Church Automotive Testing's Dynapack Dyno

[Ziggo]

Feel free to post up your before\after gains, and the dynapak is great for tuning, but don't get excited about the actual numbers. For whatever reason this dyno reads 10-15% higher than everything else out there.

My car dyno'd there at 310hp, and then consistently trapped @101mph at forum wars. We have K04 dynos @ 357hp (Bucker Tuning results), and numerous other anomalous results spread throughout the board. So realize if you post up the absolute numbers and think you really pushing he envelope, we are going to crap all over your thread. Be honest with yourself before you start waving your dyno e-peen and don't think we are singling you out. We would be just as critical about someone posting up virtual dyno results with wheelspin or a correction factor of 1.2 for anything other than laughs

Inside the line did some testing here if you are not convinced and really think a k04 speed can pull 357whp:
1997 Mazda MX-5 Miata: Kraftwerks Supercharger Kit Meets Three Dynos


I will add more links as other strange results are submitted

[Haltech]

Chinkus posted a 440hp dyno'd from them too...

[Lex]

I am personally not impressed that dynos "read" differently. There should be a standard. Because of this I don't take dyno or vdyno numbers as absolutes. I simply make sure the same dyno or vdyno settings are used to see changes to the tune or parts added/removed. If I provide people with a vdyno, it's just to compare maps on same settings.

A dyno is a tool, it's not an e-peen enhancer.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Lex I am personally not impressed that dynos "read" differently. There should be a standard. Because of this I don't take dyno or vdyno numbers as absolutes. I simply make sure the same dyno or vdyno settings are used to see changes to the tune or parts added/removed. If I provide people with a vdyno, it's just to compare maps on same settings. A dyno is a tool, it's not an e-peen enhancer.

We all don't work off the same dyno though and it becomes a tool to compare setups nationwide. It would be fundamentally dishonest for me to put a setup on that dyno and then say, if your goal is 357whp, all you need is a tune with bolt ons and a 50/50 mix of E. At some point we expect a given acceleration level for a given power level and if that car ran up against an MS3 that was tuned/dynoed at 357whp anywhere else it would get destroyed.

Understanding there is no absolute right number given by the dyno we are forced to examine results based upon its comparison to the whole, and the results from this dyno are an outlier need to be given with the warning as such. It could be that this dyno is correct and the rest all read low, but when comparing setups across the country it must be taken into account. We don't have a single car that tests out all the combinations on a single dyno, no single member has those resources so we use a tool (this forum) to share results, and the data set can become corrupted by significantly anomalous data.

[Scribbles]

Bleh, not this shit again

[Lex]

Flat road 50-100 mph times

[ms3rick]

Can we use 3rd n 4th or just 4th :x


Sent from my dizzLe using RaWr powers!

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by SoAgg159 Bleh, not this shit again

Bullshit. A standard needs to be set instead of people believing bullshit dyno numbers. It's one thing to post dyno figures, it's entirely different to actually believe they are even true when they don't come from a dynojet or mustang.

Have some fuckin integrity when dynoing... Otherwise, back those bullshit numbers up with a trap speed that equals the power the graph shows. Other platforms do read this forum... Your reputation is always being observed.

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by Lex Flat road 50-100 mph times

I use this more than anything when checking power levels

Ziggo, that is good info. That miata dyno graph shows an 11% difference between a dynojet and churchs dyno

Freekn tappin

[Lex]

Originally Posted by ms3rick Can we use 3rd n 4th or just 4th :x Sent from my dizzLe using RaWr powers!

Just use a single gear since it eliminates the problem of shifting time. 4th is nice since there is more resolution but just make sure it is safe.

[Scribbles]

Originally Posted by Haltech Bullshit. A standard needs to be set instead of people believing bullshit dyno numbers. It's one thing to post dyno figures, it's entirely different to actually believe they are even true when they don't come from a dynojet or mustang. Have some fuckin integrity when dynoing... Otherwise, back those bullshit numbers up with a trap speed that equals the power the graph shows. Other platforms do read this forum... Your reputation is always being observed.

So are we going to say that papa chinkus hasn't hit over the 4's then? It's not like he asked for them to up the CF, that's their standard. I think we can agree that churches dyno numbers are off, but by 10-15%? That seems quite abit of a difference. I know there was a stock speed6 that dyno'd around 220whp which seems...average

We all know this thread is gonna come down to whether or not he hit 4's.

[Ziggo]

He made 400s on church's dyno, but I got $100 that says I could get a BNR to throw down 400s on that dyno without any special tricks.

It is all about perspective. Just had a BNR post up a sheet of 380+ @ 21psi, my car dynoed at 310 and then trapped like it was making 275ish

For more information, that 310 was made on my gen1 with pump 91 AFRs tapering to 11.0, no meth, peak timing of 14* and boost tapering to 12psi. I, FMIC, DP & CBE

Knowing what we know now, does that seem right?

