BNR StageIII Numbers?

[SkwidKid007]

There maybe a thread on this subject already, and if there is I apologize... however, as the title says, does anyone have any numbers posted up from this turbo? And what are the mods?

ive heard numbers upwards of 380whp? I just want to know if this is true... Im in the process of purchasing one...

thanks!

[dsmluck]

I think the 380whp you are talking about was on a Saturn Sky Redline. I guess they use the same K04. That is what I was told when I called BNR. As for the MZR platform I don't think there have been any big numbers. If you are looking for numbers in the upper 300's than you need to look at a 3071 or 3076 honestly. I was going to pull the trigger on a BNR but ended up buying a used GT3071r.

[SkwidKid007]

Ok thanks! I ry don't want to spend 1800 : /

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by SkwidKid007 Ok thanks! I ry don't want to spend 1800 : /

You could grab a used one. Cheaper than a BNR and much more power.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by SkwidKid007 Ok thanks! I ry don't want to spend 1800 : /

You can hook up a brand new 3071/76 + ewg for $1,800. I'm done buying used parts (except for mounts and that kind of shit). I've settled on the 3076 after driving my buddy's ms6 w/ a 3076. Doesn't start spooling until 3,500 but hits 20 PSI at 4K, and your literally at redline 2 seconds later . You want to keep load off the rods at low rpms anyways. Point being--> 3076 is fucking perfect. Drives like the car should imo.

Just make sure to do all your hw, and have all necessary supporting mods (CPE fuel pump, etc...), and find a good tuner. Take your time with your research in that dept... lots of nobs out there, and our ECUs are schizophrenic.

[i8urgti]

i think the bnr stage 3 shuold be capable of over 300. people are exceeding 300 on the k04, for speed3's atleast. granted i have no proof to make this statement, its all speculation.

[SkwidKid007]

show me were to grab one of those...

i would imagine a BNR making well over 300whp... i mean hell, like ole dude said, the stock turbo is cable of over 300whp.... id like to see 380, but ill settle for 350 for now...

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by SkwidKid007 show me were to grab one of those... i would imagine a BNR making well over 300whp... i mean hell, like ole dude said, the stock turbo is cable of over 300whp.... id like to see 380, but ill settle for 350 for now...

I found one within a day of posting for one.

[zx2man]

Forzda made 299 whp @ 20 psi iirc. That is on a ms6, and he was having some engine issues. When bnr stage 3 came out, it was spose to be good for 380 whp. I have always doubted this in a realistic basis.

If your looking for a upgrade over stock, more hp for say auto x setup, or just because..then its a option. I would believe with full bolt ons and a protune 19-22 psi, you could expect 300-340 whp on ms3. You could run up to 25 psi with meth if you wanted..might flirt with 350ish and make butload of tq, but at that point, id rather go 2871 and make that figure more easily.

Really depends on your goals man, if 300 whp dd is good enough, stick with stock turbo,full bolt ons and run meth-good tune, call it a day. If you want spend 1300 dollars for 25-40 more whp then BNR will work.

[reconbygod12]

330whp around there is probably what your going to get...you have the fmic so thats one of the biggest keys i personally believe with the mazdaspeed3

[Tech/Sales@EM]

My question is why are people running such low boost pressure. I would expect the BNR to be efficient in the spike to 24 hold at 22 or somewhere in that range.

[SkwidKid007]

ok... im leaning more towards the 3071R... it seems like the bnr maxed is 330-350 with meth... i dont want to keep up with meth, which is why i just sold my kit...

with the 3071 i can tune for say 16-18lbs, make the same power... i can later build and make more power, bc the turbo will let me... i dont want to have to buy one turbo and it be maxed out to make the same power the 3071 will make on a much lower boost level...

i was just aiming towards the bnr bc the guy selling it is a really nice guy and he was working with me on the deal...

