BNR S3 or BNR S4

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by ryguy 3 You didn't read did you? He's talking about CS injector seals and going from the S3 - S4. Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Guess not.

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[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Why would you upgrade from an S3 to a CS anyway man? That's a sidegrade, not an upgrade. Hope the S4 works for you. I'm probably going the opposite direction (smaller) after having the S3 honestly but I can understand the appeal of big turbo power especially for how cheap the S4 is. It's an amazing value.

Going with the BNR S4 for the turbo, going with CS for the injector seals.

[iamareios]

22psi on the S4 sure feels good!

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by Chef_boi_r_u_dum S3 for me. My decision was made based on not wanting to max the stock block/internals, not wanting to use aux fueling/meth and not wanting to buy a new intake.

Old thread bump, but what intake did you run? RPM's website says the s3 inlet is 2.36 while the k04 is 2.16. Will I be able to stretch a silicone JBR intake for the k04 onto the s3?

[Code Monkey]

Originally Posted by StevenW Will I be able to stretch a silicone JBR intake for the k04 onto the s3?

Yes.

[Lex2007]

Originally Posted by specvspeedfreak Been driving on an almost complete 91 tune S4 for sometime now and can say hands down the S4 is superior to the S3... I remember when the S3 was claimed as the best turbo for daily driving and stock block <<< that can't be said anymore.. The off/on boost delivery is perfect with smoother and stronger power... The best part? the power band is widened up to perfection... It has a strong hit (maybe not as fast as the s3) but the continues chugging of the turbo all the way to redline just has a different, kick ass feel now... inherents a good side effect; the feel of taller gearing. WIN Even though I really want to start my meth tune... it's at a real good place with just 91 so no big deal.

Your comment caught my attention. Thanks for posting this. Im trying to decide between Corksport drop in turbo, or BNR3 or BNR4 on stock everything accept for a CAI and HPFP internals. Everyone is complimentary of the 3 turbos but without being able to make a comparison between them. You did.

I dont care about the $200 price difference between stage 3 and 4 and I dont plan to rebuild the motor. I need a reliable DD and I need a replacement on my leaking ko4 with 113k miles on it, and soon.

[tmillner]

Not sure where the cs spoils at but the s4 spoils at 3500. You will get better response with s3 and if you arent going to build block can get close to maxing block out with s3 and better response. Just something to think about

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[Lex2007]

Its tough to make these decisions without the benefit of driving cars with the different turbos.

Someone claims the CS creeps boost very easily.

Who knows!?

[tmillner]

Come 2 savannah ga you can drive my s4 ms3.

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[Lex2007]

Originally Posted by tmillner Come 2 savannah ga you can drive my s4 ms3. Sent from my SM-N930P using Tapatalk

you driven an s3 equipped car?

Sometimes I wonder if its even worth it...its just gonna spin tires in 1st and 2nd, then Im gonna need high-vibration motor mounts, then the clutch is gonna take a shit, then injectors will leak. But I digress....

EDGE Autosports, please make a RWD conversion kit!

[mituc]

If everything is stock except for the HPFP and CAI (so not even exhaust) then I'd go for the S3 because it will have more grunt down low. Of course you need to carefully tune the response and load up to 3500rpm but that's another story. Without an exhaust you will push back a lot of heat into the turbine wheel and not that you will not make the expected power but you may also damage it prematurely.

As for the CS and S4 turbos they flow more up top while sacrificing about 200-300rpm in the low 3000rpm range which is still beneficial because it will not have the rod snapping response there and will be able to push more air above 6000rpm without adding flames so it. The response around 2500-3000rpm area with these slightly larger turbos it's definitely something you'll have to get in use to or learn, because they will have at least one more second of delay compared to the S3 and more compared to the factory turbo.

[ryguy 3]

Originally Posted by Lex2007 you driven an s3 equipped car? Sometimes I wonder if its even worth it...its just gonna spin tires in 1st and 2nd, then Im gonna need high-vibration motor mounts, then the clutch is gonna take a shit, then injectors will leak. But I digress.... EDGE Autosports, please make a RWD conversion kit!

Hahaha no

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[tmillner]

Never driven s3. But even with the k04 and my mods the car was pretty useless in 1st and 2nd.



