Cpe intake manifold

[865ms3]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Good thread Justin. Looks like i'll be welding my plate on before install. I've finished smoothing the v-stacks, just waiting on some fuel line and a chrysler t-body gasket before i install it. I still think the intake manifold has a lot of potential. I'm sure that paper gasket could be swapped out for a custom rubber gasket, or something a little more robust. Or, cp-e could even just weld the plates on at the factory if need be. Either way... it'll be curious to see some real numbers at some point, even if it's not apples to apples with the JMF setup.

Off topic. But glad to see you still around and fooling with speeds. Been a while.


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[NCspecV81]

welp no real reason to move on from the JMF.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by 865ms3 Off topic. But glad to see you still around and fooling with speeds. Been a while.

Yeah, been a busy last couple years... hahaha. My work had actually blocked all car related websites a couple years ago (can't imagine why)... but i managed to get them to relax it some. I've still been doing lots of car stuff what little spare time i have though. Maybe I'll post up a thread showing some of them.

Feels good to be back though!

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Yeah, been a busy last couple years... hahaha. My work had actually blocked all car related websites a couple years ago (can't imagine why)... but i managed to get them to relax it some. I've still been doing lots of car stuff what little spare time i have though. Maybe I'll post up a thread showing some of them. Feels good to be back though!

I believe the answers are: proxy server, and/or VPN.

[xfeejayx]

Plate is definitely for casting. Have to make sure that the mold material gets out of it. You could cast it without a big hole, but it gets pricey real quick.

I say that with as much certainty as a non CP-e employee can have.

Not sure what makes them confident those tiny screws would hold back 300+ pounds of force (VERY rough calc based off of pictures, but I think I'm being conservative).

[Mazdazilla6]

IMO the bolts being that small are too far spaced apart to provide adequate clamping. More bolts would definitely help. As would a rubber gasket, I honestly thought they were providing it with a rubber gasket already.

Hope you can get it to work as I'd love to see some results.

[865ms3]

^too close to race season. I bet a jmf with pi goes back on to crank out a low 10


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[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Yeah, been a busy last couple years... hahaha. My work had actually blocked all car related websites a couple years ago (can't imagine why)... but i managed to get them to relax it some. I've still been doing lots of car stuff what little spare time i have though. Maybe I'll post up a thread showing some of them. Feels good to be back though!

holy shit he lives



in other news, an oring on the plate would probably be the best option aside from welding it up. if that plate is as stiff as Justin seems to feel it is, the oring would give it a little room to wiggle without losing its seal.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny holy shit he lives

I'd say i'm 80% alive.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx Not sure what makes them confident those tiny screws would hold back 300+ pounds of force (VERY rough calc based off of pictures, but I think I'm being conservative).

CP-e is smart ppl, so I needed to check myself. On paper, everything looks good, there is plenty of bolt/screw there for the load. In fact, 2 screws might take enough load in pure tension. The downfall was likely that the threads were crappy like Justin mentioned, and/or the loading was not in full tension because the plate deflected under load.

Find the screws for me!

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I'd say i'm 80% alive.

we'll take it!

[JFSpeed3]

Not sure what grade those screws are but a grade 5 10-32 can hold a lot by itself.

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[Easter Bunny]

I'm more concerned about how thin the metal they are screwing into is. There is just very limited thread engagement.

[Justin@Freektune]

So after talking with a few people today.... None of this will happen super quick, however JMF was dropped off to make it PI. I'll make the switch over to PI. CPe is sending me a new gasket (thank you to JP at edge for jumping right in and making the calls).

After fully looking over everything and seeing that it was more likely a backfire due to the amount of pre throttle body fuel and meth, I will assume the pressure in that mani was quite intense and that gasket and cover was the weakest link. Vs a coupler exploding.

I may not be able to test both right away with a bunch of things I need to happen - A) make it to ENM, and B) make it to some spring time drag racing when the weather is prime time. But I will still make a valid attempt at a comparison.

