Gen 2 Cobb ATR discussion

[Sid3wayS]

His name is bucker and yes he is on here and well respected.

[Bannister]

well as of right now im working with his cheat sheet. Im on the fueling part of it now and this stuff is gonna take a while but im in no hurry i got nothing but time

[Bannister]

alright guys im going over the Bucker cheat sheet and coping it graph for graph and changeing everything the way he says to do it.
Now im in the timming part of the map and i started with the no knock tables just like he said and made them completely identical.
Then he says to make the knock tables 2* lower than the no knock tables but there is no graph or anything giving me the values i need to enter. Also the Max Ignition A and B tables say they should be 2* higher than the no knock table and there again is no graph or any values for me to enter.
Im new with this and tring to learn as fast and best i can without help but once agian im stuck on what to do. Any advice or help will be greatly appercaited and many thanks .
Also im sure somewhere on here there is probly the info im looking for and i just cant find it. If so please post the link or tell me where to find it and ill read some more and continue on with my work.
Thanks.

[wolly6973]

Don't know how to better explain that....

Use the values from the no knock tables and either add or subtract 2 for the other tables.

Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2

[Bannister]

So I did some more research and talked tp a buddy of mine who also has a speed 6 and got some clear insight on what I'm supposed to be doing on these tables. Thanks Guys

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by phate Yes, these are the tables you need to use to run max timing at normal BAT's, then pull timing with increasing BAT's. You can modify either the multiplier or the "actual" table. They are used in conjunction with each other, so the end result can be had either way. Edit: they work well, but if I remember correctly, actual operating temp of 190° is an interpolated region, so you need to do some math from there.

Clint, when you were maxing the k04 on your ms3, and running e85... did your car report KR @ the intersection of the BAT vs. ECT ignition table?

That is, if that table is touched and there are values to be used if that event happens... does the ecu pull the timing or does it report as kr and pull timing?

[phate]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Clint, when you were maxing the k04 on your ms3, and running e85... did your car report KR @ the intersection of the BAT vs. ECT ignition table? That is, if that table is touched and there are values to be used if that event happens... does the ecu pull the timing or does it report as kr and pull timing?

The ecu pulls timing, but does not report it as kr. Meaning you just run lower than commanded values in data logs.

Is that what you're asking?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by phate The ecu pulls timing, but does not report it as kr. Meaning you just run lower than commanded values in data logs. Is that what you're asking?

Exactly. Thank you.

[BAT-man]

Does anyone know wtf is up with these random ass values in the OTS Ign Low Octane Reduction map? It seems like I should normalize the cells circled in red to match/blend with the ones around them, would you guys agree?

EDIT 2/'14: Well, I smoothed those out in my iterations, it actually helped me rid some random KR's here and there (lower RPM). This kind of thing goes to show that sometimes even good tuners (COBB) don't QC everything they release. There is absolutely no reason for those odd values in that table.

[Mikey45024]

Okay so this is my first post, please bare with me, my mod's are as follows right now- Full 3 inch tbe (corksport) Intake/Tip (Corksport) Autotech HPFP, others are Cfm Rmm, Stop tech Rotors, Hawk hps brakes. And of course tuning with a cobb Ap V2. So what i'm trying to do is based on my engine mods i should be running stage 2+Sf+Tih 93 (pump gas) i assume that is. So my question is in the Access Tuner race setup i looked thru and would like to know how would i setup the ffs (flat foot Shifting), Lc (launch control), (Redline) From the access tuner race, to the a.p and still run the same stage 2 map? Can anyone help please? Sorry for the long paragraph hope i didn't miss anything.

[Mikey45024]

Scratch that i figured it out myself

[Fonsi]

Can someone explain me the Boost Comp- Table? I know, what this table affects, but why is both the x and y axis Engine RPM? The vertical values seem to be always equal.

[Fonsi]

Can someone explain me the Boost Comp- Table? I know, what this table affects, but why is both the x and y axis Engine RPM? The vertical values seem to be always equal.

[ASHMS3]

I thought that table used to either be a one liner or reference pedal position. I don't use it though. I use load by gear tables to limit torque.

Using bad grammar from my cell phone.

[project86]

Alright.. did some searching and then came here. I just got my AP yesterday. Im currently running the stage 1+ 93 octane map. Im not having an issues. But I would like to clear the codes i have U0140 and P0403. I just want to make sure im understanding this correctly before i do it and accidentally mess something up.

