GB: GROUND CONTROL + KONI SPORT Coilovers for Mazdaspeed 3!

[Chimmike]

Originally Posted by phate The why not is because you are probably going to reach the point where the dampers can no longer control the movement. If you think the dampers have more left, try it. If you run too much spring, you will end up losing grip. Adding more roll resistance via ARB's might be a better option.

I think the 600r and whatever front and I think those overpower the Koni's. especially over undulating concrete. bouncy bouncy.

I'd say the 7" spring would be best for keeping stock height or lowering just a little bit.

I need lower spring rates and maybe the taller springs too.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Chimmike I think the 600r and whatever front and I think those overpower the Koni's. especially over undulating concrete. bouncy bouncy.

Is it bouncy or is the whole chassis following the undulations?



Assuming the dampers could handle it, a 600lb/in spring for the rear is right in the range I would want it for a full blown racing setup looking at sprung mass frequency. Any additional roll resistance beyond what the springs supply is where I would look to ARB's. @Helrich;, what spring rates did you end up with?

[Helrich]

Just checked, rears are 0600.250.0600 which looks to be 600lb/in. Fronts are GC150.64.92 which appear to be 525lb/in according to google. Really the rears seem pretty great, but in corners the front dug in to the point where I got scuffs all the way up the sidewalls of the tires. I do have a rear sway bar here waiting to be installed, waiting on the cones to do everything at once as well as crank the damping stiffness up. Once that's done I'll take the car out and see what's what.

[461_SS]

Originally Posted by Helrich Just checked, rears are 0600.250.0600 which looks to be 600lb/in. Fronts are GC150.64.92 which appear to be 525lb/in according to google. Really the rears seem pretty great, but in corners the front dug in to the point where I got scuffs all the way up the sidewalls of the tires. I do have a rear sway bar here waiting to be installed, waiting on the cones to do everything at once as well as crank the damping stiffness up. Once that's done I'll take the car out and see what's what.

Scuff on the sidewall does not mean you need stiffer front springs. Like mentioned before at one point the front will be too stiff and you will lose overall grip. What you are seeing is a lack of camber in the front end with a combination of probably having too soft of a tire pressure. IMO these cars could use some more caster as well, but that isn't something we can change unless you have k-mac camber/caster plates.

Are you autocrossing the car?

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by 461_SS Scuff on the sidewall does not mean you need stiffer front springs. Like mentioned before at one point the front will be too stiff and you will lose overall grip. What you are seeing is a lack of camber in the front end with a combination of probably having too soft of a tire pressure. IMO these cars could use some more caster as well, but that isn't something we can change unless you have k-mac camber/caster plates. Are you autocrossing the car?

Caster bushings (or the Whiteline Anti-lift Kit - for Gen1s only) will also give you more caster, but at the expense of putting the car into some shitty SCCA Solo classes.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Helrich Just checked, rears are 0600.250.0600 which looks to be 600lb/in. Fronts are GC150.64.92 which appear to be 525lb/in according to google. Really the rears seem pretty great, but in corners the front dug in to the point where I got scuffs all the way up the sidewalls of the tires. I do have a rear sway bar here waiting to be installed, waiting on the cones to do everything at once as well as crank the damping stiffness up. Once that's done I'll take the car out and see what's what.

That spring split, and most others I've seen for this GC group buy, have really been on the money in terms of frequency split and in the "advertised range" for each of the "levels" of stiffness. If it were me, I wouldn't change them unless you find the dampers can't handle it (sounds like you think they're ok, though).

What sort of "scuffing" do you mean? Have any pictures? I agree it could be tire pressure/setup/driving related. If it's rubbing on the fender and you can't roll it any further, I'd opt to either raise the car (it'll be in a better range for camber gain), or control the roll with stiffer sway bar(s).

[461_SS]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1 Caster bushings (or the Whiteline Anti-lift Kit - for Gen1s only) will also give you more caster, but at the expense of putting the car into some shitty SCCA Solo classes.

Ahh yes I remember you mentioning that before! For some reason I keep forgetting about them. Must be because they put you into that shitty SCCA Solo class! haha

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by 461_SS Ahh yes I remember you mentioning that before! For some reason I keep forgetting about them. Must be because they put you into that shitty SCCA Solo class! haha

Yeah, I ended up with 4.4° of caster in the front with the WALK. Lucky for me, I really couldn't care less what class the car falls into. As often as I dodge cones these days (not at all, really), I couldn't say I'm in it to "win."

