BT MS6 - Go GTX30 OR GTX35

[WWPearlMS6]

UPDATE 5-27-12
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Racebuilt Fabrication should have some big updates in the next few weeks on my Car!

UPDATE 3-20-12
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Car has become the official sponsored MS6 at Racebuilt Fabrication
Dropped off from CT TO Florida !

UPDATE 3-3-12
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Orderered & Waiting to Install the following:

GTX3576R T3 Twinscroll Turbo w/ .82 Trim
Tial (Black) 44MM Wastegate & Springs
ACT Clutch Kit - 6 Pad Spring Disc w/ Streetlite Flywheel
Treadstone TR1035 Intercooler
Racebuilt Fabrication T3 Twinscroll Tubular Un-Equal Length Manifold
Racebuilt Fabrication V-Band To V-Band (ATP DP->RBF Manifold) Adapter

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- 06 MS6 BUILD:
Whitewater Pearl Mica Exterior, White/Black Interior - All Possible Factory Options

-Engine:
CP-E Injector Seals (Waiting to be installed)
Denso ITV-24 Spark Plugs
PT-Performance Rail Valve Set (Waiting to be installed)
Autotech Fuel Pump HPFP Internals
Odyssey PC680MJT Dry Battery & Tray
Twin Tial (Black/White) 44MM Wastegate & Springs (Waiting to be installed)
PT-Performance Windage Tray & BS Delete (Waiting to be installed)
GTX3576R T3 Twinscroll Turbo w/ .82 Trim (Waiting to be installed)
ACT Clutch Kit - 6 Pad Spring Disc w/ Streetlite Flywheel (Waiting to be installed)

-Exhaust:
Racebuilt Fabrication Downpipe (Waiting On Final Developments)
Racebuilt Fabrication Catback Exhaust (Waiting On Final Developments)
Racebuilt Fabrication T3 Twinscroll Tubular Un-Equal Length Manifold (Waiting to be installed)

-Electronics:
COBB Accessport
Grimmspeed EBC
VEI Digital Boost Gauge
Valentine 1 Radar Detector
Parrot Bluetooth/Music Streaming

-Intake/Intercooling:
CP-E Inlet Pipe
CP-E HKS BOV Kit
Racebuilt Fabrication Intake Manifold (Waiting on Final Developments)
Corksport Top Mounted Ram Air Intake
Racebuilt Fabrication FMIC Kit w/ BIG Mouth FMIC (Waiting On Final Developments)

-Drivetrain:
CP-E Engine Mount
CP-E Rear Diff Mount
TWM Stage 1&2 Short Shifter
JBR Shift Plate/Solid Shifter Bushings

-Suspension/Brakes:
DGR Coilover Kit
Whiteline Rear Sway Bar
H&R 15mm Hubcentric Wheel Spacers (Waiting to be installed)
Premium Black Dimpled & Slotted Brake Rotors (Waiting to be installed)
Hawk (HPS) High Performance Street Pads (Waiting to be installed)
Brembo’s - EVO X Big Brake Kit (350x32mm) (Waiting to be installed)

Exterior/Interior (Visual):
Corksport LED DRL
Corksport Interior Lighting Kit
Redline Tuning Hood QuickLift
JDM & CAR-LED Internal Tailights
JDM Electric Folding Mirrors W/ Signals
Racebuilt Fabrication Side Body Logo Decals
Auto-EXE Replica Lip Kit
19x8.5 W/ 45 Offset Advan RZ Racing Wheels wrapped w/ 235-35’s

Former Mods:
CP-E Cold Air Intake
ATP GT3076R w EWG
Corksport Ram Air & FMIC
ATP Downpipe
Corksport Catback
Black Powdercoated Stock Wheels

To Be Bought/Done Soon:
Tial Q BOV
LED Strips In Tail Lights
Carbon Fiber Vinyl Wrap Car
Ceramic Coating of Manifold
Powdercoat Brembo’s Pearl White
Heat Dissipation Coating of Intercooler
AIT DSR Racing CF Window Spoiler
Staged Cams
Twin FX35 Retrofit Headlights With Four CCFL Halos, Integrated Foglight & LED Strips