If i understand correctly.. I need to save the map i want to edit from AP Manager and then load it into ATR. After that i can open up the toggle menu and uncheck the DTCs im getting and then save the map again. Once that is done i should be able to reflash the ECU and the codes should be gone correct?

[ASHMS3]

Yes, but have you looked up what they are for to make sure they arent a legit problem?

Using bad grammar from my cell phone.

[project86]

Originally Posted by ASHMS3 Yes, but have you looked up what they are for to make sure they arent a legit problem? Using bad grammar from my cell phone.

Yeah I looked them up. One is for EGR which I deleted with the Damond kit (P0140?) and the other I can't remember but it seemed that it was related to disconnecting SWAS.

[ASHMS3]

Cool, yeah as long as you've verified that they are codes you are expecting to get, then you have the right idea of how to disable them.

[BAT-man]

Maybe this should be its own thread but....
This is somewhat related... so under FFS (similar to LC), when you are out of gear and rev the engine, it will go to that FFS ceiling and lightly bounce off the pre-set FFS RPM value (say 5,700).. and same thing with LC, with clutch and throttle down, it will bounce say around 2,700 or whatever you set it to. I see no KR happening there, the needle just bounces, the engine doesn't seem strained.

On the other hand, when I am winding out a gear (any gear) and happen to hit the rev limiter (set to 6,500, conservatively), it's a much harsher/louder jerk, and there is KR recorded anywhere between 2.5 to 10+ on the logs.

It almost feels like the FFS/LC rev limiter is ignition based and the real [red-line] RPM rev limiter is an actual fuel cut (KR would be explained by extreme lean condition under boost). Does this sound right? If so, wouldn't it be a million times better/safer to have the redline RPM rev limiter be ignition based as well? Most modern cars switched to that method, it seems it would be a very easy thing to do with the COBB AP.

[phate]

They're both fuel cut with Cobb/ATR. Ignition cut looks something like this:

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

Fuel cut while driving just feels harsh because the entire car and drivetrain responds and that is what you feel. There's no feel to it when the car is in neutral with FFS or LC.



Ignition cut, depending on how it's set up, can feel either soft (not a lot of timing pulled) or harsh (lots pulled). Pulling a few degrees for LC/FFS to keep boost up makes EGT's soar momentarily. That's fine if you don't do it for more than a couple seconds. In a racing situation (not straight lines), it is sometimes more advantageous to bang limiter for a couple seconds than shift - meaning it's likely safer to pull fuel rather than risk burning a valve with pulled timing.


TLDR - Learn to drive, seach noob.

[BAT-man]

My understanding is that there is a difference between ignition retard (typically used for LC/FFS/anti-lag systems) and ignition cut (used for regular rev limiting on most modern cars). I think you are referring to ignition retard in the above examples, when some or a lot of timing is pulled to limit RPM (and/or keep boost up) for the purpose of launching/shifting.

Ignition cut rev limiters don't pull a few or a lot of degrees (or at least they're not supposed to) when preventing over revving, they literally cut all spark for a split second and resume regular timing when RPMs drop to an acceptable limit. This is the safest way to limit RPM - no overheating (like timing retard/pull that you're referring to) and no pinging (overly lean due to all fuel being pulled). It actually sounds extremely soft, as there is no explosion in the cylinder when the ignition is cut, and if the exhaust is not hot, there isn't any in the DP/down the line either.

I think I get what you're saying - fuel cut (as used by the AP) will sound soft under no load (regular out of gear revving) and will be harsher under load (max rpm under boost). I'm not banging gears sitting on the limiter here, I actually wanted to see what would happen during the max RPM rev-cut condition and now that I have - I am curious if others see that type of rev-limiter-related KR. Oddly enough, I don't see it during FFS (my FFS is set to 5,700), only when I bounce of the actual red line preset in the AP. That's what made me think that LC/FFS vs. fuel-cut are different types of limiters.

I've never seen any KR when I logged without a map (I was able to monitor via Torque), but now, even though there isn't any KR say right before the limit (6450 rpm), I will see lots of it as soon as that needle bounces. I'm not sure if that's detrimental though, I know that a lot of folks, like you said, will sit on the limiter for a second in an autoX course when there is not enough time to shift... But I don't like seeing KR that high, so I am contemplating setting the rev limiter lower to say 6,300.

[phate]

No fuel injected means no fuel to burn; especially true of DI engines where there is no residual fuel in the runners. The KR you see is likely just noise.

Again, search. This has been covered multiple times over the years.