Dyno in stock car, first 3 gears: boost limiter question

[gliding_serpent]

Mazdaspeed3 Dyno Comparisons

Refer to the dyno of post #2 .

For some time i have been searching for dyno runs for a stock 2010 in the first 3 gears to determine the power that is allowed by the ecu in those gears (in a straight line). This 2007 presumably stock dyno was the best i could find.

This is just for curiosity. Yes i know about the COB access port. I also know steering lock influences things further.

Anyone else have stock dynos in the first 3 gears, especially for the gen 2 cars. Ideally i want gen 1 and 2 with and without ecu limiter to compare how the power was limited. Seems to be a mystery, with many automotive reviewers reporting incorrectly which gears have power limitation between the gens (dogma is 1st and second limited in gen 1, 1-3 in gen two.) i want to know the degree of limitation for informations sake.

[2011speed]

Who cares

[Fatguy729]

Anyone who is capable of reading these forums knows that it's limited by calculated load. GTFO with this shit.

[gliding_serpent]

Wow.

[texasboy21]

There is nothing wrong for wanting some quantifiable evidence. Dont be a heard of sheep..

Yall need to donate.

[speedfreak44]

This is over a year old?

For the record I did dyno pulls on a basically stock car in 3rd and 4th and there was negligible difference. Probably had to do more with heat soak than power limiting in the ecu

[gliding_serpent]

Wow, forgot about this place some time ago, but i was subscribed so just got an email.

Thanks for the last two replies. It is tough to not say something harsh about the first two replies, but what I will say is that such responses do little to foster a thriving forum. Given the lack of activity in this section, I think the "who cares, GTFO" attitude prevailed and I was not the only one to move on.

It is too bad. The speed3 is a great car. Mine in stock form (i pull out the two kids seats) has become a great track weapon. I make a habit of running down cars that should be far faster (like modern 911's). The only dowside is the car being REALLY hard on front tires. The car has opened many eyes, and has given me many good stories and memories at the track. This year I will be using Michelin SPort Cup tires and it should scream.

Whatever the power in the first few gears, i did not need it in the past as the car was traction limited, not power limited, coming out of low speed turns. It will be interesting to see how the sticky sport cups change the game.

This year i will be switching between this car and a rwd/rear engine hotrodded air cooled 911. Should be a fun contrast in opposite handeling characteristics.

[sheston]

I used logs in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to see what load spun the tires. Then hybrid tuned to be just above that. Helps control traction.....

[gliding_serpent]

Interesting idea. Did your calculations account for steering lock? My car is pretty basic, so I used my right foot to control power output/traction (i.e. Understeer on corner exit). It worked much better with all the driving nannies off.

[BlackFlag]

Originally Posted by gliding_serpent Wow, forgot about this place some time ago, but i was subscribed so just got an email. Thanks for the last two replies. It is tough to not say something harsh about the first two replies, but what I will say is that such responses do little to foster a thriving forum. Given the lack of activity in this section, I think the "who cares, GTFO" attitude prevailed and I was not the only one to move on. It is too bad. The speed3 is a great car. Mine in stock form (i pull out the two kids seats) has become a great track weapon. I make a habit of running down cars that should be far faster (like modern 911's). The only dowside is the car being REALLY hard on front tires. The car has opened many eyes, and has given me many good stories and memories at the track. This year I will be using Michelin SPort Cup tires and it should scream. Whatever the power in the first few gears, i did not need it in the past as the car was traction limited, not power limited, coming out of low speed turns. It will be interesting to see how the sticky sport cups change the game. This year i will be switching between this car and a rwd/rear engine hotrodded air cooled 911. Should be a fun contrast in opposite handeling characteristics.

That is why you clip the light blue wire in the steering column to disable it...
Seems like you didn't care to look for a cure to your issue before dismissing the website.

[gliding_serpent]

I found that mod. But it was not my question. There are many ways to bypass the system, i did my homework on that too. I even found the answer to my question for gen 1 cars (see link in post 1). Besides, it was not even a problem in my eyes as my cure was in my right foot, it took a few laps to get right. I was just curious how much the power was limited in each gear.

After running into resistance to the question (people just told me to disable it), i hoped the dyno folks might have some actual data.

I eventually contacted cobb and learned a lot.