Goals:
500 AWHP/TQ – Attained by; Fully Bolted w/ GTX35 On Stock Motor/Block, No Meth
650-750 AWHP/TQ - Attained by; Fully Bolted w/ GTX35 On Built Motor/Block & Fuel Solution

========2006 MS6 Bulletproof Motor Build List – Go Big Or Go Home========= (When I Build)
MZR Fully Built: 8.5:1
MZR Long Block
5-Layer/Multi Layer Head Gasket
ARP Main Stud Kit
ARP Head Stud Kit
Carillo Pro H-Beam Rods
Performance Main Bearing
cp-e™ Tri-Metal Rod Bearing
cp-e™ Precision Spec Machining
cp-e™ Precision Engineered Special DI Stage III Pistons
CP-E ERL Sleeve Kit 90mm (2.4L Bore)
Cams
Driveshaft Shop Rear Axles
Fueling Solution/Injectors

~JaKe

[Chimmike]

you're not being specific enough in regards to the turbo buddy. GTX3076 will make over 500whp. GTX3582 will be overkill for your stock motor for a while.
400awhp with no meth and no e85 ain't gonna be the easiest thing, since you no haz supplemental fueling.

[pinkcheese]

I'd suggest sticking to the GTX30 You can easily make all those power goals and not hate ilfe because your spool comes on to late.

[crazyp]

Im happy with my gtx3076.

I know @jmhinkle has had both and went back to a GT30

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by chimmike you're not being specific enough in regards to the turbo buddy. GTX3076 will make over 500whp. GTX3582 will be overkill for your stock motor for a while. 400awhp with no meth and no e85 ain't gonna be the easiest thing, since you no haz supplemental fueling.

What do you need me to expand upon regarding my turbo buddy?
Here's A Flow Chart of the GTX3076:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...-1&2&3turb.jpg
Here's A Flow Chart of The GTX3582:
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...68-allturb.jpg
What I gather is that the GTX3076 w/ .82 Trim is nearly identical to the GTX3582 w/ .63 trim. So wouldn't the best compromise of turbo be going with the 35, leaving me the room to grow?

I will one way or another be seeking immediately a fueling option whether its meth, E85, or an alternative that DJ is building so lets assume that not an issue because I will do one of them.

All other things will be equal because regardless of the turbo I land on, I will get a twinscroll steedspeed manifold, with a Tial 44mm wastegate.

My assumption is it will only spool 200 rpm's later than a 30, is this valid? Maybe someone with this setup or knowledge of it could chime in? If that's the case I think the benefit (higher boost) outweighs the cost (200rpms later spool)
@doubleflusher - Input Please?
@jmhinkle - Any thoughts?
@essejkcamraw - Any Advice?

[MazdaGaragePat]

I don't recommend to run GTX3582R with your current mods and stock engine cause it would be useless.
As well as GT3076GTX w tiny 0.82 T3 divided housing.
Better try GTX with larger housing like T3 1.06 divided or go for turbo w smaller compressor like GT3076R w 0.82 T3 divided.

[doubleflusher]

I wouldn't run a .63.

I have a .63 and I'm going to swap it out for a .82 very soon.

My spool, however, is retarded. I make 30+psi by 3900 RPM.

Some have run a 35R or equivalent on the stock block with some success. It's all in the tune.

I have a built block so I just crank the boost.

If I were to do it all over again, I'd have the HTA3685R with a .82. Maybe even a Tial turbine housing.

If you stay stock block, the GTX3076 or HTA3076 will make you very happy.

[greg08]

What if you have a fully built block? u think i could autox a gt35? i doubt it. ill just go for the hta3076r or the gtx.

[WWPearlMS6]

Really interesting find...
PERRIN has new toys... GTX results inside! - Page 7 - NASIOC

And a GTX3576R?
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...Category_Code=

[essejkcamraw]

I'm completely happy with how the 35r spools, on a really mild tune i was hitting 22psi by 4000rpm. honestly I think the 35r is the perfect turbo for this car. I had no issues with how my car drove in traffic, and LOVED it on the highway.


