't going to be worth a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. I hope that answers your questions, but if not PM me or post the question up here. I'll be happy to discuss any questions or concerns that you have.

Im not suggest you improve it, im suggesting you scrap it all together and make a simple one to suit your needs.

[SneakyP86]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson You have no idea what my relationship is with Christian or whats goes on when we are creating maps *specifically* for my car. I dont know the specifics of how he modified it, but i trust Christians judgement in that regard. We do discuss what is happening with the tune and I give him my feedback and we make progress. He specifically stated he *modified* the fuel cut and not removed it. To me that sounds better then removing it outright? Atleast there is a chance it might work? Of course if i see im overboosting im going to pull my foot off of the gas pedal im not just going to leave it pegged and hope my fuel cut saves me. Its a precaution, a measure. Its not the end-all and be all of saving motors.

JJ I'm not attacking you I'm attacking your argument.You just said it yourself you dont know what he set the fuelcut at but you trust his judgement.So how do you know that your fuel cut isn't set so high that its not all but useless,since you don't know what its set at you can't know if its useful or not.Sounds like fools gold to me "I dont know how he set it but I pray that it will protect me".How is that actually better than what you had with the stock ECU? True it doesn't cut when it did but you dont have a clue when it will.I would also argue that the "FUEL CUT" itself is what should be avoided.Do you have any clue at all about what kind of shock it puts on the motor when pout of thin air BAM there it is?If you wish to put your trust in Christian than that is your choice to make.Your right and I dont know about your relationship with Christian,I can only go by my own dealings with him and to be honest I'm not overly impressed.I tried getting through to the man on numersous occasions and left messages and numbers and never once heard back from him.If you have such a great relationship with Christian than why arent you asking him the question you asked above?

But I myself would much rather no that as I'm raping through the gears that it CAN'T fuel cut.I take responsibility for monitoring my internals and whats going on inside and wouldn't want it any other way.With CPE's Fuel Cut Flash I dont have to guess what its set at I know its GONE PERIOD.No wondering what its set at and no need to worry about someone teliing me they alteredt it is just a plaebo effect that if something happens I sit there saying WTF.I know that everytime I have called CPE if Jordan was there I was able to speak with him indepth and about whatever was on my mind concerning the car.That in my mind makes me want to do business with them.

But I'm done and out your not really responding to my argument in any way and I dont believe you will.So continuing this with you is pointless.