BNR S3 or BNR S4

[ryguy 3]

Originally Posted by tmillner Does anyone know the gains from a 3 inch intake over cs "stg2"? My thought was I'd rather re-buy an intake then a turbo if I want bigger Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

I gained about 20 g/s when I went from the corksport stage 2 to the jbr Tru 3".

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[Nitro]

I upgraded from the corksport to a JBR 3 inch intake on the stock k04 and didn't notice any significant changes. I also had it retuned for the intake size. My friend has the exact same car with exact same mods and we would consistently be even during 3rd to 4th gear pulls. The intake may have offered a slight bump at higher rpm, but in my opinion it was not worth it on a stock turbo. It did motivate me to get the BNR S3 though and that combination works very well.

[tmillner]

I don't see a draw back

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[Rambo]

Been lurking for awhile, I have no plan on building the block so I think the s3 will fit my needs. Don't need anymore than 350 whp as I find hooking even with PSS is difficult and no plan on meth either. Also in Canada e85 is almost impossible to find.

[Nitro]

Rambo I run an S3 that is tuned to 350. It pulls great and you won't be dissapointed. 3rd gear traction on PSS is a challenge

[dale_gribble]

Hey @Rambo;, here's the thing though. The S4 will make more power on pump gas than the S3. So, even if you didn't desire to push the S4 up to it's limits it's still worth it.

If I were running an S3 or S4 on just pump gas, I would still choose to run the S4. You still hit the knock limit with the S3 on pump gas pretty quick over the k04. The S4 offers more airflow at lower boost levels than S3. Who's the one that got really impressive #s on an S4 with just pump gas? I can't remember who, but I was really impressed with the #s .

[tmillner]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Hey @Rambo;, here's the thing though. The S4 will make more power on pump gas than the S3. So, even if you didn't desire to push the S4 up to it's limits it's still worth it. If I were running an S3 or S4 on just pump gas, I would still choose to run the S4. You still hit the knock limit with the S3 on pump gas pretty quick over the k04. The S4 offers more airflow at lower boost levels than S3. Who's the one that got really impressive #s on an S4 with just pump gas? I can't remember who, but I was really impressed with the #s .

Dale are you on an s4 now?

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[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by tmillner Dale are you on an s4 now? Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Neg. Still S3. On pump gas alone, I think I only picked up about 30whp with the S3 though over the k04. Now, when I went Meth injection, the gains were much better. But I digress. Here's a quick overview of why the S4 will make more power than the S3 on pump gas:

In very basic terms, a "bigger" turbo will move more airflow with less heat generated during the compression stage. This is due to the compressor wheel being sized to move the appropriate amount of air within the "happy" compressor RPM range.

And, more importantly, once this air is combusted and turned into exhaust, a turbo with a "bigger" turbine wheel will spin at an appropriate RPM and will induce less power-robbing exhaust backpressure. The less backpressure on the exhaust side, the more air that can be pumped through the engine at any given boost pressure.

[Rambo]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Hey @Rambo;, here's the thing though. The S4 will make more power on pump gas than the S3. So, even if you didn't desire to push the S4 up to it's limits it's still worth it. If I were running an S3 or S4 on just pump gas, I would still choose to run the S4. You still hit the knock limit with the S3 on pump gas pretty quick over the k04. The S4 offers more airflow at lower boost levels than S3. Who's the one that got really impressive #s on an S4 with just pump gas? I can't remember who, but I was really impressed with the #s .

Really? Well that's peaked my interest... Lol I was just searching the for sale section for a s3. Living in Canada has its advantages but our dollar is horrendous right now. Thanks @dale_dribble


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[voodoo2crue]

Originally Posted by Rambo Really? Well that's peaked my interest... Lol I was just searching the for sale section for a s3. Living in Canada has its advantages but our dollar is horrendous right now. Thanks @dale_dribble Sent from my LG-D852 using Tapatalk

Haha, i came in here as well leaning toward an s3 BUT this thread changed my mind.