I think the BNR's never really go over 20 or so lbs is bc of our MAP sensor not being able to read above 22lbs... maybe ppl dont see the power being worth the money... Not when you can get a 30xxR and make a good bit more power on what the map sensor will already read... IMO

[SkwidKid007]

Thanks bro. Fuel pump is on the way, I ordered the PTP, which will be professionally installed. I'm going with the BNR Stage III, which will be here Tuesday. The reason being is bc no one REALLY has any conclusive numbers on the turbo from the research I've done. I figure I'll get it all set up, then the car is going to Kalvin at Cobb in Plano,Tx. What better tuner to take ours cars to right? So when he starts tuning it, then puts up final numbers, I won't have a reason to doubt his tune.

As for supporting mods It has everything. HPFP,FMIC,3"TBE,SRI. I just need a much better flowing exhaust mani. And I'll probably wait and do that when I'm ready for a 3076 build.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by SkwidKid007 Thanks bro. Fuel pump is on the way, I ordered the PTP, which will be professionally installed. I'm going with the BNR Stage III, which will be here Tuesday. The reason being is bc no one REALLY has any conclusive numbers on the turbo from the research I've done. I figure I'll get it all set up, then the car is going to Kalvin at Cobb in Plano,Tx. What better tuner to take ours cars to right? So when he starts tuning it, then puts up final numbers, I won't have a reason to doubt his tune. As for supporting mods It has everything. HPFP,FMIC,3"TBE,SRI. I just need a much better flowing exhaust mani. And I'll probably wait and do that when I'm ready for a 3076 build.

No problem. I would STRONGLY advise you to NOT get the PTP pump. I had one that broke in great, and held almost 2,000 PSI for over two months. The problem is, the relief valve is rated for like 1,882 PSI (before it opens and bleeds pressure off the fuel rail and back to the pump). So basically, you have the relief valve constantly opening to get rid of the excess pressure. So, after two months, I was tuning my ebcs and taking some WOT logs when the relief valve shit the bed under wot, and my fuel pressure plummeted. I'm VERY LUCKY I didn't blow my engine. I just happen to be paying very close attention, and actually caught the failure in a log.

After that, my idle pressure was only ~200 PSI (should be ~450 ish), however, I held part throttle pressure great, but when I went WOT, it would plummet. A replacement PTP pump--> Same thing. My money back + a new Mazda pump --> same thing. Brand new CPE pump --> same thing. New fuel rail --> problem solved and CPE pump works great. Problem is, it took over 3 months and well over $1K to find the problem (oh, and I had to replace my cam follower too, but that was cheap). There were NO codes, and you couldn't tell by normal driving. I was watching my DH non-stop, and literally only drove the car 3 times or 4 times (to a friends house to work on) in as many months.

I was the first stiff that this happened too (without the engine blowing anyways), and it took the best minds on here a while to figure it out. After that, BMorrisJ on here did the same thing by upping his fuel pressure too much in ATR... and it blew out this relief valve. I cheaped out by $250 when I got the PTP pump instead of the CPE pump, and it ended up costing me like 5x that, and I missed the entire summer driving my car. Don't make the same mistake as me.

There was a lengthy thread on this, but unfortunately it was one of the ones that was lost when the site crashed some months ago. I don't care if they say there are "improvements" to the PTP pumps... keep that shit off your car man. Some people have no problems with them and swear by them... but it's your GD fuel pump, and not worth the risk.

[SkwidKid007]

I understand that. Money is already spent and I have money for a motor build and what not. So if I out it in and it's a fail then that's my excuse to build. I'm going to give them a shot, bc when I had my g5, we had this problem with a diff company. The first to buy were unfortunate. After that the problem got fixed and the company regained respect.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by SkwidKid007 I understand that. Money is already spent and I have money for a motor build and what not. So if I out it in and it's a fail then that's my excuse to build. I'm going to give them a shot, bc when I had my g5, we had this problem with a diff company. The first to buy were unfortunate. After that the problem got fixed and the company regained respect.

As you wish . It's cheaper to build a block without holes in it though... just saying. Best of luck, and I hope it works out. Like I said, many people had no problems... but some had catastrophic failures. Well, if things don't go well, just make sure to get the CPE pump or do the KMD internals, and make sure they're installed right. GL w/ everything.

