Just finished my tune, low numbers?

[StevenW]

Just finished my tune and I feel like these numbers are a little low. What do you guys think? I remember I was getting all sorts of knock with more advanced timing, so it was cut down to 9 degrees.

screenSHU - The fastest screen capture ever.


Mods:
JBR 3in. intake
CNT Catted TBE
1 step colder plugs
stock TMIC
HPFP

[Scare Dem]

Do you have a 4th gear VD you can post? Looks like you had some traction issues in the VD you posted.

[StevenW]

Here's a 4th gear VD graph:

screenSHU - The fastest screen capture ever.


Not sure if my clutch slipped during that log, but its why my initial VD post was a 3rd gear pull.

Also I assume my smoothing and CF is correct? I just copied what I read lol

[speedfreak44]

I am assuming 91 octane? I don't really think it looks terrible

[ms6mil]

Originally Posted by StevenW Just finished my tune and I feel like these numbers are a little low. What do you guys think? I remember I was getting all sorts of knock with more advanced timing, so it was cut down to 9 degrees. screenSHU - The fastest screen capture ever. Mods: JBR 3in. intake CNT Catted TBE 1 step colder plugs stock TMIC

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 I am assuming 91 octane? I don't really think it looks terrible

91, stock TMIC and stock HPFP internals I presume... doesn't look bad at all.

OP what were you expecting to see?

[ANITIX87]

I'm surprised you got knock with this little timing. Justin has me at 10 degrees at 6K, 13 degrees at 7K, and my car is totally knock-free (also step-colder plugs, but I have upgraded TMIC which will help a little).

vDyno shows me at 308/328 in 4th gear with the mods listed in my signature. Are you self-tuning? The pro guys here really are spectacular. When i self-tuned, I was at ~255 WHP, just the professional tune got me almost 20% more power.

TIS

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by ms6mil 91, stock TMIC and stock HPFP internals I presume... doesn't look bad at all. OP what were you expecting to see?

Sorry, HPFP upgraded was well I also updated the OP to reflect that. I was looking for a tad closer to 300 hp I think I'd be happy at 280, not so much at the 260 or so it hovers around at now.

Originally Posted by ANITIX87 I'm surprised you got knock with this little timing. Justin has me at 10 degrees at 6K, 13 degrees at 7K, and my car is totally knock-free (also step-colder plugs, but I have upgraded TMIC which will help a little). vDyno shows me at 308/328 in 4th gear with the mods listed in my signature. Are you self-tuning? The pro guys here really are spectacular. When i self-tuned, I was at ~255 WHP, just the professional tune got me almost 20% more power. TIS

This was actually tuned by Purple Drank.

[Kor3y101]

You don't really need a step colder plug for those mods, the K04 is much happier running stock heat range. Also, what octane fuel are you running? If it is a low quality, try getting something a bit better as it will help with KR, which obviously inturn will let you run higher boost/timing.

But for those mods, your numbers seem to be close to what they should be, that TMIC will be the biggest bottleneck in your intake tract now, upgrading to a bigger one will let your car breathe easier, which should net you a few more ponies.

PS, to get to 300 on the K04, you really need to push it to the edge of its efficiency range and throw meth or E at it to keep it happy. Talk with your tuner and express how you feel and see if there's anything else you can do.

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by Kor3y101 You don't really need a step colder plug for those mods, the K04 is much happier running stock heat range. Also, what octane fuel are you running? If it is a low quality, try getting something a bit better as it will help with KR, which obviously inturn will let you run higher boost/timing. But for those mods, your numbers seem to be close to what they should be, that TMIC will be the biggest bottleneck in your intake tract now, upgrading to a bigger one will let your car breathe easier, which should net you a few more ponies. PS, to get to 300 on the K04, you really need to push it to the edge of its efficiency range and throw meth or E at it to keep it happy. Talk with your tuner and express how you feel and see if there's anything else you can do.

Hrmm. I was thinking about a better TMIC but some of the reading I was doing last night suggested that a IC wouldn't provide any noticeable gain in HP. Also I only got the step colder plugs as they were recommended by PD during my tuning.

[speedfreak44]

Have you checked for any boost leaks? Is the car burning any oil? Hows the compression? Depending on the shape of the motor you may be losing power there. My sots 93 map put me around 280whp 290wtq in 88* temps so if it was tuned down a little for 91 I would probably be in the 270s but I have a tmic upgrade so take that away and lets say low 270 into the 260s whp. You aren't far off.

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 Have you checked for any boost leaks? Is the car burning any oil? Hows the compression? Depending on the shape of the motor you may be losing power there. My sots 93 map put me around 280whp 290wtq in 88* temps so if it was tuned down a little for 91 I would probably be in the 270s but I have a tmic upgrade so take that away and lets say low 270 into the 260s whp. You aren't far off.