I'll likely make the swap to a gtx35r before long. but that will be a little while out. I need to get my car back together first haha

[helmetface]

GTX3071/6r is all anyone needs really...anything beyond that ... is .. well .. rocket status.(and better be built)

[mason]

i think if you go twin scroll you need a T-4 flange (any turbo). or possible a 1.06 A/R housing T3 with a 30R turbo.

if you go single scroll id go with the tial housing all V-band housing.

if i could do it over again/ GTX35R TIAL turbine housing.

[jmhinkle]

I absolutely hated the 35r if you do any daily driving. Sure it was a rocket up top, but getting there sucked. The difference of going from a .78 ts30R to a .82 ts35r was all negative to me. Huge difference in spool right in the mid rpm torque range that the 6 needs. I wouldn't dare try to jump in traffic on the 35 because it had no balls down low. Gtx30r seems to be pure win. No bigger than .82 hot side. Anyone that says the stock block can't handle certain power, boost or turbo should be shot in the face. We have not found that limit yet. The only thing the stock rods are weak to is flooding, but so is a built motor.

[sLow6]

good info on here, i'm debating the same thing, i think i will end up going with the gtx30 b/c of spool time.

[WWPearlMS6]

Just Ordered the following:

GTX3576R T3 Twinscroll Turbo w/ .82 Trim
Tial (Black) 44MM Wastegate & Springs
ACT Clutch Kit - 6 Pad Spring Disc w/ Streetlite Flywheel
Treadstone TR1035 Intercooler
Racebuilt Fabrication T3 Twinscroll Tubular Un-Equal Length Manifold
Racebuilt Fabrication V-Band To V-Band (ATP DP->RBF Manifold) Adapter

I believe we should sacrifice....Nothing.
Anticipating same spool time as the guys rockin the GTX3076's but with hopefully more Big Power potential like the Big Boy 35's known for
Found this article about the latest and greatest GTX3576 pretty interesting. Seemed like a win-win for me! Will be making new thread in BT Build section soon.. Stay tuned....

[TriO]

Holy shit sounds beasty

[Tabasco69]

A smart guy would figure out the ve of his engine and install a tc to match it......just saying.

Imo a 3076 is as big as I would go.

TS is pointless with anything smaller then a gt35, the whole premise behind ts is to optimise spool, to have your cake and eat it too, 30 series has no problems in that department, they have good mid and topend.....go with a gt35 and prius's will be beating up on you on in stop in go traffic, the engine cannot create enough energy to spool that monster up quickly from a dead stop unless it were ts. My opinion!?

[h.h.sk1nny]

[jmhinkle]

Partially agree with Tobasco. Some people don't mind the lag of the big turbo's, I can't stand it. Nothing bigger than 3076 unless it is a track only car. GTX30r seems ideal with topend like a 35r. I highly disagree with the no TS on the 30r. I love having the spool I do. I actually think the driveability is better than the k-04, but I have great topend. If I had a 3, I would probably change that a little though because the fail of fwd really changes when you can put power to the ground so a 35r becomes more ideal at that point.

[driver311]

Originally Posted by crazyp Im happy with my gtx3076. I know @jmhinkle has had both and went back to a GT30

gtx3076 will put the smack down with the best powerband, but I think with the .63 will be bad ass. 500whp with ease on a .63 76. My buddies sr20 hit 500whp with his standard gt3076 at around 28psi. this turbo will stomp that turbo and I think our motor will make more power.

I think now that Im gonna go over 22-23psi that a gtx3076 is probably in order. Gonna see what the gtx3071 maxes at first. I really really wanna try and hit 500whp with just the atp version. gonna port the back half and I think itll be close with the built head and cams flowing some air. I hope it all works out and I have a lumpy idle at the end of this deal LOL

[driver311]

Originally Posted by WWPearlMS6 Just Ordered the following: GTX3576R T3 Twinscroll Turbo w/ .82 Trim Tial (Black) 44MM Wastegate & Springs ACT Clutch Kit - 6 Pad Spring Disc w/ Streetlite Flywheel Treadstone TR1035 Intercooler Racebuilt Fabrication T3 Twinscroll Tubular Un-Equal Length Manifold Racebuilt Fabrication V-Band To V-Band (ATP DP->RBF Manifold) Adapter I believe we should sacrifice....Nothing. Anticipating same spool time as the guys rockin the GTX3076's but with hopefully more Big Power potential like the Big Boy 35's known for Found this article about the latest and greatest GTX3576 pretty interesting. Seemed like a win-win for me! Will be making new thread in BT Build section soon.. Stay tuned....

