BNR Stage3 Installation

[speedo]

I will install a BNR stage 3 turbo really soon but I need some additionnal information about the installation. I read somewhere that after the turbo installation is complete, we are supposed to crank the car (but without totaly starting it) to make sure oil is going inside the turbo housing. Is it true and how do I made that (by removing the fuel pump fuse)?

I want to make it by myself because I want to save some money. It's my first turbo installation but I have do a lot of mechanical work.

Any help, information, tip on the installation should be great before I put my car on jack stand and start the job.

Thanks

[zx2man]

PM forzda, and Iam sure he will tell you everything you need to know about the installation steps regarding the bnr turbo.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

From what I understand, the bnr stage 3 is very similar to the 2871. If that is the case, I wrote a how to under the gen 2 how to section... I didn't put any photos, as the 2871 is similar to a 3071 install, and Lenny has a how to sticky under gen 1 w lots of photos... I think it is called Lenny gets big turbo fever too.

So, when u pm forzdA (who is one of the most knowledgeable dudes on the forum) like zx2man suggested, if you verify that it is like the 2871, then you should be able to learn all the trouble spots between those two how to's.

... I did not prime the turbo and nothing bad has happened yet, but idk if you are supposed to or not.

Sorry, I'd give u some links here but I'm on my phone.

[Lex]

The BNR is more "bolt on" than the ATP in that it doesn't need the big mouth TIP and IIRC one line needs to be bent a little - Forzda did do a writeup on it.

As for cranking the car without starting - just floor the accelerator - that will stop the injectors and spark. Not really needed though. Install everything, start and idle the car and jump out to check for leaks.

Let it warm up and keep checking for leaks.

[Toddy22587]

If i remember correctly i just unplugged the harness for the coil packs and then let the engine turn over a few times.

Have you got a new coolant line ready to go & how are you running your boost control?

[speedo]

I am now reading all the thread about the coolant line. Brian from BNR send me a banjo adapter for the coolant line, I think I will need a flexible line to connect to it. For the boost control, I will try the factory EBC first. Thanks a lot guys for all your information, it's very appreciate.

[laxplayermjd]

keep this updated please. i know forzda cut his coolan line and just put a rubber piece in the middle. other than that it bolted right up

[Toddy22587]

I just made a new coolant line with high temp silicone hose and heat reflective wrap and haven't any problems after 10,000k's

If your using the standard boost control on bleed config then you need to put a restrictor pill in the boost source line. I found that 1.6-1.7mm hole worked best

[bmylez]

I know there are certain turbos that don't need to be primed but there are definitely some that do need to be primed. Garrett ball bearing turbos absolutely have to be primed. I did an install one time and my friend assured me that a couple of 10 sec cranks would do the trick. Nope. Toasted the bearings. Got another turbo and had to crank for 25 sec before oil got to the turbo.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by bmylez I know there are certain turbos that don't need to be primed but there are definitely some that do need to be primed. Garrett ball bearing turbos absolutely have to be primed. I did an install one time and my friend assured me that a couple of 10 sec cranks would do the trick. Nope. Toasted the bearings. Got another turbo and had to crank for 25 sec before oil got to the turbo.

Faq #12 from Garret's site:

12. How should I break in a turbo?
A properly assembled and balanced turbo requires no specific break-in procedure. However, for new installations a close inspection is recommended to insure proper installation and function. Common problems are generally associated with leaks* (oil, water, inlet or exhaust).

TurboByGarrett.com - FAQ's

Was this a long time ago? No one here mentioned priming the turbo... a neighbor that dropped by and started wrenching later on asked if I wanted to prime it. I had never heard of that except from him, and then you. I didn't prime it. The inside had some oil in it already, as in one oil side.. I forget which now.. well had a few drips of oil on it. Not sure if that helps speed up the priming or if they used to be different.

*I had a tiny coolant leak on the feed line, and just tightened her up.

[efispeed]

priming the turbo is suggested and very easy to do, better safe than sorry with a very expensive shortcut

[Ziggo]

Can somebody take a picture of the coolant line? I want to make one before I start to install my stage3

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Can somebody take a picture of the coolant line? I want to make one before I start to install my stage3

I'm sure that you are referring to the other coolant line, which for some reason is missing from this extra turbo, but in case you were referring to this one, here are a couple pics.

