Best Big Turbo for HP/TQ?

[DVM17]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm new to the oh so great big turbo and wanted to know what turbo is best for not just hp but what matters, torque. I was looking at the HTA3586 i believe and the GTX3582r and didn't know if there was a better turbo for our cars. I'll start buying the parts probably this summer. I'm in college now and that's when I'll get to earn the money to do it.

I need my other car sold, so I can buy my HPFP, rods, pistons, and are there any more aggressive cams for this car? I won't be building it myself, I need to find a shop around pittsburgh that can build engines. I don't trust myself... lol I know it sounds dumb that I'm a noob, but I need power... haha Too many questions and sorry if this is a waste of your time. I'm not a mean guy so please try to help and not do the whole mazdaspeedforums thing. And yes, I'll donate when my other car sells.

If anyone lives nearby, I'm selling a 1995 subaru svx awd. haha

[helmetface]

Read more.

Learn more about what you want out of it.

Read..more..

[DVM17]

I do read and research. I just wanted to see if I could get 500wtq from either of those. I wanted a bigger turbo so I could get that number safely without maxxing out anything...

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by DVM17 I do read and research. I just wanted to see if I could get 500wtq from either of those. I wanted a bigger turbo so I could get that number safely without maxxing out anything...

Well homie obviously not enough. I think you should read through BT threads and find out what they're capable of. Because of the turbos you mentioned they have plenty to get you to your goals- with supporting mods and most importantly proper fueling.

I'll echo: figure what you want to do with the car (other than zomg 500 ponies) and then find the turbo and setup most appropriate to meet those goals.

[the public enemy]

Originally Posted by DVM17 I'm not a mean guy so please try to help and not do the whole mazdaspeedforums thing.

I do "the whole mazdaspeedforums thing" every day.

[DVM17]

I know you do... haha I looked at my first post and saw the no thank you. I just laughed pretty loud in my cubicle.... gotta explain that to the boss....

[leon78]

Just get MBC and turn it up to 27psi...K04 is good for it.

[DVM17]

Originally Posted by leon78 Just get MBC and turn it up to 27psi...K04 is good for it.

haha, already having troubles with my k04 now...

Originally Posted by helmetface Well homie obviously not enough. I think you should read through BT threads and find out what they're capable of. Because of the turbos you mentioned they have plenty to get you to your goals- with supporting mods and most importantly proper fueling. I'll echo: figure what you want to do with the car (other than zomg 500 ponies) and then find the turbo and setup most appropriate to meet those goals.

Thanks man, there's people that say the GTX will make 700 whp easy but with a 3071 I think I could still get my goal.

[blackrs99]

What makes you think that a certain # will make you happy? Have you driven a 300hp speed? How about a 400hp? What's so special about having a certain amount? Are you ready to face the trade-offs with a big turbo? Obviously you need to do more research for your power goals. After you've done enough research, you'll already have the answer to your OP.

[DVM17]

Originally Posted by blackrs99 What makes you think that a certain # will make you happy? Have you driven a 300hp speed? How about a 400hp? What's so special about having a certain amount? Are you ready to face the trade-offs with a big turbo? Obviously you need to do more research for your power goals. After you've done enough research, you'll already have the answer to your OP.

I appreciate the advice man. My friends 09 STI with 600whp makes me happy so..... I figured at least 500 would be great. haha never driven another speed... never see one.... let alone a big turbo one. So his subaru was as close as I could get to a 4 cylinder turbo awd. I know a lot of the trade offs with the big turbo and the worst thing in my perspective is the lag...

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by blackrs99 What makes you think that a certain # will make you happy? Have you driven a 300hp speed? How about a 400hp? What's so special about having a certain amount? Are you ready to face the trade-offs with a big turbo? Obviously you need to do more research for your power goals. After you've done enough research, you'll already have the answer to your OP.

Trade offs?

Lol winning versus not

[DVM17]

I guess I'll just build my engine and get a hpfp and wait for a BT... Sorry for wasting your time guys. My K04 will probably need replaced and when that happens is when I'll upgrade.

[captain slow]

Dude, you need to research and not post again until you have.

There are more choices than the HTA3586 or GTX3582. what about the GTX3071 or GTX3076, Several precision turbos out there, EFR...

[the public enemy]

At least you have a 6. You went well there in my opinion. Just go read for a while and you'll figure out what you want. Trust me

[BigRedSpecial]

Read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read read.









Then read some more.

