MAPerformance Ported Intake Manifold

[subparpunk03]

So the good folks over at MAPerformance did the porting and polishing (and coating) on an intake manifold I happened to have lying around.

If you haven't seen Jumpin Jackson's engine build thread (they did the porting on his too) with the flow results, you can see it here: My Forged Motor Build - Mazda6 / Atenza

Well, here's some pictures of something that is quite simply a work of art.

vvv The logo is welded on. Hides the cut/re-welded marks VERY nicely.


vvv Closeup of the porting done in the main chamber, taken through the throttle body


vvv Ports with thermal coating where it bolts to the head


vvv Closeup on the ports from passengers side to drivers side





vvv I'm going to be sending this spare head over to them... the IM is too pretty and they're gonna have to match...


And finally, a little bit about the guy that did the work (from their website)

"Our porting guru Bob Schreiber has worked on everything from NA applications to boosted nitrous applications, and from single cylinder recreational vehicles all the way to high performance super cars like the Dodge Viper SRT-10, and everything in between. Pulling from his education in fluid dynamics, airflow theory, physics, thermal dynamics, and his real world testing, he is able to bring us nothing less than the best porting and polishing solutions. Over the years he has developed custom tooling (unlike the competition) that allows him to port 'line of sight' and be able to get everything in a manifold even if it is a Viper intake plenum that is ~26" long!"

I'm very impressed. Socks is comin over to help me put this bad boy on, and after he sees it in person I'll have him post up his impressions too, even if it costs me a 6 pack of natty light.

Dynos soon.

[ljudgeii]

nice, any core swap/pricing for this work of art?

[Fagwagon]

im guessing this is going to be a group buy??

[martyxattack]

i wish i had half an engine just layin around to get p an p'ed. cant wait to see the head friend. do you have a before shot of the intake manifold from the tb?

[Dash08]

Originally Posted by martyxattack i wish i had half an engine just layin around to get p an p'ed. cant wait to see the head friend. do you have a before shot of the intake manifold from the tb?

+1 for before and after pics.

Congrats man. That looks great!

[subparpunk03]

I'll take pictures of the stock one when I yank it off.

I'll let MAP post up about pricing.

Aaaaaaaand here's a zoomed out shot showcasing a bunch of the random parts I've got lying around:



Engine block, crank and clutch not shown

I has no garage so I use my kitchen.

[JumpingJackson]

BTW that black coating on the outside is thermal dispersant coating, it helps the intake manifold radiate heat better than just bare metal.

[subparpunk03]

Big thanks to Socks and Mizboo for helping me get this bad boy installed. I'm headed downstairs to take pictures of the stock manifold for y'all now.

One strange thing I've noticed that I can't seem to explain is that my EGTs seem to be about 200* lower across the board. I have NO clue why that could be, but I am ecstatic.

The heat shed coating is doing its thing. I have GOT to get my IC and radiator coated with that stuff. Its pure magic.

[rodrigo]

mad scientist indeed kurt. looking good, how much of this will u haz on the car for the next zmax day??? or u expect hitler to pwn u again lol?


do they provide flow bench data on the mani?

[MS6_Auburn_Fan]

I was under the impression that MAP was cutting the manifold in half and then doing the PNP followed by welding it back together. Was this a line of sight PNP or did they cut the manifold in half?

[E4Performance]

did they get rid of the vcts? How did you eliminate the CEL?

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by Lenny127 mad scientist indeed kurt. looking good, how much of this will u haz on the car for the next zmax day??? or u expect hitler to pwn u again lol? do they provide flow bench data on the mani?

I always expect Hitler to pwn me... but that doesn't mean there isn't a slim chance I'll be able to do 13 backflips and totally avoid his pwnage and then cut a ridiculous time at the track. We shall see what happens.

I am not sure about the flow bench data... I will send Bob an E-Mail.

Originally Posted by MS6_Auburn_Fan I was under the impression that MAP was cutting the manifold in half and then doing the PNP followed by welding it back together. Was this a line of sight PNP or did they cut the manifold in half?

They cut the manifold in half. If you look closely at the first and third picture in my original post you can see where it was cut and then re-welded.

Originally Posted by E4Performance did they get rid of the vcts? How did you eliminate the CEL?

Actually at first I took the manifold to another shop who did the VTCS delete... They did an OK job, cleaned some stuff up on it, but it wasn't anything special. And it was outrageously expensive.

