Am I on the right track? log/map included

[torq]

Hi all, could use a second set of eyes on this one. My map is Stage2_SF_TIH_93 (15th revision) modified according to a mix of the guides on here. I'm running 94 octane E10 and these logs were taken at 45F.

In the attached 4th gear pull I see a small amount of KR in the middle of my WOT pull. Things I noticed:

- This was the cell after my timing tried to go from 4.5 to 5
- My boost of 18.36 had just exceeded its target of 18
- My HPFP actual of 1741 dipped slightly below my desired of 1749

Action(s) I'm thinking of so far, reduce timing to 4.5 for the 3500 range. Not sure about the boost as my WGDC is already set pretty low and I'm letting the BEC bring it to target as per the advice on this forum. Maybe I'm being too picky?

How does the rest look? I think I'm flowing approx g/s as I should be with my mod level and my HFFP hits 1900+ in middle of WOT so I don't think that's the issue.

Appreciated!

[ASHMS3]

Originally Posted by torq Hi all, could use a second set of eyes on this one. My map is Stage2_SF_TIH_93 (15th revision) modified according to a mix of the guides on here. I'm running 94 octane E10 and these logs were taken at 45F. In the attached 4th gear pull I see a small amount of KR in the middle of my WOT pull. Things I noticed: - This was the cell after my timing tried to go from 4.5 to 5 - My boost of 18.36 had just exceeded its target of 18 - My HPFP actual of 1741 dipped slightly below my desired of 1749 Action(s) I'm thinking of so far, reduce timing to 4.5 for the 3500 range. Not sure about the boost as my WGDC is already set pretty low and I'm letting the BEC bring it to target as per the advice on this forum. Maybe I'm being too picky? How does the rest look? I think I'm flowing approx g/s as I should be with my mod level and my HFFP hits 1900+ in middle of WOT so I don't think that's the issue. Appreciated!

FP looks good, if it dropped way down under 1500-1600 you would have problems. I wouldn't worry too much about the KR, if it always repeats in the same place then try to reduce timing in that area. But, if it's random then don't sweat it. Also, I wouldn't worry about overboosting by less than 1 psi. You are not going to hold 18.00 psi. It will fluctuate some based on a lot of variables. Another thing to keep in mind is that the KR occured during spool up which is fairly common. See this thread for more info.

KR explained

[Keko]

Before you make changes to your map, did you do more than one run? You should do at least 3 to make sure the KR you are seeing is not false. I will sometimes get .5-1.0 KR is a log but the next logs will be clean.

[ASHMS3]

Originally Posted by Keko Before you make changes to your map, did you do more than one run? You should do at least 3 to make sure the KR you are seeing is not false. I will sometimes get .5-1.0 KR is a log but the next logs will be clean.

This is what I was getting at, you just explained it better.

[torq]

Indeed I did, I just picked one, they all showed similar symptoms around that RPM range. I think I still have a little room above 5k to push timing another degree or two as well.

I still have my stock plugs in as winter is almost here and I don't want to foul them. Have NGK one step colder on the shelf, I'll toss them in during the spring I'm thinking. That would probably give me a little more room.

Might have to pick up a TMM/PMM as I'm getting wheelspin (I think) when I take a 3rd gear pull and get whacked results, example attached (datalog1). VD shows 600ft/lbs of torque, sigh.

Would you agree or think it's something worse? This log is taken up a slight grade, it almost feels like the front comes up when it happens.

I took some third gear pulls later that turned out ok (datalog15) so I don't think it's my clutch. It's starting to get chilly here (40F) so my tires might just be stiffening up.

advice appreciated!

[Keko]

I'm at work right now so i cant graph these logs, but if its reading 600tq then it would be pretty safe to say that it's wheelspin.

Also, when pushing the tuning limits near final timing, it's a good idea to do 4th gear logs instead. 3rd gear logs are not as accurate since the log happens faster, you can get wheel spin, hit different loads, etc. That being said, it's not easy to find a place for 4th gear logs (I still don't have a spot). When I start dialing in my timing I will need to find a spot.

[fortressofcomfort]

The chilly weather recently is definitely making the OEM Dunlops hard and less sticky. I too am starting to get a hint of wheelspin in 3rd gear on spoolup.