Damn that turbo is badass man. Hmmmmmmm that shit has me thinking. I never knew about the gtx3076 only flowing 3% more than the standard gt, but that new turbo is sick. I wonder if Eric can get me one? My wheels are turning big time.

[harryclay]

@driver311 do you feel like a gtx3071r on a 3 is okay for daily driving? I've really been looking at that hard and I'm ready to sell shit so I can hop on the bt bandwagon. I do a lot of autox in summers and was actually considering a gt2871r with .86, but I'm scared it won't be worth the money.

Op that's gonna be a badass build!

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by driver311 Damn that turbo is badass man. Hmmmmmmm that shit has me thinking. I never knew about the gtx3076 only flowing 3% more than the standard gt, but that new turbo is sick. I wonder if Eric can get me one? My wheels are turning big time.

@eric@edgeautosport.com
@JP@edgeautosport.com

Hook him up! =)

Big shout out to the guys @ Edge. Such a pleasure to do business with, there is legit no comparison. I would not work with another vendor noppppppppe! =)

~JaKe

[Tabasco69]

you can get a hair over 400whp out of a gt2871r while keeping it in it's sweet spot, the gt3071r flows about 5-6 more lbs, hypothetically 1lb of air equals 10hp, the 30r has better effeciency, ie will make the same power at slightly less boost and not heat the air up as much as the 2871r would....

Seriously either one is an upgrade over the k04, you are going to get tc that actually makes power all the way up to the rev limiter =topend, more usable power and better traction....less torque steer.

[jracer]

Hope you ordered a hpfp or internals and a AP .
Jmhinkle knows a lot about BT speed6's looks like you didn't listen ..
Good luck with that big turbo on a ms6 ..

[Nataphen]

@harryclay
The GTX3071 is pretty much perfect for the MS3 as a DD. I have driven @JacksonMS30's 08 MS3 with the ATP GTX3071, and I'd say that the car feels better than stock. The power is always there when you want it to accelerate, but it's more linear and controllable.

The perfect turbo setup for the MS3 IMO is the GTX3071. MS6, I've had my eye on the HTA3582R with divided 1.06.

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by jracer Hope you ordered a hpfp or internals and a AP . Jmhinkle knows a lot about BT speed6's looks like you didn't listen .. Good luck with that big turbo on a ms6 ..

He has Autotech and AP in his list...

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by bmylez He has Autotech and AP in his list...

Thanks bmylez. And I believe I listened very well and went with a unique setup sure to retain the daily drivability of a GTX30 on this GTX3576. You gotta actually read the stuff I post up, this is their latest and greatest hybrid turbo with the turbine side of a 35 and compressor side of the 30. His experience is based of an entirely different animal the GTX3582. Don't get the two confused this will give me near identical spool/drivability as these 30's cause it shares the most of the same accompanying components (T3, Twinscroll,EWG, Tubular manifold) My car is gonna be out. Quick ass spool like all the GTX30 guys. I have sacrificed nothing, yet retained all the benefits between both turbos. Do your research into the new turbo.

[bmylez]

Sorry man, you have it backwards. It's a GTX30 *compressor* wheel (76mm instead of 82mm that the 35 has). In that article you posted, they said that the 30r turbine was the restriction, so by combining 35r hotside with billet 76mm wheel, you remove the bottleneck. You are going to lose some spool, but you WILL spool faster than a gtx35/regular 35r.

[ColonR]

this should be an interesting build. Will you be doing the install yourself???

[WWPearlMS6]

Originally Posted by bmylez Sorry man, you have it backwards. It's a GTX30 *compressor* wheel (76mm instead of 82mm that the 35 has). In that article you posted, they said that the 30r turbine was the restriction, so by combining 35r hotside with billet 76mm wheel, you remove the bottleneck. You are going to lose some spool, but you WILL spool faster than a gtx35/regular 35r.