[DVM17]

I'm in a thanking mood... for nice people. and I have a busy life, reading and researching when I can. lol

[BigRedSpecial]

Originally Posted by DVM17 I'm in a thanking mood... for nice people. and I have a busy life, reading and researching when I can. lol

Understandable but if you want to make big power, Especially on this platform, you'd better find time to research EVERY possible outcome/consequence. If not you're in for major headaches at best, catastrophic failure at worst.

EDIT: Most people on here will gladly help, once you show them you've put in a certain level of effort. The forum helps those that help themselves.

[Code Monkey]

EFR is coming out with a turbo-in-turbo design, just think about, harmonic oscillation and exponential increase in power!!!! You need to build your block first though and need an aftermarket IM with at least 4 extra fuel rails to handle the estimated 400^2 hp/tq!!!!

[DVM17]

Originally Posted by Code Monkey EFR is coming out with a turbo-in-turbo design, just think about, harmonic oscillation and exponential increase in power!!!! You need to build your block first though and need an aftermarket IM with at least 4 extra fuel rails to handle the estimated 400^2 hp/tq!!!!

HA!

Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial Understandable but if you want to make big power, Especially on this platform, you'd better find time to research EVERY possible outcome/consequence. If not you're in for major headaches at best, catastrophic failure at worst. EDIT: Most people on here will gladly help, once you show them you've put in a certain level of effort. The forum helps those that help themselves.

The one failure I was concerned the most about was the head and rods. Even though I'm going to get the rods built before the BT, there's some cases of heads popping off???

[speedms6]

Originally Posted by DVM17 The one failure I was concerned the most about was the head and rods. Even though I'm going to get the rods built before the BT, there's some cases of heads popping off???

heads popping off???

dumb and dumber pets heads falling off - YouTube

dumb and dumber pets heads falling off - YouTube

[BigRedSpecial]

Originally Posted by DVM17 The one failure I was concerned the most about was the head and rods. Even though I'm going to get the rods built before the BT, there's some cases of heads popping off???

Once again, read. You're a LLOOOOONNNNGGGGGG way from having a built block and 35r power. Read first, gain some knowledge, then buy supporting mods and play around with ATR a bit before you even consider going big turbo.

You can either learn before, or learn after. Learning after is fucking expensive.

Reading will tell you all about common failures as well. Rods are most common, then probably bent valves due to slipping timing, then ring land failures. A few people have blown headgaskets due to lifting the head under extreme boost, but people aren't "popping heads off".

[Nitr0EngiE]

lol 4 extra fuel rails ???

you have no business talking sir

[captain slow]

Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE lol 4 extra fuel rails ??? you have no business talking sir

Because @Code Monkey; was totally serious.....

[Code Monkey]

Someone's sarcasm meter is broke....

[MonstaSpeed6]

Whoa buddy, you are aiming way too high. This isn't an Evo. Get all proper Bolton's and buy a BNR S3 before you get over your head.

35R, .88AR and larger need much more fuel and need to be built right. A hpfp wont do much of shit for a Turbo this size without additional PI fueling or tons-o-meth.

Maybe a PG K04 or CPE K04 would better suit you.

[speed_freak91]

Willing to bet he hasnt research on this forum for more then 10 minutes. If he did, he would have seen the dyno section which almost always list hp/tq numbers with that persons build. Lets not also forgot the turbo induction section which talks about anything turbo related..

Inb4"speed6poppedmotor"thread

[DVM17]

Originally Posted by speed_freak91 Willing to bet he hasnt research on this forum for more then 10 minutes. If he did, he would have seen the dyno section which almost always list hp/tq numbers with that persons build. Lets not also forgot the turbo induction section which talks about anything turbo related.. Inb4"speed6poppedmotor"thread

That's very nice of you to say after I stated I spend my time researching. Please give me a link to where I can find someone who says their tune is very conservative with a hta3586. I've been looking. There are people with gtx3582's with conservative tunes but the hta seems to elude me. Like I said, I want it to be so it's not under much load during driving. Which is why I want a big turbo. I'm not that stupid as to get on a forum where people are notorious for being picky on what you say and using it against you. (funny with the head popping off) haha that was my fault...

No disrespect because I know all you guys have more mods and are VIP's but cut a guy a break for getting advice on a forum.... lol

Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial Once again, read. You're a LLOOOOONNNNGGGGGG way from having a built block and 35r power. Read first, gain some knowledge, then buy supporting mods and play around with ATR a bit before you even consider going big turbo. You can either learn before, or learn after. Learning after is fucking expensive. Reading will tell you all about common failures as well. Rods are most common, then probably bent valves due to slipping timing, then ring land failures. A few people have blown headgaskets due to lifting the head under extreme boost, but people aren't "popping heads off".