I'm not sure what MAP is planning on doing with the VTCS. They may be able to leave it in, or remove it for you, they'll have to answer that b/c the manifold I sent them already had the VTCS work done.

I haven't got around to figuring out the VTCS CEL issue yet... so right now I'm rocking a CEL.

[maperformance]

Originally Posted by ljudgeii nice, any core swap/pricing for this work of art?

Unfortunately we don't have any cores to offer at this time so we would have to perform the work on your manifold With that said, if you know anyone that has any stock manifolds for sale have them contact us!

Originally Posted by E4Performance did they get rid of the vcts? How did you eliminate the CEL?

Normally we would eliminate the VCTS for you In regards to the CEL we were able to eliminate it on our initial test car by leaving the sensor installed and fabricating a bracket to keep the sensor closed at all times.

[06Speed6]

There is a work around for the VCTS delete CEL, ask sumark about it. Maybe he can make a kit to sell.

[Bob @ MA Performance]

Thanks for posting up Kurt!

I know you already said the butt dyno noticed a nice difference, but be sure to post up what results you get once you get it back on the rollers!

To answer some of your questions, yes, this definately is a cut and welded manifold. The plate, and the coating do hide mose of the welds, but if you look you can still see them.

On our first test, we had a stock turbo car, with stock ECU controlling things. That test showed the same power at the wheels but at ~3psi less boost (showing a more efficient manifold). I would expect more dramatic effects on a big turbo setup like Kurt's.

For those wondering about flow results, they can be found on our website (MAPerformance Rev3 Intake Manifold (Mazdaspeed3)—-—Intercoolers and Intake—-—Mazdaspeed—-—Modern Automotive Performance) but for the overview, we managed to get this manifold from a 25% runner imbalance, down to a 5% inbalance, and we were able to boost overall airflow capability by over a 100 CFM! It's this fact that shows how much more free flowing the manifold truely is!

Keep up the good work Kurt! Thanks again for the support!

-Bob

[socks]

what is the cost on this? i have a mani i can send you (kurts stock one)

[subparpunk03]

Its going on the rollers on saturday, same place I've done almost all of my dynos. I will do a couple pulls, I'll do a pull with no tuning changes, one with just a recalibrated MAF, one with more boost (~20 psi), and one with rod-shattering boost (~24 psi).

Bob, the flow results you linked to show a decrease in the flow of runner #3... is this because the other runners are flowing better? Or did the records on the bottom just get flip flopped around?

[SPD6Tuner]

That looks awsome, cant wait to see how it performs.

[punchjamesarnold]

Originally Posted by SPD6Tuner That looks awsome, cant wait to see how it performs.

Besides bolt on parts, I dont see too much on internal modifications, port and polishing, cams, dual spring valves, high compression pistons, all that good stuff! Definately keep us posted with the numbers it makes.

[E4Performance]

can the bracket be purchased that keeps it closed all the time? I purchased an already ported and polished manifold from ebay a few months ago.

[maperformance]

Originally Posted by E4Performance can the bracket be purchased that keeps it closed all the time? I purchased an already ported and polished manifold from ebay a few months ago.

Unfortunately at this time we are not able to sell just the bracket but it should be available soon I will let you know asap what we can work out.

Pm sent to Socks

[JohnnyT]

Do you accept kidneys as barter for this mani? I've got a spare...

I <3 MAP. I'll be there soon for some new dyno #'s.

[MS6 Alan]

I have a spare as well, last time I inquired I was blown off. We'll see.

[Fagwagon]

So is MAP doing the vcts delete as well??

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by Fagwagon So is MAP doing the vcts delete as well??

Yes.

[Fagwagon]

right on...about how much is it for porting+vcts delete

[samsel450r]

sub

[rodrigo]

lets pretend I tried to pass smog , how would the vcts delete affect this?? would it?

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by Fagwagon right on...about how much is it for porting+vcts delete

MAPerformance Rev3 Intake Manifold (Mazdaspeed3) - Modern Automotive Performance (Page 2)

Originally Posted by Lenny127 lets pretend I tried to pass smog , how would the vcts delete affect this?? would it?

if you can defeat the CEL then its not an issue. VTCS isn't an emissions thing like the EGR or PCV... its done for performance and none of the shops will explicitly check for it, but you won't pass any emissions test with a check engine light.