I was getting dips in AFR that was from a small boost leak in the IC hoses but was fixed a while ago. I don't have compression numbers but I have no real reason to do so as it only has 34k miles on it and good UOA's. Never any manual over rev or anything at the track like that. Does a better TMIC actually get some decent increases? Like I said above, everything I've read say they're little to none.

[speedfreak44]

Only other thing I can suggest is posting a datalog or the tune for review. The timing is definitely a little on the low side

[StevenW]

Here are the 2 datalogs that were used in the VD's above. Log 24 is the last 4th gear log I took that was given the thumbs up for completed tune, and 36 is the 3rd gear log in the OP I took last night.

[speedfreak44]

Your timing is quite low and I see no signs of KR anywhere. When you pushed into 10+ advance you started getting KR? I wonder if you had a bad batch of fuel

[acousticdefbot]

that timing is crazy conservative. fuel may be your limitation. i have similar mods, but an aftermarket tmic. here's the timing i was running on pump gas (93). all about dat fuel.

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 Your timing is quite low and I see no signs of KR anywhere. When you pushed into 10+ advance you started getting KR? I wonder if you had a bad batch of fuel

Ryan and I were talking about the same thing. We had a few instances of possible bad fuel but since that I've been filling up at the same Chevron and Sams Club station since to try to keep things consistent. I think he ended up pulling timing to err on the side of caution.

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by acousticdefbot that timing is crazy conservative. fuel may be your limitation. i have similar mods, but an aftermarket tmic. here's the timing i was running on pump gas (93). all about dat fuel.

Wow, I never really realized how conservative it was until I put your log side by side. California does have some pretty mehh 91. Too bad there aren't any e85 stations near by.

[acousticdefbot]

that means it's time for some:



your numbers honestly aren't bad tho for what you're running.

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by acousticdefbot that means it's time for some: your numbers honestly aren't bad tho for what you're running.

LOL love the pic. Not gonna lie, it's pretty tempting. I need to do more reading though to figure it all out.

[Kor3y101]

Meth, the mother of all that is holy for a TMIC Speed.

But seriously, your fuel is the issue here as said by everyone else.
A meth kit may seem very daunting, but honestly, it is very easy to install and get working. And it's always great to see your BATS drop below the ambient temperature, haha.
Speak to Ryan, and see if he can up your timing.

[StevenW]

Three quick questions:

1. If I run meth is there any benefit to a better tmic?
2. How often do you have to refil your tank?
3. What happens if you forget to fill your tank lol

[Kor3y101]

1; yes, a bigger TMIC will still help with flow, and still help for situations where meth is not used. Still advisable to get a bigger IC.

2; I refill my tank probably once every 8 days (3qt tank), however I get on it quite a lot, this is a case by case question really, how often do you buy a carton of milk? Depends how much you drink

3; Depends how you tune for Meth. I am currently not tuned for it, which means I am using it purely for cooling and an added octane booster. If I run out, I will see my BATS not drop, however t will not ruin anything, I just need to be conscious. You can always add a fail safe or sensor to tell you when it's empty. But I just check it every 3-4 days depending again, on how much I get on it.

[speedfreak44]

I think you should just skip upgrading the tmic and do the meth. I think your k04 will be a problem before the intercooler once meth is added to the equation.

[Kor3y101]

Originally Posted by speedfreak44 I think you should just skip upgrading the tmic and do the meth. I think your k04 will be a problem before the intercooler once meth is added to the equation.

There is truth in that, I agree. But that is the normal progression of mods. And just my preference and the way I went, whether that is the best or not is debatable. But meth is definitely the end result we all want.

[Awal]

Where I live, on 91 or 94 octane (Chevron) with no tune (and no data-logger) the CS TMIC swap didn't necessarily net me any more HP, but with my car either cold or hot pulled almost all the way to redline (6500 rpm). Before I installed the TMIC, with 2 years of experience with the engine stock, the power ALWAYS fell off drastically @ 5500-5800rpm.

Having said that, with all I've read, a meth kit on the stock TMIC is going to net you a bigger bang for your buck (there's one for sale in the Genpu section right now) on the dyno/Vdyno. But something should be said for the consistency of a hard part that has zero operating costs and is super easy to install (there's a CPe TMIC for sale in the Genpu section aswell). They both cost about the same initially, but I don't know how much Meth costs per gallon.

I am definitely going to go with meth later to safely surpass my initial HP/TQ goals on the stock turbo and beyond.

[speedfreak44]

Here are your options...

Meth is big gain and consistent power. Be mindful the pump can fail, you need to fill the tank, many possible connection issues plus tuning.