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[MSP6]

1st and 2nd will be less useful in a K04 car than in a BT car, your logic is backwards..

[tmillner]

No my logic is right.

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[MSP6]

That was more directed at @Lex2007;

A K04 car tuned with bolt ons etc is more likely to spin 1st-2nd than an S3, S4, etc. The faster the spool, the faster the tires will break loose.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by MSP6 That was more directed at @Lex2007; A K04 car tuned with bolt ons etc is more likely to spin 1st-2nd than an S3, S4, etc. The faster the spool, the faster the tires will break loose.

So you're saying that a k04 car will spin more tire than an s3 because it's a "quicker spooling" turbo? Well, shit, why not just go straight to a 6266? Then you're sure to hook since they spool so slow, right??



It's about torque, not spool. If there is sufficient wheel torque to overcome available grip, she'll spin. You spin more in 1st and 2nd because gearing gives you more torque at the wheels.

For example, a turbo like an S4 may spin you all the way through 2nd where a k04 will spin you up to 4krpm because the S4 can maintain torque up the revs.

[MSP6]

Sigh, so being at work and not wanting to go into a lengthy post, yes I said spool. You are correct it is "torque" not "spool". The quicker spool of the K04 brings on more low end torque, at a faster rate than say an S4 will. This is more likely to break the tires loose in 1st and 2nd in terms of regular driving, part throttle, half throttle situations that would likely not happen wither a larger turbo. I'm not talking who will spin them in 3rd and 4th on the highway.

My case is that his argument of "..its just gonna spin tires in 1st and 2nd" as an argument against going BT makes no sense. A slower spooling turbo will help you modulate wheelspin better than one that is at 20psi at 3k before you blink.

[MD1032]

...or you can just not drive like a gorilla and modulate the throttle instead of just flooring it and spinning your tires.

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[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by MSP6 Sigh, so being at work and not wanting to go into a lengthy post, yes I said spool. You are correct it is "torque" not "spool". The quicker spool of the K04 brings on more low end torque, at a faster rate than say an S4 will. This is more likely to break the tires loose in 1st and 2nd in terms of regular driving, part throttle, half throttle situations that would likely not happen wither a larger turbo. I'm not talking who will spin them in 3rd and 4th on the highway. My case is that his argument of "..its just gonna spin tires in 1st and 2nd" as an argument against going BT makes no sense. A slower spooling turbo will help you modulate wheelspin better than one that is at 20psi at 3k before you blink.

Your argument is jumping around here, but I think I see what you're getting at.

Your argument is modulation, not turbo related. "The torque comes faster." However, you could always turn a k04 down if you really wanted to. I don't have FWD problems, but my load is mapped linearly to APP to allow me better modulation. This is tuneable via throttle, wastegate, whatever. Having a bigger turbo would mean you would have to WG even more, or trim even more of it's capability.

To say a bigger turbo capable of more torque will be better for wheelspin is nonsensical. More torque is more likely to spin. Period.

Now to unsub before I get driven nuts again.

[mituc]

The smaller the turbo the greater the torque at low RPM and the quicker the spool. That exactly is the recipe for wheel spin. With a GTX3071 (which spools like a CS or S4, but is slightly more potent up top) on pump gas I was able to floor it in 2nd and not need a new pair of tires in the front next morning. WOT in 2nd in a slightly tuned K04 equals wheel spin.
With the K04 I only added a TMIC and an intake without even a tune (yeah, I was stupid back then) and every WOT event in 1st and 2nd was a smoke show.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by MD1032 ...or you can just not drive like a gorilla and modulate the throttle instead of just flooring it and spinning your tires. Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

I've learned to feather the pedal in 1st and 2nd for part boost that helps me keep traction and push me into my seat. Spinning tires is boring unless I'm under an overpass and want to be obnoxious.

[specvspeedfreak]

Originally Posted by Lex2007 Your comment caught my attention. Thanks for posting this. Im trying to decide between Corksport drop in turbo, or BNR3 or BNR4 on stock everything accept for a CAI and HPFP internals. Everyone is complimentary of the 3 turbos but without being able to make a comparison between them. You did. I dont care about the $200 price difference between stage 3 and 4 and I dont plan to rebuild the motor. I need a reliable DD and I need a replacement on my leaking ko4 with 113k miles on it, and soon.

