4 Piston Brake Kits for a 2010 MS3 (and what happens when you push the stock brakes as far as they will go)

[Celestspeed3]

Originally Posted by Mizzle Anyone else get sick to their tum tums watching the tire peel away from the rim in the corners? lol

More negative camber will fix that.

Taking the backing plate off will allow the rotor to cool better. However you should add an insulating sock to the ABS sensor.

Edit: you could always punch a hole in the backing plate and use it as a mount brake ducts.

[MSP611]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 More negative camber will fix that. Taking the backing plate off will allow the rotor to cool better. However you should add an insulating sock to the ABS sensor. Edit: you could always punch a hole in the backing plate and use it as a mount brake ducts.

Explain/pics or fail

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[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 Edit: you could always punch a hole in the backing plate and use it as a mount brake ducts.

This is what I plan on doing for next season. Similar to what I believe Tomas had done.

[Celestspeed3]

Use something like these to protect the ABS sensor. Use stainless tie straps cause he plastic ones will melt.

http://www.designengineering.com/cat...-protect-boots

Maybe Tomas can post you photos or has a link for you. @Tomas;

[Reedy]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 More negative camber will fix that. Taking the backing plate off will allow the rotor to cool better. However you should add an insulating sock to the ABS sensor. Edit: you could always punch a hole in the backing plate and use it as a mount brake ducts.

I was going to do that with the abs sensors but there are other rubber and urethane bushings around the wheel hub (suspension and steering linkages etc) that made me think it would be best to leave the backing plates on. I just bent them back away from the disc so they don't trap so much heat.

[Code Monkey]

DBA 4000 here and XP12 pads, definitely not for city driving.

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 More negative camber will fix that. Taking the backing plate off will allow the rotor to cool better. However you should add an insulating sock to the ABS sensor. Edit: you could always punch a hole in the backing plate and use it as a mount brake ducts.

Backing plate as in the sheet metal piece that protects the brake rotors from water or as in the plate that holds the brake pads? Backing plate in the U.S. of A is ussually the metal plate that holds the brake pad. I think what you are talking about is the brake rotor shield. Or not?

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 Use something like these to protect the ABS sensor. Use stainless tie straps cause he plastic ones will melt. Titanium Protect-A-Boots 010541 | Purchase DEI, CryO2, Ny-Trex, Boom Mat & SPA Turbo Products | Design Engineering, Inc. - Thermal Performance Products Maybe Tomas can post you photos or has a link for you. @Tomas;

I don't think the sheath covering the sensor will help. I believe the heat that melts the sensor plug (not the sensor itself) comes from induction via the knuckle. Not heat radiation from the rotor. Having said that it certainly would not harm anything to use it.

[Reedy]

Originally Posted by Tomas Backing plate as in the sheet metal piece that protects the brake rotors from water or as in the plate that holds the brake pads? Backing plate in the U.S. of A is ussually the metal plate that holds the brake pad. I think what you are talking about is the brake rotor shield. Or not? I don't think the sheath covering the sensor will help. I believe the heat that melts the sensor plug (not the sensor itself) comes from induction via the knuckle. Not heat radiation from the rotor. Having said that it certainly would not harm anything to use it.

Heh did you take a photo of my ABS sensor?? Looks exactly like it!

[Celestspeed3]

@Tomas;

I was referring to the metal peice that covers the back of the rotor? Dust shield?

I've seen people mount the brakes cooling ducts to them.

[Reedy]

What's a good online store you guys use to buy brake pads from? My regular retailer doesn't stock the brands I want to try out next.

I'm keen to try out:

Hawk DTC 60 or 70
Ferodo DS3000 (Not sure they are available for our cars?)
Carbotech XP10 or 12

Anywhere ship those brands to Aus? I've heard lots of great reports about the Carbotechs in particular.

One of the big problems I have with the Project Mu pads I am currently using is they don't have the retaining clip on the outside pad, so the pad doesnt retract properly with the caliper and the sucker drags on the rotor even when I am off the brakes. wouldnt be such a problem if they didnt squeal so badly but it really does make them unbearable.