[SofaKingAwesome]

Originally Posted by Justin@Freektune So after talking with a few people today.... None of this will happen super quick, however JMF was dropped off to make it PI. I'll make the switch over to PI. CPe is sending me a new gasket (thank you to JP at edge for jumping right in and making the calls). After fully looking over everything and seeing that it was more likely a backfire due to the amount of pre throttle body fuel and meth, I will assume the pressure in that mani was quite intense and that gasket and cover was the weakest link. Vs a coupler exploding. I may not be able to test both right away with a bunch of things I need to happen - A) make it to ENM, and B) make it to some spring time drag racing when the weather is prime time. But I will still make a valid attempt at a comparison.

You've got 2 weeks to work on the other setup now, take your time.

[Justin@Freektune]

Originally Posted by SofaKingAwesome You've got 2 weeks to work on the other setup now, take your time.

Still need to get my roll cage done too. Should be fun finding all this "time" lol. Good news is car will be driving again early next week and I can focus on getting PI sorted out, and that shouldn't take too long.

[Easter Bunny]

So wait which manifold will you have on in a week?

[Mazdazilla6]

Or is it two weeks?

[djuosnteisn]

This thread is kinda funny...

SPEED PERF6RMANC3 & JM Fabrications Intake Manifold


Not trying to poke an ant hill, but they're claiming some fairly large flow disparities between runners 1/4 and 2/3... which would seemingly apply to the mazda design too, no? Or is there something different on the mazda design that has already addressed this proposed flow imbalance?

It's funny, because imbalance or not, the JMFs have proven successful for some very high hp builds... which, in my mind pays testament to how well our cars react to port injection. PI + DI is the perfect combination for very efficient power IMO.

Can't wait to get my cp-e mani on and start enjoying it.

[Justin@Freektune]

Boost really changes everything IMO. it's why even the stock untouched mani will make great power and the results from Clints egt testing way back when even showed something far different than we all thought.

Got my new injectors in yesterday and the rest of my fuel system components ordered so we should be rolling again by the end of the week if time permits



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[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn This thread is kinda funny...

Seems kind of like a marketing spiel to me, I saw no mention of any actual numbers from their flow testing. Their stock manifold already outflows their head anyway so upgrading the manifold is pretty moot and there are other ways to gain more fuel than investing 1k into a manifold.

[djuosnteisn]

Slow as molasses... but still making progress. I'm wrapping up a few loose ends on the pcv side of things, and still need to order a 4 channel aux fuel controller... but then it should be ready to fire up.

It's been pretty hard to find time for the project lately, haha. And every time i complete one thing, i see three other things i've been putting off. So this time i've just decided to address all the little stuff i've been ignoring for so long. It's coming out pretty nice though, so hopefully it's worth the wait.







I should probably make my own thread.....

[Justin@Freektune]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Slow as molasses... but still making progress. I'm wrapping up a few loose ends on the pcv side of things, and still need to order a 4 channel aux fuel controller... but then it should be ready to fire up. It's been pretty hard to find time for the project lately, haha. And every time i complete one thing, i see three other things i've been putting off. So this time i've just decided to address all the little stuff i've been ignoring for so long. It's coming out pretty nice though, so hopefully it's worth the wait. I should probably make my own thread.....

Engine bay is looking great man. Looking forward to seeing your results

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Slow as molasses... but still making progress. I'm wrapping up a few loose ends on the pcv side of things, and still need to order a 4 channel aux fuel controller... but then it should be ready to fire up. It's been pretty hard to find time for the project lately, haha. And every time i complete one thing, i see three other things i've been putting off. So this time i've just decided to address all the little stuff i've been ignoring for so long. It's coming out pretty nice though, so hopefully it's worth the wait. I should probably make my own thread.....

#Lifegoals .

Someday, when I have unlimited money for toys . . .


















I'll probably have to buy a minivan.