[tmillner]

I'm on the s4 more, haven't finished tuning though, and I've only picked up like 40whp on pump alone. Not what i expected.

What's different is it holds boost so much better, 22+ straight through. I'm going to have to go e30

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[Rambo]

Originally Posted by tmillner I'm on the s4 more, haven't finished tuning though, and I've only picked up like 40whp on pump alone. Not what i expected. What's different is it holds boost so much better, 22+ straight through. I'm going to have to go e30 Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

@tmillner; when do you start hitting boost?

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[tmillner]

Let me find a log, hold on

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[tmillner]

I'm at 18 psi at 3500, usually carries 22 through 6k. Alot different then k04

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[dale_gribble]

Based on the dynos and logs I've seen, on shipped WG preload, the S4 is spooled by ~3500-3600. Spools like a mid turbo, flows like a bigger one.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Based on the dynos and logs I've seen, on shipped WG preload, the S4 is spooled by ~3500-3600. Spools like a mid turbo, flows like a bigger one.

So to get more boost with less wgdc, would it be necessary to adjust the wastegate actuator to a higher threshold?

Would it be possible to over boost at lower rpm's if the wastegate actuator is adjusted too high on the s3 or s4? I know the K04 does this all the time. I had to zero out wgdc until 3000 rpm to keep boost in check at lower rpm's.

I read somewhere that this was happening with the BNR's and then they started shipping them with a lower wastegate setting to open around 12 psi.

[tmillner]

I had to adjust my wg preload, causing boost creep. Kinda a pain in the ass. If anyone does get an s4 talk with your tuner, before you install, about your preload.

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[voodoo2crue]

I'm no longer thinking about it, I just pulled the trigger on the S4

[tmillner]

HELL YEAH

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[memin]

I know this may be a little off topic but I debating between S4 and the CS turbo, does anybody has any input on this two turbos?? I am trying to get the most bang for my $$ overall (reliability, quality, hp, etc) Thanks in advance!!!

[MS3Shadow]

Originally Posted by memin I know this may be a little off topic but I debating between S4 and the CS turbo, does anybody has any input on this two turbos?? I am trying to get the most bang for my $$ overall (reliability, quality, hp, etc) Thanks in advance!!!

The CS Turbo is most similar to a S3.

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[MD1032]

If you autocross at all, S3 all the way. The S4 is going to be a dog in the low RPM's. The S3 by comparison has a much lower boost threshold and reaches peak torque pretty damn early (3000 RPM's on my car). It feels similar to a K04 on the course, just less "punch" down low. The S3 is no slouch in terms of flow, either. More than enough to max the stock engine (torque, power, fuel injector) but without the delayed spool of the S4 or other midsize turbos.

If you don't autocross, S4 is probably the way to go per previous posts. Fatter powerband with more total power for track/street usage.

[08speed]

I'll be ordering a s4 in the next week or two. There's still a few supporting mods i'll need to get though.

[Dennisms3]

My k04 recently gave out on me, so I needed to replace the turbo. I was also trying to figure out which which turbo to go with the s3 or s4. I chose the bnr s3 because it spooled very much like the k04 but with the benefit of the top end power. Also I do not plans on pushing my car 400whp at all, and didn't want to put too much stress on the engine. I got a really sweet deal on therpmstore for the bnr s3 combo. Bnr s3 is great! Spools fast and holds boost all the way to redline. Only downside is that on pump 91octane gas its very knock limited. But on an e85 mix this thing is a complete monster. So far I like the turbo a lot. Super fun for a dd and to smash down some curvy back roads, the power is everywhere. So if i say if you don't have any plans on pushing your car 400whp+ then this is a great turbo!