Zigatapatalka

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Ziggo He made 400s on church's dyno, but I got $100 that says I could get a BNR to throw down 400s on that dyno without any special tricks. It is all about perspective. Just had a BNR post up a sheet of 380+ @ 21psi, my car dynoed at 310 and then trapped like it was making 275ish For more information, that 310 was made on my gen1 with pump 91 AFRs tapering to 11.0, no meth, peak timing of 14* and boost tapering to 12psi. I, FMIC, DP & CBE Knowing what we know now, does that seem right? Zigatapatalka

Exactly...

I don't believe Dereks car laid down a clean 400hp number... 390s, possibly. This is not a hate train, its simply an example of being legitimate. I can fuck with smoothing numbers all day long and seek dynos that deliver high numbers. You know right off the bat its false and how could you honestly stand behind the inflated numbers with any pride?

[DONOTBUGME]

The owner told me you need to take 8% off to match a dyno jet. I did 301/335 with a boost leak they created when the hooked in to monitor the boost.

[himurax13]

Originally Posted by Ziggo He made 400s on church's dyno, but I got $100 that says I could get a BNR to throw down 400s on that dyno without any special tricks.

Hmm, well if the upcoming Dyno Day was at Church's, I could find out for you.

[dooderek]

i lol'd

[Tomas]

I love u long time

[dooderek]

Ruv*

[Ziggo]

Got the nuts to groan me but not the big man huh?

Do you not like math, or do you doubt a single thing I posted? Care to produce a single scrap of evidence that proves me wrong, or just butthurt and groaning like a 3 year old?

[dooderek]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Got the nuts to groan me but not the big man huh? Do you not like math, or do you doubt a single thing I posted? Care to produce a single scrap of evidence that proves me wrong, or just butthurt and groaning like a 3 year old?

Its the internet bro relax. Big man over the internet is lawl. Yeah dude I'm 3 years old and your crying over a button. Relax and stop worrying about other people's numbers and just chill.

Yeah I guess 215 awhp ms6 with intake is inflated too, cool story bro

[JCMS07]

Originally Posted by Ziggo My car dyno'd there at 310hp, and then consistently trapped @101mph at forum wars.

The trap speed is strange. I dyno'd 333hp/372tq at Church's and regularly trapped 111 and sometimes 112-113. With taking away 8% the number are 306hp/342tq. The dyno was back in 2010 though and they have since gotten a dynapack with updated software.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by DONOTBUGME The owner told me you need to take 8% off to match a dyno jet. I did 301/335 with a boost leak they created when the hooked in to monitor the boost.

Hint.. Afr is more important than monitoring boost.. FYI... Most gauges will lock peak boost. Dynos usually can't graph the boost properly linear to hp/tq curves... So it's always best to run a sep datalog file between runs.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Joe Isuzu Its the internet bro relax. Big man over the internet is lawl. Yeah dude I'm 3 years old and your crying over a button. Relax and stop worrying about other people's numbers and just chill. Yeah I guess 215 awhp ms6 with intake is inflated too, cool story bro

IDGAF about the groans, but if the "Big Man" is lawl and groans are just a button man up and groan all of his posts too.

If you think I am wrong prove it with supporting data. I have seen no logs or sheets of said 215whp MS6, for all we know it could have had a half dead k04, low compression, a slice of pizza in the intake or any of a thousand other issues that caused a loss of power. This isn't about your numbers it's about all the numbers. If someone looks at these forums and sees 357whp stock turbo car and nobody notes that the dyno reads high then suddenly that seems like an achievable goal. Just like 381 on a BNR@ 21 psi.

1) People typically choose setups with a power level in mind with no note about the dyno reading high, the technical information on this forum has just mislead them.

2) Power levels are important for the stock block. If there was information out that someone was running 425+ wtq for several years with no note that it was tuned on a dyno that reads high, then that power level seems safe. You go tune your car elsewhere to 425 and you have a hole in your block in less than a year. Now the technical information on this forum has just mislead someone again.

We are not academics here but if you want to provide good data and technical information which is what these forums supposed to be all about then peer review is part of the process and we should all care what "other people's numbers" are, as this contributes to the technical database of this site. If someone had a How-To up that called out the wrong torque specs I would hope someone would call them on it rather than "not worry about other peoples numbers", this is no different.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by JCMS07 The trap speed is strange. I dyno'd 333hp/372tq at Church's and regularly trapped 111 and sometimes 112-113. With taking away 8% the number are 306hp/342tq. The dyno was back in 2010 though and they have since gotten a dynapack with updated software.

I seem to remember you dynoing there with some obnoxious number with a reworked k04, thought it was 350+

My results are simply one datapoint as comparing my traps to the power will be the least favorable. With the "17s on my car was near the limiter at the top of 4th, which is a bad place to be on the stock turbo.

[JCMS07]

Originally Posted by Ziggo I seem to remember you dynoing there with some obnoxious number with a reworked k04, thought it was 350+

350+ must of been someone else. The dyno runs where with the BNR S2 and 333hp is the number I see on the dyno sheet. It does say no correction though.

