Direct meth injection help

[blake0521]

Ok so long story short I almost bought a new car but decided to go all in on my speed 3. Game plan is a pte5858 turbo kit, meth kit and so on. This brings me to my question, where are all of the direct meth injection info! I have only found info on pre tb set ups. My game plan was to pnp my intake mani and running one nozzle on my cold pipe and 4 small ones straight into my intake mani. I know that is rather excessive for a 500whp build but I want to make sure each cylinder gets the same amount of meth. The reason for the pre tb nozzle would be cooling the charge and the direct port nozzles would be for fueling. Is that a good plan or am I being paranoid? Also is it worth a jmf mani over an stock pnp mani to get equal air flow? It looks like the pnp manis have pretty even flow compared to the stock mani so I should be good. I just want to make sure the motor is getting the same air flow and meth across the board.

[mghtymouse380]

@tastysi2004; He has it here in VA. He can help you out.

[tastysi2004]

@blake0521;
if you want each cylinder to get the same amount of meth... do not put an extra one prethrottle.
its just going back wards from your original goal.
just make sure you have big enough injectors for the power goals that you are looking for.
i currently have 4 do5 nozzles and a 300psi pump with 2 check valves and a solenoid.
make sure they are quality check valves or else you'll have the vacuum from the engine suck in extra meth, back fire and one of two cylinders needing meth when the lines are empty.
i also got a maf controlled unit so i dont have the risk of cutting the boost line or crimping it when routing it when trying to bring it inside the car(DO).
another thing, big enough tank. while tuning, i probably go through 5 gallons of meth in less than a week. but with daily driving, unless higher than normal boost is concerned... none is used. 2.5 gallons is what i have. i may move to a bigger one but not anytime soon.
quality lines and/or fittings.
if you're going all out, get npt fittings and stainless steel lines.
and junk the push to fittings.. unless they are from expensive companies such as aquamist.
i went to fastenals and got their brass fittings... they've worked like a charm.
most of all, it comes down to your tuning.
i have ryan at purple drank tuning me.
we've been working together for quiet some time now. nothing but quality work and fastest response times than any other tuners that ive had.
hope this helps. if you have any questions... post up. @2.0t03speed;

[2.0t03speed]

You can go direct port but really pre tb or using a tb plate works just fine for reaching 500whp.
i've been using pre tb injection on my ms3 for a year now without problem. So have many other people.
Direct port meth is good you just need to use quality fittings. Because every new fitting/connection you make is another spot for a potential leak.

[blake0521]

Built motor is going to happen don't worry!

[Lex]

Don't forget the failsafe . As you rely on the meth extensively for fueling you definitely want a system that detects a failure or loss of flow.

I've worked with pretty much every kit out there and the two most complete ones are aquamist and coolingmist in terms of reliable failsafes. This is because they don't use the propeller type of flow sensor that is both prone to failure and gets maxed out with a lot of meth flow.

I carry the more affordable CM kit and mate it to a Guardian Angel to drop boost should it detect a failure. The aquamist kit can be setup the same way and they have PWM injection.

You can also consider 6th port once you are in the Aquamist price range.

I personally really don't feel comfortable fueling my engine with a meth kit without a failsafe. Especially a stock block where the margin for error is so small.

[blake0521]

It will be a built block like I said so that will give me some protection. I also was going to do the snow stage 2 kit with there fail safe system. Easier to wore from what I have read when compaired to aquamist. Just trying to figure out what mani I should run. A pnp stock mani and tap it or a jmf one that is pre tapped.

[2.0t03speed]

why is everyone so afraid of wiring? the aquamist install isn't hard it's just time consuming. use some posi tap connectors like i did and that install is easy.

[blake0521]

Because I know nothing about wiring that's why hahaha I am not good at the kind of stuff at all. It might be cheaper to go the aquamist route and just dive in head first.

[2.0t03speed]

Originally Posted by blake0521 Because I know nothing about wiring that's why hahaha I am not good at the kind of stuff at all. It might be cheaper to go the aquamist route and just dive in head first.

literally you get a diagram from aquamist and you get a ecu pin out off msf. find the right wire and tap it. you have to cut the ebcs wire as it intercepts it for the fail safe. Really the install isn't hard you just need to follow the diagram.