[AwAfrican]

I agree if money was no object I'd still keep the speed go balls to the wall and have a wonderful. No minivan tho I'd rather have a suv. But enough thread derailment by yours truly

@djosnteisn; any further updates

[Easter Bunny]

Buy mazda 5. Install ms3 drivetrain. Profit

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Easter Bunny Buy mazda 5. Install ms3 drivetrain. Profit

@MATT DAMOND;

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[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 @MATT DAMOND; Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I said install ms3 drivetrain not sleep in the back.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Slow as molasses... I should probably make my own thread.....

I think so lol

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Alpha I think so lol

I swear you only log on to look for this manifold. LOL

[Dano]

I think its safe to say the CPE is DOA considering the FoST IM option

interested to see pricing for the DM adapter plate/kit.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 I swear you only log on to look for this manifold. LOL

Pretty much haha! That's all I need is a good PI system/mani to finally see what my 7163 baby can do!

Nothing worse than being fully built, sleeved, properly clutched, with a great turbo kit and only running 22 psi up top lol

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by Alpha Pretty much haha! That's all I need is a good PI system/mani to finally see what my 7163 baby can do! Nothing worse than being fully built, sleeved, properly clutched, with a great turbo kit and only running 22 psi up top lol

Bruh, come see me. I got you, for real.

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[qtrmile beast]

Originally Posted by Alpha Pretty much haha! That's all I need is a good PI system/mani to finally see what my 7163 baby can do! Nothing worse than being fully built, sleeved, properly clutched, with a great turbo kit and only running 22 psi up top lol

Sounds just like me!!!!LOL

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by AwAfrican @djosnteisn; any further updates

Not much. Literally just waiting for two fittings before i can fire it up. Then i need to wire up the AEM F/IC and figure out how to set it up. Looks quite powerful compared to the split second controller.

I'll make a new thread when i actually have something worth posting.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Not much. Literally just waiting for two fittings before i can fire it up. Then i need to wire up the AEM F/IC and figure out how to set it up. Looks quite powerful compared to the split second controller. I'll make a new thread when i actually have something worth posting.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Not much. Literally just waiting for two fittings before i can fire it up. Then i need to wire up the AEM F/IC and figure out how to set it up. Looks quite powerful compared to the split second controller. I'll make a new thread when i actually have something worth posting.

That is an intriguing controller and seems powerful for the price. I will definitely be interested in hearing how you set it up. I imagine tapping into the O2 sensor harness probably isn't a good idea because then the two ECU's will be fighting each other to regulate lambda. Do you have to tap into the factory injector harness, I'm wondering? Or can it just batch fire, or set injector timing based on the crank and cam sensor inputs? It's hard to decipher this from the instruction manual.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by MD1032 That is an intriguing controller and seems powerful for the price. I will definitely be interested in hearing how you set it up. I imagine tapping into the O2 sensor harness probably isn't a good idea because then the two ECU's will be fighting each other to regulate lambda. Do you have to tap into the factory injector harness, I'm wondering? Or can it just batch fire, or set injector timing based on the crank and cam sensor inputs? It's hard to decipher this from the instruction manual.

I'm spoiled on the 6 cause it has an external injector driver module. There's four 5V control signals from the ECU to the injector driver... so at most all i'll have to do is make a simple circuit to invert them and possibly scale them up to 12V. On the speed 3, you'd want to make a different circuit i'd imagine, cause the ~70V signals applied to the injectors are probably pretty ugly with fly back voltages and such. It could certainly be done though.

Like most F/IC installs, i won't be using all the available features... and i agree, the user manual is pretty vague on some stuff. My initial approach will be to use the MAF voltage as the load variable for the fueling maps, and set them up for a nearly fixed percentage of the OEM IPW. That way I can just use a fixed scalar on the maf in ATR to dial back the stock IPW. It will most likely require some fine tuning, but that's to be expected. I really like the idea of using the oem IPW to derive the aux IPW though, cause it essentially gives my aux injectors access to all the same resources that the ecu uses to calculate fueling.