[dooderek]

You do understand that people understand the fact that dynos DO read different right? Where as torque specs in san diego is the same as the tgorque spec in africa right? Your comparing a non absoulte to an aboslute? So analogy was bad but seriously. Who are you to say what someone can or cannot do?

Let's do a little math here. Someone sees a inflated number on a pak then tries to match it. Well they can't because it reads high, soooo what? Are you telling me that if he decides to push his car to the limits trying to match a higher reading dyno and blows up its our fault?

Seriously your points make no sense. So then don't mod your car then if blowing up is an issue. Go look at the big turbo stock block thread. Not everyone there is dynod on a pack either.

I understand the fail point your trying tomake. But point is you MOD a car, you INCREASE the chance of blowing no shit. So wtf is the point? People blow up stock, if you want to mod a car/achieve a goal then good go for it, but if you blow up then who's too blame? Did mazda tell you to mod? Did someone put a gun to your head and say MAKE HP OR DIE? No so stfu alreafy you sound completly stupid

[dooderek]

Oh one more thing guys, everyone delete your logs because if I flow less gs than you then ima push my car until it blows up trying to reach your gs

[snailD]

the curves baby, its all about the curves

[Haltech]

Let's try to keep this more civil. Thanks

[Lex]

Church's numbers have come into question a number of times. When we were there for the dyno day, the cars were putting down numbers that were similar to the Vdyno "Dynojet" setting that has a correction factor of 1.09.

Most people don't like to see this. The nice thing about the packs is their consistency and we saw that with all the vehicles tested and tuned there. We also saw Derek's car move considerably in power from adjusting the VVT and timing and that was the most important thing - that the dynos (which are a tool) had enough resolution to capture tuning changes.

Unless we're talking actual uncorrected Dynojets, comparing dyno numbers from one facility to another is not terribly productive. I dislike the comment: "That was on a pack man, it reads high" just as much as "I made this much on a MUSTANG - it's a heartbreaker!" Having those two statements alone indicates how much discrepancy there is between two tools that should ideally return very similar results.

Because of this I look at the merit of dynos in terms of consistency, resolution, safety, and ease of setup - especially if I'm tuning on one. If it's a dyno day it's fun to see what different cars make on the same dyno - again taking the variance from a pack to a mustang out of the equation.

For outright performance on the road, nothing really beats single gear acceleration pulls since all things come into play - from drag, to weight, to gearing.

If we're talking about blowing up - again - too many variables involved. How many times were the rods cycled, was there knock, factory tolerances, etc ... I don't know if I'd trust any dyno to tell me what is and what isn't safe. We can have statistical ballparks but some people are luckier than others while some even put down a great number and never touch the gas pedal afterwards. It can last for years that way!

[Ziggo]

Single gear pulls have their issues too, from wind direction to how flat the road is to tire size. Of course tire size plays into which car is quicker ultimately, but if I have part A and you have part B, and my tire size is different it becomes difficult to compare the parts.

I don't have any issue at all with the dynapack as a tool. Church has reasonable prices and a nice facility with a monster blower in one of the bays which is probably why we we see so many results from there. All I really wanted is a note up that this dyno reads higher than everything else we have found, and when results are posted from it, to have it acknowledged where it was measured and that it reads higher than everywhere else. Like I said before, it's all about perspective.

FYI, even the best torque wrenches on the market are only good to +/- 10% so the analogy is apt, god knows what a harbor freight one that has been dropped 10 times is accurate to.

Zigatapatalka

[dooderek]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Single gear pulls have their issues too, from wind direction to how flat the road is to tire size. Of course tire size plays into which car is quicker ultimately, but if I have part A and you have part B, and my tire size is different it becomes difficult to compare the parts. I don't have any issue at all with the dynapack as a tool. Church has reasonable prices and a nice facility with a monster blower in one of the bays which is probably why we we see so many results from there. All I really wanted is a note up that this dyno reads higher than everything else we have found, and when results are posted from it, to have it acknowledged where it was measured and that it reads higher than everywhere else. Like I said before, it's all about perspective. FYI, even the best torque wrenches on the market are only good to +/- 10% so the analogy is apt, god knows what a harbor freight one that has been dropped 10 times is accurate to. Zigatapatalka

my bad he had an intake







sorry not to side rail but 10% is lawl. you obviously never heard of METCAL or dealt with any type of equipment that dealt with a high requirement of torque, where 10% can be +/- 50 ft lbs of torque. cool story bro

[dooderek]

arguing is dumb, sorry chris ill remove my groans

[Bucker]

Originally Posted by Haltech Bullshit. A standard needs to be set instead of people believing bullshit dyno numbers. It's one thing to post dyno figures, it's entirely different to actually believe they are even true when they don't come from a dynojet or mustang. Have some fuckin integrity when dynoing... Otherwise, back those bullshit numbers up with a trap speed that equals the power the graph shows. Other platforms do read this forum... Your reputation is always being observed.

This is the reason that I provided uncorrected numbers when a correction factor would have been significantly in my favor due to heat, etc.

If in doubt, error on the side of being conservative. That dyno owner needs to calibrate that bitch to put it more in line with EVERYONE else in the USA.