[blake0521]

Why did you not Solder? Posi tap work just as well? You might have sold me on aquamist.

[Gr8Speed]

Stuff

[blake0521]

Ok so pnp stock mani and tap it then run 4 small jets and on medium pre tb so I can see the bats drop. Think that will be the game plan.

[Gr8Speed]

Stuff

[JBR]

Originally Posted by blake0521 Ok so pnp stock mani and tap it then run 4 small jets and on medium pre tb so I can see the bats drop. Think that will be the game plan.

After PNP'ing the stock mani, wall thickness of the runners is too thin to tap.

Theses are a few shots of something we've been collaborating on with a few members of MSF. It's being tested now.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by jbarone After PNP'ing the stock mani, wall thickness of the runners is too thin to tap.

I beg your pardon?

I think it's cool that you're only cleaning 1 valve per cylinder though.

And the meth resistance of your silicone?

If your manifold flows evenly, pre throttle body injection, or even a post throttle body spacer, will yield even meth distribution, and will clean ALL the valves.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I beg your pardon? I think it's cool that you're only cleaning 1 valve per cylinder though. And the meth resistance of your silicone? If your manifold flows evenly, pre throttle body injection, or even a post throttle body spacer, will yield even meth distribution, and will clean ALL the valves.

Blah

[JBR]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 I beg your pardon? I think it's cool that you're only cleaning 1 valve per cylinder though. And the meth resistance of your silicone? If your manifold flows evenly, pre throttle body injection, or even a post throttle body spacer, will yield even meth distribution, and will clean ALL the valves.

Did I stutter?

After tapping there is very little meat left for threading. The risk of stripping the soft cast aluminum of the manifold is a very real possibility when attempting to tighten these small fittings. Welding on bungs is asking for trouble. I prefer to avoid problems.

Removing the divider in the spacer and centering the injector will only soak the divider in the head; that would be pointless. Now, if the head has been ported and the divider has been removed, it's a none issue. Cleaning one valve is better than none and if your at this stage it would be safe to assume you have a catch can?

Meth has been sprayed for years in the cold pipe of top mounts using our boost tubes. This method completely soaks the silicone and there have been no issues.

If someone is interested in a preprod unit message me; I'll try and get another run off.

I do not have the time to play games people who only want to tear down the work that goes in to supporting this platform.

/unsubbed

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by jbarone Did I stutter? After tapping there is very little meat left for threading. The risk of stripping the soft cast aluminum of the manifold is a very real possibility when attempting to tighten these small fittings. Welding on bungs is asking for trouble. I prefer to avoid problems. Removing the divider in the spacer and centering the injector will only soak the divider in the head; that would be pointless. Now, if the head has been ported and the divider has been removed, it's a none issue. Cleaning one valve is better than none and if your at this stage it would be safe to assume you have a catch can? Meth has been sprayed for years in the cold pipe of top mounts using our boost tubes. This method completely soaks the silicone and there have been no issues. If someone is interested in a preprod unit message me; I'll try and get another run off. I do not have the time to play games people who only want to tear down the work that goes in to supporting this platform. /unsubbed

After tapping there is little left for threading? Aren't they the same thing? I think you stuttered.
Many MANY people have drilled and tapped ported manifolds with no issue.
I'm all for creating new solutions, but spitting pure bullshit in an attempt to sell such solutions is where I take issue.

[Putin 2.3T]

Originally Posted by jbarone After PNP'ing the stock mani, wall thickness of the runners is too thin to tap. Theses are a few shots of something we've been collaborating on with a few members of MSF. It's being tested now.

PM'd.


#Tokayhatesme

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by jbarone After PNP'ing the stock mani, wall thickness of the runners is too thin to tap. Theses are a few shots of something we've been collaborating on with a few members of MSF. It's being tested now.

Can we also have injector bungs on the other ports pleeeeeeeeeeeeease?

[JBR]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 Can we also have injector bungs on the other ports pleeeeeeeeeeeeease?

You mean for a total of 8?

[NCspecV81]

Originally Posted by jbarone You mean for a total of 8?