[zx2man]

I read your previous posts Dougefresh and glad to hear your car is up and running. But I have couple questions.

1. You said that when you raised your fuel psi on your pump, then your relief valve bled off excessive fuel and that fucked your fuel rail?

2. You then tried cp-e pump, and then same thing happened. But prablem was solved when you replaced your fuel rail. So....doesnt that mean your fuel rail was garbage? cause your prablem happened with BOTH ptp and cp-e pumps? Just trying to clearly understand where your coming from, thank you.

[SkwidKid007]

Yea thanks man... I understand that... but from the research i did a lot of the pumps that went bad were replaced with more pumps that had the same problem... Ppl with newer pumps have no complaints *correct me if im wrong, this is just what ive read so far*... So what im getting out of this is ptp released some bad pumps, big woop many big companies have had a fail somewhere along the line, and the bad pumps were then replaced with more bad pumps bc the problem wasnt fixed... then after time the problem was worked out and fixed... I maybe saying this bc im hoping for the best, but that is the way it seems...

The internals, like i said, will be Pro installed just for that added security... Im seriously hoping for the best! hahah...

[R.MS3]

Can't you control fuel pressure with the AP now? So if the pump is doing 2k psi, can't you limit to 1850?

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by zx2man I read your previous posts Dougefresh and glad to hear your car is up and running. But I have couple questions. 1. You said that when you raised your fuel psi on your pump, then your relief valve bled off excessive fuel and that fucked your fuel rail? 2. You then tried cp-e pump, and then same thing happened. But prablem was solved when you replaced your fuel rail. So....doesnt that mean your fuel rail was garbage? cause your prablem happened with BOTH ptp and cp-e pumps? Just trying to clearly understand where your coming from, thank you.

Thanks man, to respond:

No, I didn't raise fuel pressure... this was last spring, before the new ATR even came out. I replaced my stock fuel pump, which was no longer keeping up with the stage 2 fuel demand, and bought a PTP pump. My fuel rail was fine until a two months after the PTP pump, and then it shit out. I (and some others) suspect that the higher pressure being held by the PTP pump (~1,950PSI) under wot, which is greater than the PSI required for the releif valve to open (~1880) means the relief valve was opening a LOT. So, it got worn outaa quick, and failed. With the relief valve now F'd up, NO pump will hold pressure properly, so yes, the relief valve (on the fuel rail) became garbage. The hpfp can feed all the PSI it wants to the rail, but if the relief valve on the rail is faulty and bleeding off pressure, you're screwed. I hope makes sense. Keep in mind I wasn't the only person that had this problem... other people bought a PTP pump, and this exact issue, and went through a bunch of replacement pumps, and I spoke with John @ PTP at the time and HE HAD NO CLUE WHY. We finally figured it out over here. I Think that says a lot.

Originally Posted by SkwidKid007 Yea thanks man... I understand that... but from the research i did a lot of the pumps that went bad were replaced with more pumps that had the same problem... Ppl with newer pumps have no complaints *correct me if im wrong, this is just what ive read so far*... So what im getting out of this is ptp released some bad pumps, big woop many big companies have had a fail somewhere along the line, and the bad pumps were then replaced with more bad pumps bc the problem wasnt fixed... then after time the problem was worked out and fixed... I maybe saying this bc im hoping for the best, but that is the way it seems... The internals, like i said, will be Pro installed just for that added security... Im seriously hoping for the best! hahah...

Well, I was off the grid for awhile. Last I heard PTP filed for bankruptcy protection. Someone told me that "no they're in business," but that doesn't mean they didn't file and get some of their debt erased. IDK and IDC, lol. They're nice enough people and service was great, but I'd rather buy the best pump I can and have the guy taking my order tell me to go fuck myself, lol. Also see above response.

Originally Posted by R.MS3 Can't you control fuel pressure with the AP now? So if the pump is doing 2k psi, can't you limit to 1850?