[SneakyP86]

Lenny as long as you can get the CEL canceled out it shouldn't be a problem for you. At least here in Ga. it isn't since all they do is to plug into the OBDII port, they dont even raise the hood except to look to see if they can see the cat.

[rodrigo]

no no , I am aware what the vcts is for, no different than variable length runners on higher end manifolds..... but having technically more air at lower rpms would it not cause higher fuel consumptions throwing the smog test off?

I never really ever pay attention when they smog a car but I was under the impression that they run it through different rpm ranges and test emissions at different points....

just curious.... havent fully figured out what I will do in 2 years time when I need to smog my car.




edit: LOL!!! at your sig pete hahahahha

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by Lenny127 no no , I am aware what the vcts is for, no different than variable length runners on higher end manifolds..... but having technically more air at lower rpms would it not cause higher fuel consumptions throwing the smog test off? I never really ever pay attention when they smog a car but I was under the impression that they run it through different rpm ranges and test emissions at different points.... just curious.... havent fully figured out what I will do in 2 years time when I need to smog my car. edit: LOL!!! at your sig pete hahahahha

OH right in california they hook some sort of goofy sniffer up to your tailpipe eh? Here in NC they just look to see if you've messed wit hthe catalytic converter, the EGR or the PCV and then do the obd thing.

If I went to some places with a catch can I'd fail b/c that is messing with the PCV... its bullcrap. I failed an emissions test not too long ago b/c I had one cat instead of two.. so I had to go find someone that would play ball.

But, back on topic, I don't think you'd have any problems passing the smog test with this. The difference in the n20 emissions would hardly be noticeable.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by Lenny127 no no , I am aware what the vcts is for, no different than variable length runners on higher end manifolds..... but having technically more air at lower rpms would it not cause higher fuel consumptions throwing the smog test off?

I am not really sure about this car, but when I was working on Mustangs it was very common knowledge that the VCTS delete hurt bottom end power because of the decrease in flow velocities. The top end gain was also hardly worth mentioning.

This car could be different, but I have never seen a VCTS delete before and after dyno.

[jmhinkle]

Few things to add:

1) There is a write-up on a simple wiring trick using a relay to defeat the CEL for VTCS removal done by SSinstaller ages ago. I can post the link later when I get home if anyone wants it. Several people have been running it for years. Please don't drive around with all the extra actuators tied off and hanging around under your hood.

2) Removing VTCS does not affect emissions. Removing EGR is another story because of the CEL that can't be defeated yet.

And a few questions:

1) What was used to plug the VTCS runner holes?

2) Why does it look like it is coming out in one of the pics?

[subparpunk03]

Originally Posted by jmhinkle 1) What was used to plug the VTCS runner holes? 2) Why does it look like it is coming out in one of the pics?

The first shop that got their hands on the IM (as mentioned earlier) did the vtcs delete. I have NO idea what they used to plug the holes in between the runners, but I know what you're talking about it looking like its coming out because on one side its sticking out a little bit and on the other its pushed in a little... no clue why that is but before I installed it I double checked that those things were secured and not coming out. I could not get them to budge so I said "Giddyup." and went ahead and installed it.

[jmhinkle]

Somethin' ain't right, man. If it moved that much it will move again. It might have been an issue when it heated up or something. Personally I'd at least grind down the side that is sticking out and check it occasionally to see if it is moving.

[subparpunk03]

I took a screwdriver and a hammer and tried to chisel 'em out. They aren't moving. Trust me.

I will pull the IM off again in the next 10k miles or so to deep-creep the valves again.

[802MS3]

Originally Posted by subparpunk03 I will pull the IM off again in the next 10k miles or so to deep-creep the valves again.

hmm elaborate for a noob. is deep creep like seafoam?

[RC08MS3]

shit keeps getting better n better for the platform, cant wait to see what your numbers look like, keep us posted

[subparpunk03]

I will say that the car does not feel at all laggy on the bottom end... in fact it feels great, but we will see for sure how it reacts this weekend. I doubt the VTCS delete was responsible for the gains, however you have to remove the VTCS if you want to get rid of the "nub" in runner #1 (going from passengers side to drivers side, forget if thats the convention or not)

Honestly the effects of the VTCS flappers are probably negligible, maybe a small hit down low, but the overall improvement to the flow characteristics of the IM might offset the effects of the flapper delete. Until I put it on the rollers this is all speculation, so we will see what it does on saturday!