I apologize for the "popping off" lol The lifting of the head is the word I was looking for. That awkward moment when you type a word similar because you can't put your finger on what the actual word is... haha

Originally Posted by MonstaSpeed6 Honestly, be very aware that our cars are direct injection, and the lack of aftermarket injectors makes fueling for high cfm turbos very difficult. You either need 5&6th ports which comes with its own difficulties in tuning properly and wiring, or methanol like crazy. Don't approach this like you are building a Suhy or fail will follow.

That's the main problem as everyone knows.... Direct Injection is good.... stock. and thank you for the advice. and I'm as cautious as ever. That's why I'm consulting you guys.

[DVM17]

Haha! can't view this at work but I get what you're saying.... I meant like the gasket and the head separate and let coolant into the cylinders.

Originally Posted by MonstaSpeed6 Whoa buddy, you are aiming way too high. This isn't an Evo. Get all proper Bolton's and buy a BNR S3 before you get over your head. 35R, .88AR and larger need much more fuel and need to be built right. A hpfp wont do much of shit for a Turbo this size without additional PI fueling or tons-o-meth. Maybe a PG K04 or CPE K04 would better suit you.

Thanks, I was looking at the "reworked" K04 but I also was interested in the 5th PI.

[MonstaSpeed6]

Originally Posted by DVM17 Haha! can't view this at work but I get what you're saying.... I meant like the gasket and the head separate and let coolant into the cylinders. Thanks, I was looking at the "reworked" K04 but I also was interested in the 5th PI.

Honestly, be very aware that our cars are direct injection, and the lack of aftermarket injectors makes fueling for high cfm turbos very difficult. You either need 5&6th ports which comes with its own difficulties in tuning properly and wiring, or methanol like crazy. Don't approach this like you are building a Suhy or fail will follow.

As stated before, get acquainted with ATR, and just do Bolton's for now. Going that big comes with a lot of Fab work and that realm is still largely unexplored.

[captain slow]

Originally Posted by DVM17 Thanks, I was looking at the "reworked" K04 but I also was interested in the 5th PI.

Reworked K04 is a bad idea. I feel like he may mislead you. If you have a built motor and a GTX3071 or GTX3076, you can still get good power on pump gas. Throw in E85 and you'll have fun. 5th/6th port is another way to go.

Have you done research on this shit though? Building a motor is expensive if done right. Its cheaper than blowing your shit, but still pricey. Cheapest way to build motor is the drop in method a few people have done here and I would read those threads on pros and cons.

If you're really hell bent, build the motor for peace of mind, pick a decent sized turbo for spool and powerband that just uses pump gas and no other fueling. Easiest way to go. I honestly think that if you built the motor and used a GTX3076 on corn you'd be close enough to your 500hp to be happy.

[MonstaSpeed6]

Originally Posted by captain slow Reworked K04 is a bad idea. I feel like he may mislead you. If you have a built motor and a GTX3071 or GTX3076, you can still get good power on pump gas. Throw in E85 and you'll have fun. 5th/6th port is another way to go. Have you done research on this shit though? Building a motor is expensive if done right. Its cheaper than blowing your shit, but still pricey. Cheapest way to build motor is the drop in method a few people have done here and I would read those threads on pros and cons.

Yeah, I was being an asshole when I said to get a PG K04, they are shit, and CPEs is way over priced. But I was being honest about a BNR S3. You can properly run a BNR with stock MAF, stock TIP diameter, and requires much less tuning t be done to have fun. BNRs can make decent power while not requiring as much from you if you want to keep stock engine. It's the closest to.a true bolton BT as you can get.

But, as said before, if you are hell bent on 500hp a BNR S3 wont get you there. Captain slow is directing you right.

[captain slow]

Originally Posted by MonstaSpeed6 Yeah, I was being an asshole when I said to get a PG K04, they are shit, and CPEs is way over priced. But I was being honest about a BNR S3. You can properly run a BNR with stock MAF, stock TIP diameter, and requires much less tuning t be done to have fun. BNRs can make decent power while not requiring as much from you if you want to keep stock engine.

Honestly @DVM17; this is the cheapest and most reliable way to go "BT" I put BT in quotes because its a stock frame turbo with the guts of a GT2871 in it. You dont need to be built or go crazy with anything else with this turbo. Its capable of 400whp or close as others have shown.