[Dimenus]

Originally Posted by Freeblurd After a bit of experimenting with my kit, I ended up with 450 front and rear- and I'm finally happy. At my ride height (slightly lower than stock), my rear height adjusters are maxed out- so I may consider longer springs in the future to get a little more height. I also cut the stock rear bump stops, which helped smooth things out a bit. The larger issue was some crazy coil bind (block) that I was getting in the front. The springs are too damn short for the amount of travel available if you have them raised up. Photo shows that they were contacting each other, which resulted in a terrible bang when I hit a big bump. I replaced the springs in the kit with 7" springs, which fixed the problem. A lot of trial and error for me on this one... I'm at full stiff all around on the Konis, for what it's worth. In my opinion, their rates are a bit high, and the springs need to be longer for folks wanting near-stock ride heights.

Which springs did you end up ordering?

Originally Posted by phate That spring split, and most others I've seen for this GC group buy, have really been on the money in terms of frequency split and in the "advertised range" for each of the "levels" of stiffness. If it were me, I wouldn't change them unless you find the dampers can't handle it (sounds like you think they're ok, though).

I'm not sure if this is related, but I literally can't find the right speed to go over speedbumps. If I go over too slowly the rear bounces, If I go over too quickly it the rear just upsets everyone in the car. I don't get the same behavior with the fronts. Does that just mean I should still be going stiffer on the back shocks?

[phate]

Originally Posted by Dimenus I'm not sure if this is related, but I literally can't find the right speed to go over speedbumps. If I go over too slowly the rear bounces, If I go over too quickly it the rear just upsets everyone in the car. I don't get the same behavior with the fronts. Does that just mean I should still be going stiffer on the back shocks?

When you guys say "bounce", do you mean a continued oscillation after the road has stopped changing, or do you mean both the suspension and chassis are following the contour of the road?

[[R]usty]

Originally Posted by phate When you guys say "bounce", do you mean a continued oscillation after the road has stopped changing, or do you mean both the suspension and chassis are following the contour of the road?

I think they mean this

Bouncing Car! - YouTube

Bouncing Car! - YouTube

[Chimmike]

Originally Posted by phate When you guys say "bounce", do you mean a continued oscillation after the road has stopped changing, or do you mean both the suspension and chassis are following the contour of the road?

I would say it's exacerbating the road, or magnifying it. Over normal asphalt it's fine, but over concrete, especially undulations on concrete bridges, it's fucking ridiculous. I don't think the konis can handle these springs.

I have the same setup mentioned 600r and 525fr IMO.

[Dimenus]

Originally Posted by phate When you guys say "bounce", do you mean a continued oscillation after the road has stopped changing, or do you mean both the suspension and chassis are following the contour of the road?

When going slow (< 5 mph) it still oscillates after the road has stopped changing.

When going faster (10 mph) it definitely does NOT bounce.

I remember noticing more bouncing at higher speeds before I stiffened up the back shocks. Atm I'm at 1.25 turns in the rear and 1.5 in the front.

[phate]

Originally Posted by Chimmike I would say it's exacerbating the road, or magnifying it. Over normal asphalt it's fine, but over concrete, especially undulations on concrete bridges, it's fucking ridiculous. I don't think the konis can handle these springs. I have the same setup mentioned 600r and 525fr IMO.

Have you tested them at full soft and full hard? Curious if that changes what you're experiencing.

Originally Posted by Dimenus When going slow (< 5 mph) it still oscillates after the road has stopped changing. When going faster (10 mph) it definitely does NOT bounce. I remember noticing more bouncing at higher speeds before I stiffened up the back shocks. Atm I'm at 1.25 turns in the rear and 1.5 in the front.

The low speed oscillation probably needs more low speed rebound damping, so I would bump them up a little further. If you find the back end feeling weird over quick/successive sharp bumps (jacking down, mainly), you may need to back it off until you find a happy medium between the two.

[Dimenus]

Originally Posted by Chimmike I would say it's exacerbating the road, or magnifying it. Over normal asphalt it's fine, but over concrete, especially undulations on concrete bridges, it's fucking ridiculous. I don't think the konis can handle these springs. I have the same setup mentioned 600r and 525fr IMO.

I too think the car can be annoying on undulated concrete. How stiff do you have yours set currently?

[Chimmike]

Originally Posted by Dimenus I too think the car can be annoying on undulated concrete. How stiff do you have yours set currently?

I had both on full stiff and backed them both down a bit. Really no noticeable difference to me.

[[R]usty]

My stock rear suspension just started making a horrible creaking noise. I think my rear shocks are finally gone, I'm going to try and install these early next week.

I'll let everyone know how the 440 front 525 rear combo feels. I'll be sure to do a whole write up about it including video with my gopro mounted somewhere under my car showing the suspension in action.

[therza2169]

Hear anything else from GC on the spring cups? I was 4th on the list and still haven't received mine.

[RPM]

Originally Posted by therza2169 Hear anything else from GC on the spring cups? I was 4th on the list and still haven't received mine.

Donovan said they all went out. If you don't have it by the end of next week, either let us know or give GC a call and ask for Donovan.