IDK... I haven't been around, and still haven't even used the new ATR. I'd search some threads for more info . Sorry I couldn't be more help there.

[m4tic]

Originally Posted by R.MS3 Can't you control fuel pressure with the AP now? So if the pump is doing 2k psi, can't you limit to 1850?

stock pressure commands 1650psi... i guess you can dial back the stock tables by 100psi.. any body want to try it?

[Rayd]

One of my fellow aussie MPS'ers will have some numbers for his BNR III on the 14th of this month, should be interesting!

[Toddy22587]

Originally Posted by Rayd One of my fellow aussie MPS'ers will have some numbers for his BNR III on the 14th of this month, should be interesting!

That would be me. Dont get to excited though, only tuning at 18psi for now

[SkwidKid007]

Thats around the same time I'm tuning. I def want to compare numbers and mods.

[Tech/Sales@EM]

Hopefully we can get some dyno plots and numbers and such posted in the first post after some numbers are available. Maybe a BNR turbo thread should be created compiling the different turbos and what they are producing.

[SkwidKid007]

Originally Posted by Toddy22587 That would be me. Dont get to excited though, only tuning at 18psi for now

ok... im going to tell cobb to do whatever they feel comfortable with... i really want to tune for 21lbs though... we shall see

Originally Posted by MazdaMadness Hopefully we can get some dyno plots and numbers and such posted in the first post after some numbers are available. Maybe a BNR turbo thread should be created compiling the different turbos and what they are producing.

yea man def... When i get my dyno graph, if something isnt already started, ill start a thread and post mods...

[rudydecc]

I'm interested in seeing what these numbers are going to look like.

[SkwidKid007]

Originally Posted by rudydecc I'm interested in seeing what these numbers are going to look like.

From what i hear, dont expect big numbers... i know im not...

[Toddy22587]

Originally Posted by SkwidKid007 From what i hear, dont expect big numbers... i know im not...

Just out of interest what are you expecting?

[SkwidKid007]

Originally Posted by Toddy22587 Just out of interest what are you expecting?

I'm hoping for 350. But I don't expect but barely over 300. Well see what happens.

[i8urgti]

i am definitely going to keep and eye on this thread. i know my speed6 will make lower power, but at least i will have a base to go from, especially since i don't want to run meth yet either.

[forever_skyline]

looking forward for the results since my turbo dont feel 100% and I am looking it to by a new one...

[SkwidKid007]

Shipping says turbo will be in tomorrow... Depending on the time it comes it ill have it on the car... Ill try to take pics

[DSIT995]

Enjoy it.....

[SkwidKid007]

In the process of buying a PG manifold... Man, i have to stop buying stuff! Does anyone know if the speed 3 and speed 6 use the same ex. manifold?

[fastdreams]

I can't really argue the merits of the BNR. I just put mine in last week, haven't dyno'd or tuned it yet.

On paper, it looks good. Flows slightly more than K04, which is exactly what I'm looking for. A slight shift in the power band, losing a bit of low end punch (a good thing, the K04 tuned has too much low end for my use) in trade for a bit more top end power and hopefully far more average power.

It was a bit expensive but, Bryan has a great rep and it's a good product. If not going for maximum power, I think it's a great option.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the folks making >300whp with the K04 are tuned heavily, and really overworking the turbo hard. That's fine but I need longevity for track work. Spinning it that hard creates a lot of heat. In Texas heat while at the track, it's just too much, start losing power because it's so damn hot. Meth is a good option I suppose, I haven't ventured there yet, probably won't because I like to keep things simple.

I want consistent reasonable power to redline.

The bigger better turbos make sense in most turbo cars, but in the mazdaspeeds it seems to open a can of worms. Maybe they're all solved now with the hard work of you guys? Fuel pumps, mysteriously blown engines, injector seals, ECU heavy handedness. Seems that's all worked out for the most part. But I wait for what's next.

Also in regards to going with other big turbos, aren't you out the cost of a new exhaust manifold and downpipe? Shits a lot more once you add it up, and I wouldn't buy a used turbo unless I was selling the car. Or is the ATP bolt on a good option?