A couple notes on the other one:

1) You can simply bend it using a mallet.

2) If you do want to fabricate your own, why not just do what LennyB did for his 3071 install?

If you do use your own, you need to find a way to extend the hose a bit, or angle it perfectly.

[speedo]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 I'm sure that you are referring to the other coolant line, which for some reason is missing from this extra turbo, but in case you were referring to this one, here are a couple pics. A couple notes on the other one: 1) You can simply bend it using a mallet. 2) If you do want to fabricate your own, why not just do what LennyB did for his 3071 install? If you do use your own, you need to find a way to extend the hose a bit, or angle it perfectly.

I think I will go with braided hose if I found some of them at lower cost.
Brian send a banjo adapter to use with high temp hose but I'm a little bit scared about it.

[paveltol]

I also have a BNR stage 3 waiting to be installed with the catless downpipe. Please, post a how-to thread on making all the necessary lines and installing this turbo.

[FORZDA 1]

Just cut the OEM pipe about 1.5" from the banjo and use a longer piece of hose to bring it to the block nipple. It isn't some "special" hose/fitting. It is simply the coolant hose, same as the radiator hoses only smaller. I used a spring clamp and wrapped the hose with high temp reflective wrap for a short distance and safety wired around to hold it in place. The whole process is dirt simple. Check out mine in photos

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 Just cut the OEM pipe about 1.5" from the banjo and use a longer piece of hose to bring it to the block nipple. It isn't some "special" hose/fitting. It is simply the coolant hose, same as the radiator hoses only smaller. I used a spring clamp and wrapped the hose with high temp reflective wrap for a short distance and safety wired around to hold it in place. The whole process is dirt simple. Check out mine in photos

Brian included a banjo-barb fitting in the box so I shouldn't have to cut the stock hardline. I just need to buy some of that hose and heat wrap. Could you be specific about what you used?

I am interested in how you got the stock support bracket to attach to the turbo, you mentioned the DNP shifted it slightly.

I assume you have one with a 2.5" inlet, what tip did you use?

I am also very interested in what exactly you used to heat shield around the firewall/cowl/hood

Also, while I am picking your brain, how much did that jet-hot coating run you? I am thinking of going with the swain tech coating, but it's going to be nearly $300 with shipping.

[bmylez]

Yup, that's my plan as well. Just got some high temp rubber hose and some aluminum heat shielding. It will be fine. If you want to get your own banjo fittings, the bolt is M12x1.5 (it's in bnoon's restrictor bolt thread).

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

I would like to know what u used for the heat wrap for the coolant line.

Ziggo, w the 2871 the bracket rest naturally against the turbo. There is enough pressure that it does not tap against it, but is firmly pressed... I do like what Lenny did w his wrapping though.

[bmylez]

You can use this and wrap it around a lot of times: DEI Cool Tape 1 3/8" x 15" 010408 Exhaust Heat Wrap | eBay

Or you can get this (what I'm going to use): Thermo Tec 17062 Thermo-Tec Thermo-Flex Insulation

[FORZDA 1]

@ Ziggo... I have the Cobb TIP on the larger Stage 3 inlet. Works just fine. You will likley need to elongate the lower turbo support bracket bolt hole to get the bolt through it into the bottom of the turbo when using the DNP mani. The hose is 5/16" high pressure fuel hose from the auto parts store.

No need to "prime" the turbo with oil. It comes from BNR already lubed with plugs in the oil holes. It will fill immediately when the oil pressure comes up. It gets a plenty of oil pressure which is one reason the OEM turbo smokes so easliy.

Also, here is the HP Heat Shield Tape that I've used for many years and recommend as the "best". I used the 4" wide to insulate the firewall and a short piece of the 1.5" to wrap the coolant line. If you clean the surface (I use alcohol) good it will stick and last for years. Start at the bottom of your work and overlap from above so any fluids don't run underneath it to compromise the "stick". I also use it on the bottom of the TMIC tank at the rear section over the exh mani. Damn, I'm telling all my "secrets"! LOL

Heat shield tape | Heatshield Products

I have also used the thinner foil tape to touchup scrapes on the heat shields around the PTO on the Speed6. The thicker tape is a better insulator for large coverage areas, but it isn't as good to stick and cover small stand-alone spots as the thinner foil. You can cut the foil into a small circle or other odd shapes.