Beyond that, i'll use the generic 12V output to drive a solenoid to turn my surge tank fuel pump on/off at a given boost point. And i want to at least investigate the ignition driver signals out the f/ic. If i remember right, the mazda runs ~6ms dwell time on the ignition coils... but i have no clue if that fully saturates them. If i run into ignition issues at higher power (I don't think i will based off the people making 700+whp on stock ignition.. but "if")... it might be possible to get more dwell out of the AEM. I have no clue though, and that's very low on my priority list.


And I do believe you can set the system up for batch, but i intend on using the sequential fire, just because i can, haha.

[MD1032]

Yeah it doesn't even mention batch in the manual for the thing at all, but I can't imagine there isn't a way to do that. I mean you might as well start with batch fire mode since if you time it with the DI injectors, you're going to be firing at a closed intake valve anyway.

How does the timing work out in terms of scaling the IPW? I imagine the PI injectors use higher IPW's since they're operating at such a low pressure, right? Sorry, I'm a noob to these types of things.

[Dano]

I think I speak for most of us here by saying that I do, indeed, miss these kind of, in-depth, explanatory posts from Dustin. Not that there are not other very informative posts by equally talented guys in here, OP included.

I fully expect to be mentioned in this thread you speak of

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I'm spoiled on the 6 cause it has an external injector driver module. There's four 5V control signals from the ECU to the injector driver... so at most all i'll have to do is make a simple circuit to invert them and possibly scale them up to 12V. On the speed 3, you'd want to make a different circuit i'd imagine, cause the ~70V signals applied to the injectors are probably pretty ugly with fly back voltages and such. It could certainly be done though. Like most F/IC installs, i won't be using all the available features... and i agree, the user manual is pretty vague on some stuff. My initial approach will be to use the MAF voltage as the load variable for the fueling maps, and set them up for a nearly fixed percentage of the OEM IPW. That way I can just use a fixed scalar on the maf in ATR to dial back the stock IPW. It will most likely require some fine tuning, but that's to be expected. I really like the idea of using the oem IPW to derive the aux IPW though, cause it essentially gives my aux injectors access to all the same resources that the ecu uses to calculate fueling. Beyond that, i'll use the generic 12V output to drive a solenoid to turn my surge tank fuel pump on/off at a given boost point. And i want to at least investigate the ignition driver signals out the f/ic. If i remember right, the mazda runs ~6ms dwell time on the ignition coils... but i have no clue if that fully saturates them. If i run into ignition issues at higher power (I don't think i will based off the people making 700+whp on stock ignition.. but "if")... it might be possible to get more dwell out of the AEM. I have no clue though, and that's very low on my priority list. And I do believe you can set the system up for batch, but i intend on using the sequential fire, just because i can, haha.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Yeah it doesn't even mention batch in the manual for the thing at all, but I can't imagine there isn't a way to do that. I mean you might as well start with batch fire mode since if you time it with the DI injectors, you're going to be firing at a closed intake valve anyway. How does the timing work out in terms of scaling the IPW? I imagine the PI injectors use higher IPW's since they're operating at such a low pressure, right? Sorry, I'm a noob to these types of things.

You could probably just use a single oem injector signal tied to all 4 f/ic inputs for batch fire. They'd all just be timed off one of the injectors.

And the stock injectors begin firing just as the intake event begins (valve starts to open). In fact (and i'm possibly wrong cause i'm speaking solely from memory), i think the injector firing varies with load. At light loads, the injectors fire some time after the intake valve has already opened. Part way through the intake stroke. As load increases, the IPW pushes closer toward the intake valve opening event (but not before the valve opens), and then pushes further toward the compression stroke and even into the power stroke (idc's over 100%). So timing the aux injectors off the oem should be perfect.

Before i hook anything up though, i'll be looking at everything on my oscilloscope to be certain.