[therza2169]

Originally Posted by RPM Donovan said they all went out. If you don't have it by the end of next week, either let us know or give GC a call and ask for Donovan.

Will do. Thank you for the update.

[- POD -]

Had mine show up Thursday.

[Dimenus]

No package for me. Could have been delayed due to the holiday. If nothing shows up today I'll give GC a call.

[RPM]

Originally Posted by Dimenus No package for me. Could have been delayed due to the holiday. If nothing shows up today I'll give GC a call.

Sounds good. If you need anything from me, just let me know.

[monkey.bones.007]

I've not gotten anything either. I'll be calling tomorrow as well.

[461_SS]

As of yesterday nothing in the mail. Granted they are coming from California and I live on the East Coast... Anyone know how they came by mail? USPS first class perhaps?

I also installed the front struts this weekend. If anyone has not installed them yet, I recommend sanding the paint of the shock where it goes into the knuckle as well as sanding the inside of the knuckle (This goes along with spreading the knuckle). My pop and I did not do this (sand the inside of the knuckle and strut) and it was a huge PITA to the point where we took it out and redid it. After that it went together smoothly.

After riding over many surfaces the last few days the fronts feel great and the car feels planted and it rides beautifully. 1000% better than the old 63k gen1 struts that were blown. Rear shocks are in. Springs will be going in next.

[[R]usty]

Originally Posted by 461_SS As of yesterday nothing in the mail. Granted they are coming from California and I live on the East Coast... Anyone know how they came by mail? USPS first class perhaps? I also installed the front struts this weekend. If anyone has not installed them yet, I recommend sanding the paint of the shock where it goes into the knuckle as well as sanding the inside of the knuckle (This goes along with spreading the knuckle). My pop and I did not do this (sand the inside of the knuckle and strut) and it was a huge PITA to the point where we took it out and redid it. After that it went together smoothly. After riding over many surfaces the last few days the fronts feel great and the car feels planted and it rides beautifully. 1000% better than the old 63k gen1 struts that were blown. Rear shocks are in. Springs will be going in next.

Pics? Glad to hear you like them.

[461_SS]

Originally Posted by rustysurfsa Pics? Glad to hear you like them.

Pics of what exactly?


No package in the mail yesterday either. Are they sending these things by snail or what?

[Dimenus]

No cups here either.

[timmcc02]

Dont worry guys im in california and I dont have them yet

[Dimenus]

Is anyone on the 425/500s that came from 525/600. Wifey is after me to get softer Springs.

[Ewind]

Originally Posted by RPM Donovan said they all went out. If you don't have it by the end of next week, either let us know or give GC a call and ask for Donovan.

Did the Canadian orders get shipped to you first?

[monkey.bones.007]

I was busy this week and forgot to call, but I've not gotten the spring cups. Hopefully Monday I remember to call.

[RPM]

Originally Posted by Ewind Did the Canadian orders get shipped to you first?

No, they didn't. I called Donovan on Friday and he swears they all shipped out. I told him no one had gotten them, so he said he'd check on it, but I never heard back. I'll have to try again on Monday if one of you doesn't beat me to it.

[Helrich]

Over 9000 hours in MS Paint

[461_SS]

I contacted Donovan on Friday. He said they were all shipped out the 26th (broken record), but i still fail to see how it takes ~7 business days to get from Cali to PA even if they go USPS first class. He said if I do not receive them by Tuesday to call him again and they will ship another set out that will be here before the weekend (I'm supposed to be installing the rear springs next weekend). So I hope they will be here by Tuesday so I can't call and say something about it!

[Helrich]

Originally Posted by 461_SS I contacted Donovan on Friday. He said they were all shipped out the 26th (broken record), but i still fail to see how it takes ~7 business days to get from Cali to PA even if they go USPS first class. He said if I do not receive them by Tuesday to call him again and they will ship another set out that will be here before the weekend (I'm supposed to be installing the rear springs next weekend). So I hope they will be here by Tuesday so I can't call and say something about it!

I guess he didn't get tracking info. If a dude in Ca still hasn't gotten them yet then either they didn't ship on the 26th or the delivery truck driver stole them to use as butt plugs. Been waiting for these to do my RSB and rear shock adjustments because I don't feel like tearing everything back apart a third time just to put them on. Oh well!

[Mattyhawk1]

California person here, no delivery received yet.

[- POD -]

I guess I should clarify. Mine was sent to my parents house in Washington and then they shipped them up to me in Canada.

Not sure why I got a set earlier...

[therza2169]

Mine finally came in in Saturday and I'm Ohio. Hopefully everyone else gets them soon.

[RPM]

Just got an email from GC:

"We had a number of the packages returned late last week, I apologize for the delay. They are being re-shipped this afternoon. Please have any customers who haven't received theirs contact me directly.
Donovan"