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/pr...oil-tape/68/22

[paveltol]

Originally Posted by FORZDA 1 @ Ziggo... I have the Cobb TIP on the larger Stage 3 inlet. Works just fine. You will likley need to elongate the lower turbo support bracket bolt hole to get the bolt through it into the bottom of the turbo when using the DNP mani. The hose is 5/16" high pressure fuel hose from the auto parts store. Also, here is the HP Heat Shield Tape that I've used for many years and recommend as the "best". I used the 4" wide to insulate the firewall and a short piece of the 1.5" to wrap the coolant line. If you clean the surface (I use alcohol) good it will stick and last for years. Start at the bottom of your work and overlap from above so any fluids don't run underneath it to compromise the "stick". I also use it on the bottom of the TMIC tank at the rear section over the exh mani. Damn, I'm telling all my "secrets"! LOL Heat shield tape | Heatshield Products I have also used the thinner foil tape to touchup scrapes on the heat shields around the PTO on the Speed6. The thicker tape is a better insulator for large coverage areas, but it isn't as good to stick and cover small stand-alone spots as the thinner foil. You can cut the foil into a small circle or other odd shapes. Cool Foil Tape | Heatshield Products

Great writeup!

[speedo]

Hey Forzda,
I install the turbo today and have a problem.
The oem WGA have an inlet and outlet for boost and the upgrade one on the BNR have only one. How do you route the line.

[dooderek]

sir

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

The missing line attached to the turbo is the boost source. You can make another boost source by teeing it off of the small vacuum line that goes from your bpv to intake manifold (I think that is where it connects).

Now the question is, did you get a 3 port boost control solenoid? I think that it is usually recommended to get one when going big turbo if you aren't using mbc or ebc.

I will go see if I can find how to attach it to the stock solenoid... I think I have it right in my head but want to verify it... Hopefully in the mean time, someone will beat me to it.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by speedo Hey Forzda, I install the turbo today and have a problem. The oem WGA have an inlet and outlet for boost and the upgrade one on the BNR have only one. How do you route the line.

BNRs don't require a new boost source, CK is confusing it with the ATP process.

For the stock ECBS you need to Tee the line between the boost source and the WGA, one tee goes to the WGA, the other to the solenoid.

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Ok, so you only have two ports on the stock solenoid, so if it will work at all, it will be as follows i believe:

For a boost source, you T off the bpv to intake manifold connection, and then make another T on the vacuum line that connects the solenoid to the WGA... That is the only way that I can think of that this would work with stock solenoid.

IF you do have 3 port, it is simple. T off bpv/manifold vac line for boost source, and then just make sure you put each vac line on the right nipple on the ebcs.

Originally Posted by Ziggo BNRs don't require a new boost source, CK is confusing it with the ATP process. For the stock ECBS you need to Tee the line between the boost source and the WGA, one tee goes to the WGA, the other to the solenoid.

Oh shit, sorry to waste the space I figured all upgraded iwg turbos were the same. My bad.

[speedo]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Ok, so you only have two ports on the stock solenoid, so if it will work at all, it will be as follows i believe: For a boost source, you T off the bpv to intake manifold connection, and then make another T on the vacuum line that connects the solenoid to the WGA... That is the only way that I can think of that this would work with stock solenoid. IF you do have 3 port, it is simple. T off bpv/manifold vac line for boost source, and then just make sure you put each vac line on the right nipple on the ebcs. Oh shit, sorry to waste the space I figured all upgraded iwg turbos were the same. My bad.

I'm a little bit confuse.

Here is the OEM arrangement
Compressor outlet to WGA inlet --> WGA outlet to EBC inlet --> EBC outlet to TIP inlet

If I take the way of Ziggo:
Compressor outlet to WGA inlet, I have to put a T on this line and run it to EBC inlet than run the EBC outlet to TIp inlet

Is that correct?