[SkwidKid007]

Dude you couldnt have said it better... After i started tallying up the cost for an externally gated manifold, EWG, new boost controller *which i wanted to run the tru boost like i used to*, more work into installing everything adding the to install cost, i decided to back down for now... Not to mention im kind of in hurry for Import Face off in a few weeks...

What tune are you running? Do you mind sharing with me until i can get my car to cobb? I called BNR and he said they dont offer base tunes bc of the liability....

Originally Posted by fastdreams I can't really argue the merits of the BNR. I just put mine in last week, haven't dyno'd or tuned it yet. On paper, it looks good. Flows slightly more than K04, which is exactly what I'm looking for. A slight shift in the power band, losing a bit of low end punch (a good thing, the K04 tuned has too much low end for my use) in trade for a bit more top end power and hopefully far more average power. It was a bit expensive but, Bryan has a great rep and it's a good product. If not going for maximum power, I think it's a great option. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the folks making >300whp with the K04 are tuned heavily, and really overworking the turbo hard. That's fine but I need longevity for track work. Spinning it that hard creates a lot of heat. In Texas heat while at the track, it's just too much, start losing power because it's so damn hot. Meth is a good option I suppose, I haven't ventured there yet, probably won't because I like to keep things simple. I want consistent reasonable power to redline. The bigger better turbos make sense in most turbo cars, but in the mazdaspeeds it seems to open a can of worms. Maybe they're all solved now with the hard work of you guys? Fuel pumps, mysteriously blown engines, injector seals, ECU heavy handedness. Seems that's all worked out for the most part. But I wait for what's next. Also in regards to going with other big turbos, aren't you out the cost of a new exhaust manifold and downpipe? Shits a lot more once you add it up, and I wouldn't buy a used turbo unless I was selling the car. Or is the ATP bolt on a good option?

[fastdreams]

Originally Posted by SkwidKid007 Dude you couldnt have said it better... After i started tallying up the cost for an externally gated manifold, EWG, new boost controller *which i wanted to run the tru boost like i used to*, more work into installing everything adding the to install cost, i decided to back down for now... Not to mention im kind of in hurry for Import Face off in a few weeks... What tune are you running? Do you mind sharing with me until i can get my car to cobb? I called BNR and he said they dont offer base tunes bc of the liability....

Shit I'm using the same tune as before the turbo, latest OTS stage 2+fmic. I would not recommend it, though it's working well for me pussy footing around. Need to hurry up and get tuned. I'm not an endless logger and tweaker, I respect these guys immensely but I'm just a driver, and wrench to save money. Don't have the time to fuck around with it constantly. I'll probably blow this car up at some point though.

Turbo comes on strong even at mid throttle when I gotta merge...hard to stay out of it. Putting around at less throttle and low RPM's its easy to stay in vacuum. I like that the turbo doens't boost as quickly for that reason. I shouldn't be letting it boost at all I guess, but once the ECU learned the changes it's surprisingly smooth and runs ok. I need to log badly to make sure it's not dangerous.

Any recommended AP tuners in Texas? Trey Cobb told me to see a guy at the Plano facility that is good with the speeds.

[SkwidKid007]

Thats where im going... the guys name is Calvin...
neil.bywater@cobbtuning.com Thats Neil Bywater's email address... he does all the tuning arrangements... I strongly suggest letting Calvin tune your car... From what i hear ppl make long trips just to let him tune... hes good... ive heard nothing but positives... Not to mention, Calvins daily bucket is a MS3...

[speedms6]

glad to hear you guys are both going with this turbo, mine is smoking and i'd eventually like to upgrade a little but as stated, i dont want the hassle of the ewg etc..i know i'd have to go get an ap, but i'll just sell the hypertech, looking forward to seeing the numbers you two get.

quesiton on the install, i know the bnrIII has the bigger compressor housing, what has to be done with the oil lines and i assume a new t.i.p. would be needed too, can you shed any light on this for me?