OP: It really is better to use 4th gear logs if at all possible due to it just loading and pushing the car harder. I consider boost to be "on target/at commanded/acceptable" if its within 0.5psi of commanded, boost "spikes" of up to +1.5psi of commanded acceptable as long as there isn't too much oscillation immediately afterward, and I consider af/rs to be "on target/at commanded" if they are within +/- 0.1 of commanded. For example, if I'm targetting 18psi and 11.6 af/r, I consider boost of 17.5 - 18.5 correct (no need for BEC or load cap tweaks) and af/rs of 11.48 - 11.71 as correct (no need for MAF CAL tweaks). But that's just me, some like their shit real tight but I don't like spending too much time "chasing my tail." Also I don't like to see any KR during a 3rd gear run because if there is KR during a 3rd gear run there will definitely be KR during a 4th gear run (unless you've adjusted your Boost Tables Boost Comp 4th gear to < 1.0. I like my timing set so that during a 4th gear run I get no more than a couple random knock events no more than 0.7. This is just one perspective to answering your question of "Maybe I'm being too picky?"

[torq]

Thanks fortress, good reassurance!

Agree about the 4th gear logs, the OP log is a 4th and I'm only getting a tiny bit of knock on spool up. As I'm doing a hybrid tune I can make us of my load targets to manage wheelspin. For the 3rd gear wheel spin I am going to adjust my TRL 3rd gear norm BAT table from

500	1000	1500	2000	2250	2500	3000	3500	4000	4500	5000	5500	6000	6500	7000
0.75	1.00	1.25	1.50	1.80	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	1.80

to

500	1000	1500	2000	2250	2500	3000	3500	4000	4500	5000	5500	6000	6500	7000
0.75	1.00	1.25	1.50	1.80	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.00	2.10	2.20	2.20	2.20	2.20	1.80

as my wheel spin seems to start when I go above 2 load in third. That will obviously need some experimentation to get the number exactly right. I'm only at 18k on my (race)car of which only about 3/5s of that is on the summer tires so I can't justify flipping them to nice 235s just yet.

Sound like a plan?

[fortressofcomfort]

Depends on what your goals are. If its going the track to run some 1/4 mile times then I wouldn't limit anything but 1st gear

Alot of traction issues can be solved by having a smooth ramp up of your boost and also rolling into the throttle when in 1st or 2nd gear.

I fooled around with the APP tables and Load tables for a while but in the end launching was still unpredictable, the load numbers or throttle positions were never right enough of the time, etc. Too many different kinds of roads, road surfaces, temperatures, heat soak, unpredictability, etc. On the street, I pretty much just roll out from a stop at like 2k, rolling into the throttle; if I hit 6k great, if it breaks loose early I just short shift and with a bit of gingerness on the clutch going into 2nd the tires will either stick or spin only moderately as not to slow me down too much. 3rd almost always takes up with no issues as long as the road is smooth and flat.

The unpredictable nature of "limiting" the car in some way by gear, along with my penchant for smoky burnouts, has left me with a car unlimited by the ECU.

tl;dr I wanted to do a hybrid tune but could never seem to make it work right so I gave up and do burnouts instead so you'll need to ask others about it.

[torq]

I'm actually not sure what my goals are thus far, I'm treating it as more of an optimization and learning exercise.

I optimize cell networks for a living so I guess it's in my nature to squeeze out performance.

Thanks for your advice, @fortressofcomfort care to share your Ign Table -High Throttle OL (no knock)? I'm playing with that one currently and we have a similar mod level. Your VD is about 20hp higher than mine currently so I'd like to see where you're pulling those gains from. Also what kind of gas do you use?

[fortressofcomfort]

Sure, I'm currently getting good results with this (see attached).
I've found that leaving the OTS values from 2,000rpms on down from the v231 maps result in less turbo lag.

[torq]

Thanks for posting that @fortressofcomfort, it's pretty similar to mine (attached) I think I'm a degree or two more aggressive. I'm not getting any knock still so I was going to go a little bit further still when spring hits. Have some NGK one step colders I'll install then too. Can't do much now, tires spin as it's too cold for the summers.

I had a chance to put it on a real dyno and got 297whp/320wtq (also attached) which agreed pretty well with my VD.

I'm torn on next upgrade, TMIC, or CS DP+CBE, or BNR S3. Any suggestions on best bang for buck?