[DVM17]

Originally Posted by MonstaSpeed6 Yeah, I was being an asshole when I said to get a PG K04, they are shit, and CPEs is way over priced. But I was being honest about a BNR S3. You can properly run a BNR with stock MAF, stock TIP diameter, and requires much less tuning t be done to have fun. BNRs can make decent power while not requiring as much from you if you want to keep stock engine. It's the closest to.a true bolton BT as you can get. But, as said before, if you are hell bent on 500hp a BNR S3 wont get you there. Captain slow is directing you right.

I'm not hell bent on 500hp but I guess it's a goal? Mainly torque though. I care more about that than horsepower.

Originally Posted by captain slow Honestly @DVM17; this is the cheapest and most reliable way to go "BT" I put BT in quotes because its a stock frame turbo with the guts of a GT2871 in it. You dont need to be built or go crazy with anything else with this turbo. Its capable of 400whp or close as others have shown.

I get what you're saying and I guess I just really want a BT with no built block, but if that's the safe way to do it until I actually get a job out of college, I'll try it. The sad thing with the turbos is the difference between a 2871r and a 3582r is $300...

[BigRedSpecial]

Originally Posted by DVM17 The sad thing with the turbos is the difference between a 2871r and a 3582r is $300...

Yes, but the difference in what you'll need to take advantage of the 35 is a hell of a lot more than $300.

[DVM17]

Originally Posted by captain slow Reworked K04 is a bad idea. I feel like he may mislead you. If you have a built motor and a GTX3071 or GTX3076, you can still get good power on pump gas. Throw in E85 and you'll have fun. 5th/6th port is another way to go. Have you done research on this shit though? Building a motor is expensive if done right. Its cheaper than blowing your shit, but still pricey. Cheapest way to build motor is the drop in method a few people have done here and I would read those threads on pros and cons. If you're really hell bent, build the motor for peace of mind, pick a decent sized turbo for spool and powerband that just uses pump gas and no other fueling. Easiest way to go. I honestly think that if you built the motor and used a GTX3076 on corn you'd be close enough to your 500hp to be happy.

I've been researching this for quite a while... the only problem is I have no corn where I live. sad I know, considering it's grown all around me. I was considering the GTX3076 but I know that turbo requires more to put out the same hp/tq numbers as a bigger big turbo. I just want a reliable BT. I know, crazy right? haha

Originally Posted by MonstaSpeed6 Yeah, I was being an asshole when I said to get a PG K04, they are shit, and CPEs is way over priced. But I was being honest about a BNR S3. You can properly run a BNR with stock MAF, stock TIP diameter, and requires much less tuning t be done to have fun. BNRs can make decent power while not requiring as much from you if you want to keep stock engine.

lol, It's cool. That's why I'm asking so far in advance. And being honest, I haven't took much of a look into an S3. I'll be looking at that tonight. Thanks!

[captain slow]

For me, if I ever go "big" i'll prolly go BNR S3. Cheapest way for reliable power. I'd rather have a new 2013+ Mustang and make power with that.

You may be happy with what the BNR can bring, maybe you want a 3071... but these rods are on borrowed time above 400 torques (as Clarkson would say)

I love my car, dont get me wrong. I love seeing what other guys do breaking the 500 whp, 600, 700+ barrier, but for me, its just not a car to do that in. I'd rather have a RWD big power monster. And keep this as a DD with 350-380 at the wheels. It will still embarrass plenty of douche bags on the road. Some will agree with me, some wont. I'll admit I'm kinda boring and cookie cutter with my cars. Those big power guys aren't. They are pretty creative and unique.

[Swinger13]

patience young grass hopper

[uncorked11]

Judging by your mod list edge prices put you about $5000.00 away from big turbo. Can it be done cheaper sure but that requires patience and planning and ebay. You should worry about learning the car before moving to the big time. it will save you headaches later. I have what many may call quality parts and im in about 5,000 in just power parts. Good luck

[NJSPEED3]

just gonna throw this out there.

There are probably less than 5 DISI MZR's street legal race cars that have ever existed making 500whp+ 500wtq+. You're goals seem a bit unrealistic. There is also no clean approach to even making these kind of numbers. Just because you have a big ass turbo doesn't mean you're going to make big numbers.

Expect to spend close to $20k all said and done.(its the lil shit that adds up)

I think you just need to read more dude, this thread is silly haha.

[anavrinIV]

Um...fucking donate? No one has yelled at you yet which is impressive. If you plan on modding this car you need MSF, and MSF needs you to donate before you get much more help.

There, that's out of the way.

You're a very long way from your goals, and they are lofty at best.