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

Originally Posted by speedo I'm a little bit confuse. Here is the OEM arrangement Compressor outlet to WGA inlet --> WGA outlet to EBC inlet --> EBC outlet to TIP inlet If I take the way of Ziggo: Compressor outlet to WGA inlet, I have to put a T on this line and run it to EBC inlet than run the EBC outlet to TIp inlet Is that correct?

Yeah, ziggo is right (always default to ziggo over me anyway), I thought it was like the stock set up, but when you said u were having issues, i figured it was like ATP, but I was wrong.

I think I had the right idea though???

[bmylez]

Hope this helps.

[speedo]

Originally Posted by bmylez Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot guys!
Your help is very appreciate.

Now I have to buy another heat sheild that goes above the dowpipe cause I detroy it when I remove the OEM downpipe.

[Toddy22587]

Originally Posted by bmylez Hope this helps.

This drawing is correct but for it to work you need to have a restrictor pill in the line between the turbo and the t-piece otherwise you wont see anything over about 12psi. 1.6-1.7mm hole in the restrictor pill worked for me

[Ziggo]

Your intake is very phallic, but the diagram is correct.

[Ziggo]

You had the right idea, but the BNR turbos come with a boost source in the same place as stock.

[paveltol]

So how does the car with this Stg3 feel? Does it pull harder? Still have mine waiting for setup, can't help getting more info..

[Toddy22587]

Originally Posted by paveltol So how does the car with this Stg3 feel? Does it pull harder? Still have mine waiting for setup, can't help getting more info..

I'm still waiting to get my tune sorted out. I would say that in its current state (partially tuned) it does pull harder then the stock turbo but i imagine that if i had a similar tune on my stock turbo it would be much the same. I dont think i'm seeing any major benifit from the stage 3 at the moment because i'm only running 18psi.

[speedo]

I don't understand "Bleed setup"

I will running stage 2 maps for accesport with stocl solenoid, do I need restrictor pill, if yes where should I buy it

Thanks.

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by speedo I don't understand "Bleed setup" I will running stage 2 maps for accesport with stocl solenoid, do I need restrictor pill, if yes where should I buy it Thanks.

Bleed setup means the boost solenoid routes air pressure coming from the turbo away from the wastegate so that the wastegate doesn't open. The air that the solenoid "bleeds" away gets dumped into the intake. A manual boost controller, instead of bleeding air away from the wastegate, simply restricts the amount of air pressure that can travel through itself that gets to the wastegate.

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Faq #12 from Garret's site: 12. How should I break in a turbo? A properly assembled and balanced turbo requires no specific break-in procedure. However, for new installations a close inspection is recommended to insure proper installation and function. Common problems are generally associated with leaks* (oil, water, inlet or exhaust). TurboByGarrett.com - FAQ's Was this a long time ago? No one here mentioned priming the turbo... a neighbor that dropped by and started wrenching later on asked if I wanted to prime it. I had never heard of that except from him, and then you. I didn't prime it. The inside had some oil in it already, as in one oil side.. I forget which now.. well had a few drips of oil on it. Not sure if that helps speed up the priming or if they used to be different. *I had a tiny coolant leak on the feed line, and just tightened her up.

Sometimes turbos are shipped with oil inside them with the oil ports capped off. In that case, a lot of people just bolt up and turn on the car. All I'm saying is, better safe than sorry. I already killed one turbo because I was told to turn over the car for just a little bit. I did 3 sessions of 10 sec. Found out it took 25 sec to get oil all the way to the turbo...

[Toddy22587]

Originally Posted by speedo I don't understand "Bleed setup" I will running stage 2 maps for accesport with stocl solenoid, do I need restrictor pill, if yes where should I buy it Thanks.

All bleed mode setups need a restrictor pill. I just used a welding tip from work, already had a 1.2mm hole so i just had to drill it out a bit. the outside diameter was about 6mm so it easily pushed inside my silicone hose

[speedo]

I've finish the install, everything seem correct. Toddy was right when he said that I will not see my boost over 12psi. I'm hitting 15psi but I should hit 18-19psi with the stage2+SF+FMIC. I will try to find a welding tip since I receive the grimmspeed EBC.
In the same time, does anybody have experience with calibration of the AP with the grimmspeed EBC.