Low horse power

[ozzy610]

Took my car on to a rolling road today to get it staged 1
At standard it was 235hp and when staged 278hp .a gain of 43hp.but can someone tell me why it was so low as standard.i have no mods.got a recon turbo fitted 5 weeks ago.so at stage 1 its only 38 hp off the supposed standard car of 260.i am finding this strange.any help would be good.thanks

[Bertospeed3]

I'm confused on what you're asking. When you say standard, do you mean stock? Sounds like you're unfamiliar with drivetrain loss

[ozzy610]

Yeah I mean stock.its standard in the UK.so it would lose 25 hp over time would it.whats drivetrain loss.thanks

[Jeff23spl]

more details would be needed to give opinions

With a turbo car, it is easy to fall far away from factory conditions. Sometimes just maintenance and repairs to bring the car back to factory spec can became a power mod....

Then, you don't precise how you measured power. Vdyno need critical care to be somewhat accurate and it only work if there is no wheel spin.
If vdyno was used, 9 chances out of 10 for a bad reading to explain what you get.
Roller dyno could be more accurate but still have possible errors.

If it was in a gear lower than 4th, the stock tune limit power to reduce torque steer, (you don't get full boost out of a factory speed3 untill you reach mid of third gear....)
By removing this limitation, an OTS stage1 tune feel a lot more powerfull even before any real hp gains. So dyno is made in 4th to compare apples with apples...

Whp from a stock speed could be anywhere around 215-235 whp according to measuring tool for 263 at the crank (12-18% of drivetrain loss)
It is almost impossible to get 278 real whp with just an ots stage1 tune...IT is usually what you get with full stg2 mods....

[ozzy610]

The print out shows the stock power of 235 and max power 278.dont know if they are telling lie,s but the print out says so.

[Fstrnyou]

Every dyno calculates power differently...to some degree. So it can be difficult to compare your dyno results from Dyno A to someone else's results from Dyno B.

The main benefit of a dyno is you can compare results from mods and tuning very accurately if you use the same dyno each time.

Horsepower ratings posted by manufacturers are from an Engine Dyno, not a rolling road / chassis dyno.

[Carskick]

Drivetrain loss has to do with the loss from power going through the transmission, transaxel, wheel, brakes, etc. They all friction and mass to overcome. With FWD, plan on about a 15% loss. So If it's rated from 263HP at the factory, expect about 223HP at the wheels. Of course, dynos vary, conditions vary, and cars vary. So you'll see anywhere from 210HP to 240HP on a stock MS3 dyno.

I am confused about your situation. You say you "staged", which I assumed means you have some bolt ons, but who knows. If you have CAI, TP, TMIC, HPFP, and a good tune, you should expect to see about 280-310HP on a dyno.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by ozzy610 The print out shows the stock power of 235 and max power 278.dont know if they are telling lie,s but the print out says so.

Which exact print out are you talking about and from which equipment was it printed ? Can you provide a scan or picture of that print out to help us figure out what you are referring to?

[5doorsoffury]

Wtf is stage 1?
Drivetrain loss is 15% do the math. Stock is measured at the crank.

[ozzy610]

Stage one over here is a phase of a remap.i have tried to upload screenshot of website.thanks

[ozzy610]

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[ozzy610]

Here is the tune print out.i thought max power was 278hl but its 272hp.thepower is @engine and not rolling toad.i have no mods atall on car.is this ok.

[Jeff23spl]

did you get your car strapped on rollers to return that test ? Because the only way to really read crank hp is to get the engine out of the car and i'm sure it wasn't done.
Usually we read whp and convert it into crank thru a multiplier according to the usual drive train loss. Some dyno software do it by enterring normalised parameter, meteo data...and gear ratio data etc....

First point i did notice, the sheet say mazdaspeed6 but you have a picture of a gen2 ms3...If it is really what it say and the software calculate equivalent crank hp....the guy used drivetrain loss value and gear ratio of a 6 to calculate results for a 3, it isn't not good....Sometimes they just fit the car rpm with dyno rpm without messing with transmission ratio but accuracy take another drop...

Like other said, measuring unit vary a lot from 1 dyno to another one. The thing that matter is before and after mods....

There few fail in this but the 235 look more like whp but rising it up to 272whp with just a tune (gain of 37 (15.7%) Without parts is a huge gain....And sound to me a bit optimistic but i may be wrong.
Have you feel a 15% more power after tune ?

[ozzy610]

The car was strapped down on a roller.would there be a difference with the 6 and 3 are they not the same engine.i know the 6 is 4 wheel drive.the car feels quick in first second and third but normal in the other 3.traction light comes on as I take it it trying to spin the wheels..

[Pu Manchu]

Originally Posted by ozzy610 The car was strapped down on a roller.would there be a difference with the 6 and 3 are they not the same engine.i know the 6 is 4 wheel drive.the car feels quick in first second and third but normal in the other 3.traction light comes on as I take it it trying to spin the wheels..

sounds like your car works the street about as well as you work a keyboard.

[Fstrnyou]

All joking and poking aside, it's kinda nice to see that tune isn't a torque monster in the ZZB zone. Peak TQ at 4k is pretty good.

Although, they start the dyno pull below 2k......cray.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by ozzy610 The car was strapped down on a roller.would there be a difference with the 6 and 3 are they not the same engine.i know the 6 is 4 wheel drive.the car feels quick in first second and third but normal in the other 3.traction light comes on as I take it it trying to spin the wheels..

NO Again, roller dyno cannot measure crank horsepower. It can only read the remaining power at the wheels and because the 6 need to propel more parts, it has a lot more loss.
Power remaining at the wheel is lower for the same crank power on both car.
Or a 6 would need more crank power to follow a 3 on a roll race....

''the car feels quick in first second and third but normal in the other 3.''
This is what i was telling you, that feeling is the removal of factory power reduction in low gears, if you would really got 37whp/38wtq gain with that tune, you would feel it in 4-5-6 gears also...

[Fstrnyou]

But those stock dyno numbers look more like a 4th gear pull. It's highly unlikely the stock dyno chart was done in 3rd gear where there is reduced power. It looks like full power stock numbers...meaning it had to be done in 4th.

But OP says 4-6 gear "feels normal". Dyno chart says otherwise.

[Carskick]

Those gains seem really high for just tune only. You said you have a recon turbo, do you mean a reconditioned K04? Do you have anything else, such as intake or cat removal?

Just curious. With an intake, cat removal or full downpipe, and upgraded intercooler, I'd expect you'd be closer to 300HP. I'd think tune only would be around 260-270 peak, so if you are truly stock, it's looking good. That being said, dyno may be reading a little off, as you started higher than normal stock @ 235.

But to answer your original question, no your power is not low for a tune only.