[tmillner]

Originally Posted by Dennisms3 My k04 recently gave out on me, so I needed to replace the turbo. I was also trying to figure out which which turbo to go with the s3 or s4. I chose the bnr s3 because it spooled very much like the k04 but with the benefit of the top end power. Also I do not plans on pushing my car 400whp at all, and didn't want to put too much stress on the engine. I got a really sweet deal on therpmstore for the bnr s3 combo. Bnr s3 is great! Spools fast and holds boost all the way to redline. Only downside is that on pump 91octane gas its very knock limited. But on an e85 mix this thing is a complete monster. So far I like the turbo a lot. Super fun for a dd and to smash down some curvy back roads, the power is everywhere. So if i say if you don't have any plans on pushing your car 400whp+ then this is a great turbo!

What kind of gains did you see from the e85 mix? I think I'm getting close to being knock limited

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[Dennisms3]

Originally Posted by tmillner What kind of gains did you see from the e85 mix? I think I'm getting close to being knock limited Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Currently just got done with my 91 octane tune. If I remember correctly, I was running 22psi. and only able to run about 8.5* or 9* timing @7k rpm. Vd showed ~320whp ~350wtrq. I am now tuning it for a e30 mix with 20psi tampering to 23psi @redline with 13* @7k rpm. Vd is showing ~350whp ~360wtrq. I still have more left in the turbo. My goal is 370-380whp on e30.

Mods are:
Tmic (not sure what kind)
3bar map sensor
Grimmspeed ebcs
Ebay catless dp
Jbr tru 3" intake
Bnr s3
Autotech hpfp internals
Forge bpv
Custom Vented occ
NGK step colder plugs
Cobb ap v3

Im also going fmic soon, I feel like it will help in the summer.

[tmillner]

On a 93 tune, not finished yet, I'm running around 22 psi not sure of timing. Vd is showing snot the same 320. We'll see what the finish product is. But I'm pretty sure I'll do an e30 tune too

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What kind of knock were you seeing

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[Dennisms3]

Originally Posted by tmillner On a 93 tune, not finished yet, I'm running around 22 psi not sure of timing. Vd is showing snot the same 320. We'll see what the finish product is. But I'm pretty sure I'll do an e30 tune too Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk What kind of knock were you seeing Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

I think it was around 1.40-2.00.

[tmillner]

Did it taper off or consistent

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[Dennisms3]

Originally Posted by tmillner Did it taper off or consistent Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

It was consistent from around 6200-6500. When I do my logs I keep an eye out on the knock, as soon as I noticed the knock I let off the throttle. Im almost certain it was from high bats. I did 2 pulls on a chilly night, bats were fairly cool and got no knock. Then did 2 pulls in 70degree weather during daytime with the same timing and got that knock. So I pulled some timing and no more knock on 91 octane. I think I was getting knock around 10* @7k rpm. So I think I'm at 8.5* now. Because of the high bats is why I'm considering a fmic. Iv seen people make 330-350 on 93 octane, so I'm pretty sure you can make a bit more.

[tmillner]

Looks like I'm at 8.5* but now i have no kr after spool up. This revision the tuner advanced timing not sure how high. I'll do another pull tonight. Im hoping to get to 350whp on 93 but doesn't look like its going to happen

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[Rambo]

Anyone making 350+whp on a s3 pump gas? We get 94 here in Canada

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[Nitro]

350hp on 93 would be nice. I am at that with she'll 92 and e85. 18* at 6000rpm
@Rambo; our Chevron 94 on the west coast is terrible.

[tmillner]

Originally Posted by Nitro 350hp on 93 would be nice. I am at that with she'll 92 and e85. 18* at 6000rpm @Rambo our Chevron 94 on the west coast is terrible.

Where are you located, I can't find it through this damn app

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[Nitro]

Lol. I am in Vancouver, Canada

[tmillner]

If trump gets elected I'll be calling you neighbor

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[Nitro]

Sounds good @tmillner

[Rambo]

@Nitro; how much were you making on pump gas?

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[Nitro]

@Rambo. VD showed low in my opinion. It was around 310hp. The problem with VD, in my opinion, is it is hard to get an accurate reading. I finally went to an actual dyno to get my e85 tune confirmed.

[Rambo]

Damn... @nitro. I'm at 305whp with the K04 on pump. I want to be able to feel the extra power hoping the s3 can get me 40-50whp

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