[Todd98SE]

KNSbrakes.com

[Tokay444]

I will second @KNS Brakes;. Great crew of folks over there and ready to please.
Super helpful and very knowledgable.

[valveking35]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 @Tomas; I was referring to the metal peice that covers the back of the rotor? Dust shield? I've seen people mount the brakes cooling ducts to them.

The brake dust shields are way too flimsy to mount anything (anything over 1/2 lb maybe). No bueno.

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[El_Diablo]

With a duct mounted they should firm up, worst case weld a piece of angle on the back.

[ABolewski]

Quotes i've had range around the $3500au mark which is roughly equal to the American national debt once you convert the currencies.

This, made me rofl.

[daafisch]

I also suggest KNS brakes. Real good guys and they know their shit

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[Reedy]

I just changed back to my street brakes then and my front right dust boot is starting to perish quite badly, gonna need to replace those suckers soon.

[Tomas]

I've run XP 10 and 12s and DTC 60 in the front.
DTC were the best ones. The carbotechs don't bite into the rotor enough. They leave too much material on the surface of the rotor causing what most people incorrectly refer to as a warped rotor.

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Tomas I've run XP 10 and 12s and DTC 60 in the front. DTC were the best ones. The carbotechs don't bite into the rotor enough. They leave too much material on the surface of the rotor causing what most people incorrectly refer to as a warped rotor.

I experienced this when I was running OEMs on the street and XP10's for the track. Now that I'm running a Carbotech street pad (AX6) I haven't had that issue.

[Manny]

@brandonf;

[brandonf]

I'm about to replace my front centric rotors/carbotech ax6 pads, probably next weekend. I'll take a few pics.

[Reedy]

Originally Posted by Tomas I've run XP 10 and 12s and DTC 60 in the front. DTC were the best ones. The carbotechs don't bite into the rotor enough. They leave too much material on the surface of the rotor causing what most people incorrectly refer to as a warped rotor.

Guys that I race with use DTC60's and they crack rotors left right and centre. Carbotechs main claim to fame is that they are easy on rotors so that adds weight to the argument there.

[Reedy]

I ordered a set of Carbotech XP10's today, will see how they go next time I go racing in the new year.

I also ordered 2 new dust boots for the calipers, has anyone replaced those themselves? I haven't looked closely so am not sure if I can do it easily next time I change brake pads or if I need to get it done in the shop.

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Reedy I ordered a set of Carbotech XP10's today, will see how they go next time I go racing in the new year. I also ordered 2 new dust boots for the calipers, has anyone replaced those themselves? I haven't looked closely so am not sure if I can do it easily next time I change brake pads or if I need to get it done in the shop.

I'm curious about the boots as well.

Hopefully the XP10's work out for you as they have for me.

[Celestspeed3]

The boots aren't bad. I've changed them at home. The hard part I had was pressing the boot back into the caliper. It is difficult but not impossible. The first time I did it I had it all prepped after hour of trying and my dealership did it for free and explained to me how to do it with a socket.

[Tokay444]

Are we talking about the boot on the piston, or the boots for the sliders?

[daafisch]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Are we talking about the boot on the piston, or the boots for the sliders?

I'm talking about the piston. Mine is almost gone.

[Tokay444]

Cool.
The rubber slider bushings should be replaced at every brake service as a side note.
They are marked R in the service manual.

[Reedy]

Yea ill get my calipers rebuilt in the near future but am just replacing the damaged boot for now. Hopefully get some extra life out of the seals.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by Reedy I ordered a set of Carbotech XP10's today, will see how they go next time I go racing in the new year. I also ordered 2 new dust boots for the calipers, has anyone replaced those themselves? I haven't looked closely so am not sure if I can do it easily next time I change brake pads or if I need to get it done in the shop.