Tmic is not as consistent on power, will net less power substantially, but does not move and shouldn't cause any issues ever. Bolt on and forget


So that said what are you really wanting from the car? Your current power level isn't terrible.

[Kor3y101]

Originally Posted by Awal Where I live, on 91 or 94 octane (Chevron) with no tune (and no data-logger) the CS TMIC swap didn't necessarily net me any more HP, but with my car either cold or hot pulled almost all the way to redline (6500 rpm). Before I installed the TMIC, with 2 years of experience with the engine stock, the power ALWAYS fell off drastically @ 5500-5800rpm. Having said that, with all I've read, a meth kit on the stock TMIC is going to net you a bigger bang for your buck (there's one for sale in the Genpu section right now) on the dyno/Vdyno. But something should be said for the consistency of a hard part that has zero operating costs and is super easy to install (there's a CPe TMIC for sale in the Genpu section aswell). They both cost about the same initially, but I don't know how much Meth costs per gallon. I am definitely going to go with meth later to safely surpass my initial HP/TQ goals on the stock turbo and beyond.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Honestly, meth and an upgraded TMIC is the way to go. More consistent power, more flow. But OP has more then enough information now to make his decision.

[StevenW]

Thanks to everyone for the help. To be honest meth was never in the cards when I first began. I think I'll shoot for the tmic and later down the road add meth as more of a precaution (lots of hard track days in summer). I was never really going for a ton of power, but was just a little disappointed with the numbers VD gave me. Now I have to decide if I want to grab that cpe in the genpu for sale section or finally get that glock I've been eyein lol.

[acousticdefbot]

keep in mind that while the vdyno is awesome, it's not 100% accurate. i think the most important thing when tuning and not going for big power are the new driving characteristics of the car. how it performs down low, up high, the power delivery, etc. if you are satisfied with that, then it was a worthwhile investment.

[mokidii]

Its the shitty cali gas
My car is the same way even with a front mount, you should try some e85. I see you're in eastvale, theres a station by the ontario airport and as you can see it makes a HUGE difference!!

[Awal]

As acoustic mentioned directly above ^ it's not about having the highest peak HP/TQ numbers around, it's more about using the same consistent form of measurement for all tuning just so that you can compare to an established baseline.

Most importantly, if you aren't using this as a track car (1/4 mile or RRacing/AutoX) and using it as a daily driver 90%+ then it's really more about getting all that power in a usable way. Dyno queens are rarely good DDers, even if you AutoX every weekend all year round, and DD it 5 days a week, if I was in your shoes I'd be more focused on RELIABLE + USABLE power (tires/susp to get that power to the ground) than peak power @ high RPMs.

One of the best things about tuning for the stock K04 or CS turbo/BNRs3 is that it allows you to get a shit ton of torque available @ late 2k to 3k rpm, which makes DDing a smooth, non-eventful, no down-shifting process. Even with an every Friday (during summer) drag racing, and wkend AutoXing, I still spend way more time commuting and doing road trips, and while you may suffer a tad in any racing application, most drivers will appreciate the lack of lag in everyday DD situations. Even on back roads there are not many instances where fully redlining your car is going to do much for you.

Smooth driving characteristics as acoustic mentioned are > than at the limit power for 5% or less of your behind the wheel time. I'd much rather have most of my TQ come on around 3k rpm than have 2x the HP come on at 6500 rpm for any car that I actually have plates on.

[Yanahdi]

Originally Posted by StevenW Three quick questions: 1. If I run meth is there any benefit to a better tmic? 2. How often do you have to refil your tank? 3. What happens if you forget to fill your tank lol

Better TMIC means better flow, meth injection does all the heavy lifting as far as cooling is concerned. Flow is really your concern in this area.

Filling your tank depends on what size nozzle you run, your set points for injection(boost, maf volt, or map volt depending on the kit), and how often you hit those setpoints.

If you forget to fill the tank or run dry you'll see high bats (derp) and leaner afr since the methanol functions as auxiliary fueling if it's tuned that way, and it should be really.

Don't forget though that methanol even in a 50/50 dilution cleans pretty well although the cooling factor is somewhat diminished.

Ask around at race shops and price out before you buy. Much cheaper that way than buying pre mix.

I recommend if you get a kit, start with DI/filtered water to deal with leaks and get a feel for consumption. Then step up to a mix and finally 100% meth if you want.

I started with 50/50 but I got tired of mixing and I wasn't blowing through it as much as I feared.

I'm using a snow #5 nozzle and I top off about every 3 days or so.

NEVER WAIT FOR AN EMPTY TANK, check and top off as needed.