[speedfreak44]

Originally Posted by gliding_serpent Interesting idea. Did your calculations account for steering lock? My car is pretty basic, so I used my right foot to control power output/traction (i.e. Understeer on corner exit). It worked much better with all the driving nannies off.

Are we still talking about a speed 3? If so, I am pretty certain the computer is still in complete control without you actually modifying all signals running to it or switching to a blow through carb setup and switching to a different steering setup. I hate to break it to you but this is not a 1950 hot rod. This car is quite computer controlled and it is doin a hell of a lot more to your driving experience than you give it credit.

[BlackFlag]

My apologies, I misread your actual intentions!

[gliding_serpent]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 Are we still talking about a speed 3? If so, I am pretty certain the computer is still in complete control without you actually modifying all signals running to it or switching to a blow through carb setup and switching to a different steering setup. I hate to break it to you but this is not a 1950 hot rod.

Wait a minute here, my 2010 speed3 is Not a carbed 1950's hotrod? The salesman TOTALLY lied to me then!!! ;-)

Yes, i know the computer still limits the power in the low gears (again, all i was interested in knowing was roughly how much). My "right foot" comment alludes to the fact that even in the stock car, with the electronic nannies off (the ones the factory lets you disable on the dash), coming out of tight turns, the car is traction limited (using michelin super sport 225/40/18 tires) as opposed to power limited... even with the computer limiting power in low gears. Thus it under-steers/pushes coming out of tight turns if you are too hard on the throttle. My solution was... Less throttle, and more progressive throttle. No computers needed there, but the LSD helps for sure.

Now, sport cups are in a different league of traction, so it will be interesting to see if they shift the car to being more power limited than grip limited in tight turns. Could make me finally opt to bypass the system.

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 This car is quite computer controlled and it is doin a hell of a lot more to your driving experience than you give it credit.

For sure. Last year I talked about how much better that driving experience (and precision) was when you disabled the steering assist, TCS, and stability control. Less cooks in the kitchen is better. It went from a fast but frustrating car to drive, to a faster and much better handling car. It has a lot of accessible speed and handing and is quite forgiving. gen2 speed3 Track impressions

[speedfreak44]

You may feel that way regarding your throttle foot but you really need to take a ride in a tuned speed. The power delivery is much more linear and easier to control vs the stock ecu settings. The point you are missing here is that with a tune you can tell the computer how much boost and when to bring it in. You can set up the throttle table to give you a linear pull. The progressive ramp up is what causes you to spin the tires. If the throttle table is tuned correctly you can actually put more power down than with the stock settings without spinning.

[gliding_serpent]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 You may feel that way regarding your throttle foot but you really need to take a ride in a tuned speed. The power delivery is much more linear and easier to control vs the stock ecu settings. The point you are missing here is that with a tune you can tell the computer how much boost and when to bring it in. You can set up the throttle table to give you a linear pull. The progressive ramp up is what causes you to spin the tires. If the throttle table is tuned correctly you can actually put more power down than with the stock settings without spinning.

Hey I totally get that. I can also see custom throttle maps/boost control being increasingly key as you increase power output. Too much power and you just push off the track.

My point is that the right foot also acts as a poor mans throttle table/map of sorts. I just learned to work with the stock system, and make the best of it. The stock setup produces a lot of torque low in the rpm's, so I just took it a touch easy with my right foot coming out of hairpins to avoid power under-steer. Enough throttle to push the tires to the edge of adhesion (maximizing acceleration and turning), but not so much as to make the car push/under-steer. It was not a "mash the throttle to the floor" and go fast kind of car (like a GT-R).

In power limited rwd/AWD cars I am hard on the throttle as close to apex as possible. The Speed 3's impressive power down low, combined with fwd limitations for steering and power delivery, took more finesse... which made it REALLY fun to drive. I found the stock traction/stability control far too restrictive to power when punching out of tight corners, thus I much preferred turning the nannies off and letting my foot and the LSD do the work. I do not know how much the stock ECU limited my total low gear power, but it was not enough to prevent power under steer if I was too ham-footed. I thank Mazda for that, as it shows they have some confidence in their users.

Fun car to drive. I am getting excited for the new season. I think there will be another Speed3 with a Cobb AP and sticky rubber, so I hope to see how my stock car compares to him.