I mean't fuel injectors on one side and meth on the other. Not sure if that would even work, but if it could I'd wait specifically for that. I wanna run tons of meth and tuns of extra PI.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by jbarone You mean for a total of 8?

Your powers of deduction are amazing.

[tastysi2004]

failsafes are meh in my opinion. most of them cant measure anything over 1000ml/mi so if you decide to go with 4 do4 or bigger,.... they'll be useless and bog your car down. pumps arent always as progressive. they can start nice and slow but then the failsafe will trigger... or if you decide to go wot out of no where and it starts fast and gives alot of fuel... failsafe triggers again.
im mainly talking about aem, snow and devils own.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by tastysi2004 failsafes are meh in my opinion. most of them cant measure anything over 1000ml/mi so if you decide to go with 4 do4 or bigger,.... they'll be useless and bog your car down. pumps arent always as progressive. they can start nice and slow but then the failsafe will trigger... or if you decide to go wot out of no where and it starts fast and gives alot of fuel... failsafe triggers again. im mainly talking about aem, snow and devils own.

The AEM and Snow are like this because of the sensors they use. They are flow limited and failure prone.

This is why I recommend the Coolingmist and Aquamist. I have experience with all of these and these are the best ones, reliable and without false positives.

Even a built block can bake a piston if you run it too lean due to a WMI failure.

[tastysi2004]

Originally Posted by Lex The AEM and Snow are like this because of the sensors they use. They are flow limited and failure prone. This is why I recommend the Coolingmist and Aquamist. I have experience with all of these and these are the best ones, reliable and without false positives. Even a built block can bake a piston if you run it too lean due to a WMI failure.

i concur with this.
@2.0t03speed;
his aquamist setup brings everything. but you're also paying a lot.
you get what you pay for.

[blake0521]

@Gr8Speed; do you know if meth will hurt the silicon on the jbr fmic piping? That is what I am running right now and I am trying to figure out where to put the pre tb nozzle since the bpv is so close to the tb.

And since I am only going for around 500 I was just going to run do1 nozzles or something small like that. Need to do some research on the correct size nozzles still. Build is in the VERY early stages still. Just trying to see how far I want to go since this will still be my dd.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by blake0521 @Gr8Speed; do you know if meth will hurt the silicon on the jbr fmic piping? That is what I am running right now and I am trying to figure out where to put the pre tb nozzle since the bpv is so close to the tb. And since I am only going for around 500 I was just going to run do1 nozzles or something small like that. Need to do some research on the correct size nozzles still. Build is in the VERY early stages still. Just trying to see how far I want to go since this will still be my dd.

Stuff

[tastysi2004]

do1 is too small

[blake0521]

Still trying to decide in turbo. The original plan was pte5858 but I am not sure if I would hate having a 500 whp dd car. Might pus out and just get a gtx28 and go for low 400s. That route will for sure be cheaper and easier to commute in. We will see once I get my block built what I decide to do.

[blake0521]

The funny part is the snow stage 2 kit with the flow gauge and safe inject is more expensive then the hs-3 system.

[blake0521]

Hell ya! Let me know if I can buy a preproduction one off ya @jbarone;

Also @jbarone; can you fmic piping handle pretb injection or will it eat the piping?

[2.0t03speed]

It depends on where you tap the runners. Relentless ported, powdercoated, and put in 4 meth nozzles for @tastysi2004; over a year ago. Pushing 30psi through it and haven't had a problem.

[Tokay444]

Sorry?
Bs? I'm not following.

[mxlplx71]

in 2013 i rebuilt my head ran it for a year (2013) without meth then i ran a do3 in each runner of my jmf intake all this last year and the valves were not clean. no large buildups but still black and some stuff on them.

[2.0t03speed]

While methanol might not "clean" the valves (take away current build up/deposits on the valve stem). It will help prevent any further build up. At least that's what I've seen happen on my own car.

[2.0t03speed]

Also i just hit up Javi @ Relentless. I don't know how much material you are taking out, but there is enough left on his ported/flow benched manifolds for meth nozzles.

[Tokay444]

Wow. Will you look at that.

[Matt@HTP]

Whats wrong with welding bungs? I've drilled and tap'd many stock manifolds with no problems. I do prefer nice bungs placed in the right spot. I'll take welded and right.