As far as tune numbers, I personally don't really care as they're just bragging rights. A stronger mid range and consistent powerband is the name of the game in my book. Otherwise I'd have bought another Honda. Lol



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[eliwwjd]

Hey man

Sorry to hear you aren't quite satisfied. I just recently got done with tuning also and had to consider on goig to a different dyno because numbers were coming out low compared to how I was feeling the car.
Here are my vd sheets from Justin, yours are not far, considering what you have and that I have a ets tmic upgrade. The only difference is that Justin send me the 3rd gear logs on VD.Like everyone else has stated, gas quality is very important. There are some times when I fill the gas tank, that I don't feel the car running the same way as before I filled up the tank and that's when I know gas batch was not quite the best.
Get a tmic upgrade and a racepipe and re-tune with who ever you like. If it was me I would go with Justin or Rob Finkle.

Elizer.PNG

[Gr8Speed]

1. Log in 4th because it is 1:1
2. Something is whack as fuck. Are you logging on a twisty mountain?
3. TMIC and meth or FMIC. You can also use an e85 mix, as the ignition temps will be lower and BAT are not as big an issue. TMIC/FMIC will help tremendously with flow and the meth/e85 will cool combustion temps.

[StevenW]

Sorry I haven't replied to this thread in forever, but thanks for the responses. I think i'll start looking into meth more seriously after summer (currently working a lot). I've also been noticing I'm losing alot of power in first. I have some shitty DD tires on and know for a fact I could spin them at WOT from a slow 5mph roll and now they barely chirp into 2nd. I'll roll in 1st, gun it, and around 4k it'll stop pulling as hard and not only a little but by a huge noticeable amount. I'll log it and post it up when I get a chance.

[g00s3y]

OP should just read some more and tune himself. No need to spend ~$200 on a "pro-tune" for a tiny k04, when anyone can easily learn how to tune that themselves. It's a much more rewarding experience. And no where near as hard as people make it out to be. If they tell you different, it's only because they don't understand it themselves.

[Dralphy]

Originally Posted by g00s3y OP should just read some more and tune himself. No need to spend ~$200 on a "pro-tune" for a tiny k04, when anyone can easily learn how to tune that themselves. It's a much more rewarding experience. And no where near as hard as people make it out to be. If they tell you different, it's only because they don't understand it themselves.

Some people don't wish to learn.

Time may be a factor.
Safety may be a factor.
Laziness may be a factor.

That's why these tuners are here. To get a decent tune for the baby k04 with having much less worry about if they did something wrong that could grenade their motor. Not saying it's not possible to do so with a pro-tune, but it's much less likely.

[MD1032]

I agree that tuning a K04 is not rocket science. However, learning to tune is definitely a serious time investment. Personally, I do not think I would do it if I did not enjoy it, but it is a lot of fun for me.

I think the intercooler and meth need to go hand in hand for OP. The stock TMIC is a huge piece of garbage that flows well enough but doesn't cool shit.

[Awal]

Originally Posted by StevenW Sorry I haven't replied to this thread in forever, but thanks for the responses. I think i'll start looking into meth more seriously after summer (currently working a lot). I've also been noticing I'm losing alot of power in first. I have some shitty DD tires on and know for a fact I could spin them at WOT from a slow 5mph roll and now they barely chirp into 2nd. I'll roll in 1st, gun it, and around 4k it'll stop pulling as hard and not only a little but by a huge noticeable amount. I'll log it and post it up when I get a chance.

Your K04 just might be on it's way out if you're feeling such a substantial loss in power. Also, it's time to check your compression (which will also give u a look at your plugs), and for any boost/vacuum leaks.

I also don't know how your tires were at the start of this all, but it might just be that you've worn them down to a point where they give you more dry weather traction. You can shave a DOT legal street tire into pretty much a full slick with the proper tools or frequent rotation plus time/wear. Also, not sure when you started this thread exactly, but maybe the higher summer temps are keeping your tires closer to the optimal warmth for traction, and u might be losing some power to higher BATs.

At this point, start checking some of these things. I hope you can sort it out.

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by Dralphy Some people don't wish to learn. Time may be a factor. Safety may be a factor. Laziness may be a factor. That's why these tuners are here. To get a decent tune for the baby k04 with having much less worry about if they did something wrong that could grenade their motor. Not saying it's not possible to do so with a pro-tune, but it's much less likely.

Except the OP has already shown he wants to tune himself. Instead of help, people chime in with the regular "get a pro tune" just because they can't do it, for whatever reason they have. How does that help someone who is trying to do it themselves? Unless you have the reading skills of Floyd Mayweather, it's not hard to understand ATR and learn how to tune your car using it.

People invest 10-20k just on the car, another 1k at least on internals/ap and whatever other mods they want, but can't find a little time to sit down and understand their 5 figure investment and how to get the most out of it?

Just my opinion.