No problem. I say wait for the S4 v2 .. nothing has been wrong with mine other than it needed a lot added preload with the meth tune just to hit 24 psi.. maybe this will be addressed with v2. It's really a good performing turbo and with a good tuner, it can be tuned to respond to pretty much any preference..

Edit.. sorry if the last line sounds like I'm selling on an infomercial lol..

In all honesty I have experienced tunes by two well known tuners(for the S4). Tuner A is like a magician and every revision has been great with throttle/turbo response I prefer.

Tuner B, well, let's just say I've had good revisions to something that was super hyper ninja shit.. which I hated and made drivability garbage. At the end he just wasn't as polished of a tuner as people think he is.

The reason for 2 tuners is cause tuner A is very busy and slow with kicking out revisions...got impatient and went to tuner B.. Now I'm back with tuner A, he is worth the wait.

Moral of the story. Choose a good tuner!

[blackms3_71]

Tuner b sounds like justin lol.

[specvspeedfreak]

Originally Posted by blackms3_71 Tuner b sounds like justin lol.

Thanks for not asking ... but no, it aint Justin.

I have used justin with the K04 so has my brother with his ST.. no complaints here

[Tiner]

Originally Posted by Lex2007 you driven an s3 equipped car? Sometimes I wonder if its even worth it...its just gonna spin tires in 1st and 2nd, then Im gonna need high-vibration motor mounts, then the clutch is gonna take a shit, then injectors will leak. But I digress.... EDGE Autosports, please make a RWD conversion kit!

[MSP6]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx Your argument is jumping around here, but I think I see what you're getting at. Your argument is modulation, not turbo related. "The torque comes faster." However, you could always turn a k04 down if you really wanted to. I don't have FWD problems, but my load is mapped linearly to APP to allow me better modulation. This is tuneable via throttle, wastegate, whatever. Having a bigger turbo would mean you would have to WG even more, or trim even more of it's capability. To say a bigger turbo capable of more torque will be better for wheelspin is nonsensical. More torque is more likely to spin. Period. Now to unsub before I get driven nuts again.

It's not jumping around. It's specific to a K04 vs a larger turbo in 1st-2nd gear only. Your argument was that its gearing that causes the wheelspin in 1st and 2nd. By that logic removing any/all turbo from our car and driving it NA, or having the K04, or having a GT70 frame turbo would all be the same?

You can't typically achieve full boost even on a K04 in 1st and 2nd gear let alone an S3, S4 or larger.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by specvspeedfreak I say wait for the S4 v2 .. nothing has been wrong with mine other than it needed a lot added preload with the meth tune just to hit 24 psi.. maybe this will be addressed with v2. It's really a good performing turbo and with a good tuner, it can be tuned to respond to pretty much any preference..

When does the S4 v2 come out? And what concerns does it address?

[specvspeedfreak]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 When does the S4 v2 come out? And what concerns does it address?

Not sure... I would call them.. I don't think there is a "concern" .. well at least for me; even needing more preload isn't a concern since it can be specific to setup and really the opposite of harmful.

[Whitebullet]

Read all 4 dang pages of this thread and still undecided about bnr s3 or s4. I like the earlier spool with more punch like the k04. But am i missing out on the s4 power band
When does s4 spool, i’ve seen 3100 and 3500 in this same thread. Compared to what rpm for K04 and S3?
Thanks
06 ms6, sp63 stage 1, bnr, atp downpipe, cpe tmic, 91 octane
Read some good intel on bnr’s site. S3 for my build
Quote from their site:
If your car is fully bolted with high performance fuel pump internals we suggest an S3 with a tune. Fully bolted with added methanol injection go with the S4 and a tune. Stock engine internals, don’t even think about doing an S5 or S6!

[Coffeespeed]

Researched b/w CS, S3 and S4 for a year. Went with an S4 and so glad that I did. I got data logs from the pulls that I am doing right now for the E-tune on this thread, so use that to see if spool characteristics is what you are looking for. I got cats and a TMIC.

Coffees genpu going BNRS4 and stuffs.