Haven't done it yet. Was planning to do it the next time I change pads though (with perhaps full rebuilds) after I saw the condition they were in when I changed them over the summer...

Let us know how it goes.

[hyedracyl]

I found that using a hose clamp on the dust boots aids greatly in their proper installation. I have had to replace a few on my wife's MS3 since it spends a bit of time out on the racetrack. A hose clamp can be adjusted in diameter, allowing for a proper fit around the dust boot without compressing the metal band internal to the rubber boot - which would make getting it over the caliper mounting location even more difficult than it already is. I used a wood block on top of the clamp in order to distribute force across the entire hose clamp, rather than concentrating force in any particular location.

I tried using DBA rotors and then went back to the OEM ones personally because I was able to warp the DBAs in a single weekend at Road America - though I'll admit that there's a lot of high speed braking to be done at that particular facility. It's the only place that I've ever been up into 6th gear on the Mazda. Even at Mid Ohio I wasn't able to get the car into 6th gear.

Daytona has so much room to run that you could easily get into 6th though. Heck, there you'd probably find out where terminal velocity on the MS3 is... Never been there in the Mazda though. Maybe someday I'll get the chance. That would really do a number on the OEM braking system though. You'd need to do some serious upgrades to negotiate Daytona safely.

[Reedy]

Where do you buy the dust boots and caliper seals from? I bought what I thought was a pair of dust boots online but they turned out to be rotor backing plates. Which is actually a good thing cause I am going to modify them to see if I can get some proper brake ventilation/ducting in there without having to trash my stock ones. Will see how that turns out soon.

[Reedy]

Carbotech XP10 and new Rotors went on the car yesterday. They feel somewhat similar to the Project Mu Club Racers I was using, will see how badly they squeal when they have properly bedded in. During installation I noticed that my ABS sensor plugs are more melted than ever, so the backing plates aren't really helping that. I will try some exhaust wrap and see if that helps.

Here's how the surface of my old rotors looked.

[Crarrs]

Are any of those "cracks" actually deep enough to catch your fingernail on? That looks like pretty standard heat checking.

[Reedy]

Nah they're still serviceable but since I changed pad compounds and they don't have enough thickness to be machined I just chucked them out.

[TRex]

kind of off topic but since we were talking about heat earlier...talked with a friend at work that used to race neon's in the 90's

in order to combat heat he had pucks fabbed up made out of phenolic plastic, they are circular and stepped so the step fits the id of the brake piston, this offers insulation between the piston and caliper (the main heat path for heat into the brake fluid)

this was a common thing used by teams in his league, after doing research real racing teams use titanium pistons (titanium is very heat resistant compared to steel) or pucks made out of titanium

he gave me some examples he used on his cars and during my next brake job i plan to measure the ID of our piston so i can have some fabbed up

now unfortunately without a heat probe in the area or back to back track runs to feel for fade i will not be able to provide quantitative data to signify improvement

however, the general idea of insulation is sound and i see no reason not to try it

will make a thread regarding them once i get around to doing them this year

[Reedy]

Does that mean this puck will be sandwiched between the piston and brake pad or does it simply fit inside the piston? If its actually on the contact surface then you will want something very strong and very thin. any Added thickness will make harder if not impossible to fit around the disc.

[El_Diablo]

A big thing with the vette and f-body guys is to use titanium backing plates which are available from a few manufactures.

[TRex]

Originally Posted by Reedy Does that mean this puck will be sandwiched between the piston and brake pad or does it simply fit inside the piston? If its actually on the contact surface then you will want something very strong and very thin. any Added thickness will make harder if not impossible to fit around the disc.

both, it is stepped so it goes inside the piston and between the piston and the pad


strength isnt as big of an issue as you would think as it will only be in compression, but yes this phenolic plastic is quite strong, then main killer was heat, properties changed due to repeated use and they would have to be replaced

titanium would be ideal, but that is extremely expensive

[El_Diablo]

You may want to just try titanium backing plates. They're a lot more effective than one would think.