My error you are correct. It is the 35 turbine housing (hot side), and the 30 compressor side (cold side). Smaller compressors are more efficient in the lower RPM range. This will spool slightly later than a 3076, and before a 3582. Its the happy medium. But with my supporting mods I see it spooling nearly identical to a 3076 maybe 1-200 later tops but more than likely worth it in the end.

FROM GARRETT:

GTX3076 (360-640HP--1.8L-3.00L)
COMPRESSOR SIDE (COLD SIDE):
INDUCER WHL DIAM 58.00, EXDUCER WHL DIAM 76.60
TRIM 58 A/R .60

TURBINE SIDE (HOT SIDE):
WHL DIAM 60.00
TRIM 84 A/R 0.00

GTX3576 (405-695HP--1.9L-3.75L)
COMPRESSOR SIDE (COLD SIDE):
INDUCER WHL DIAM 58.00, EXDUCER WHL DIAM 76.60
TRIM 58 A/R .60

TURBINE SIDE (HOT SIDE):
WHL DIAM 68.00
TRIM 84 A/R 0.00

GTX3582 (450-750HP--2.0L-4.50L)
COMPRESSOR SIDE (COLD SIDE):
INDUCER WHL DIAM 62.50, EXDUCER WHL DIAM 82.50
TRIM 56 A/R .70

TURBINE SIDE (HOT SIDE):
WHEEL DIAM 68.00
TRIM 84 A/R 0.00

--Seems to me the GTX3576 shares much more in common with the 3076 than the 3582.

Originally Posted by ColonR this should be an interesting build. Will you be doing the install yourself???

No with a friend, though I'm probably not much use to him besides holding a light or grabbing the wrench he needs lol

[Tabasco69]

Originally Posted by bmylez Sorry man, you have it backwards. It's a GTX30 *compressor* wheel (76mm instead of 82mm that the 35 has). In that article you posted, they said that the 30r turbine was the restriction, so by combining 35r hotside with billet 76mm wheel, you remove the bottleneck. You are going to lose some spool, but you WILL spool faster than a gtx35/regular 35r.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing-HUH? if the gtx3076 hotside has problems driving the compressor how the heck would going to a even larger compressor be more better?

If I was hypothetically on the market for a new tc hands down gtx3071r or 6758 (white unicorn)

[Dmurray06]

this thread has a lot of good info in it, keep going boys.

[driver311]

Originally Posted by harryclay @driver311 do you feel like a gtx3071r on a 3 is okay for daily driving? I've really been looking at that hard and I'm ready to sell shit so I can hop on the bt bandwagon. I do a lot of autox in summers and was actually considering a gt2871r with .86, but I'm scared it won't be worth the money. Op that's gonna be a badass build!

Dont consider anything other than the gtx3071 until we get a bolt on efr from fullrace. its simply a badass turbo and dailys much better than the stock tiny worthless infant snail they put on this car and call it a turbo. its embarrassing mazda wonders why they have replaced thousands of them. If they would have just put a turbo on it like the caliber srt we would all be making 400whp on stock turbo and mazda wouldnt have wasted millions of dollars replacing all the things that a blown turbo fucks up. Get a fuckin clue mazda. LOL And after they knew it in 07, then 08 then 09 then 10 then 11 they still continue to put that trash k04 in here.

[Nataphen]

^Agreed, a 3071 would have been a great stock turbo IMO.

This GTX3576 should be interesting. As we know, 2x is able to hit 20psi by 3200RPM with the HTA3582 (similar to the GTX models), so the GTX3576 may be as much spool as you'd ever want. Hell, 20psi by 3200 is pretty close to what most people would want anyway.

[bmylez]

GT3071 stock? Ok...

Looks like many other manufacturers need to get a clue, then, because the Volvo C30 uses a k04, among others. Anthony, where are you seeing Calibers making 400whp? Don't they have the same turbo as the Neon SRT4? I looked around at Neon SRT dynos and it looks like they make about the same power as we do with bolt-ons/tune.

[Nataphen]

I'm not saying anything except that I wish the MS3 came with a 3071 stock because it's a great match for the motor.

[Tabasco69]

3071r on a oe car, in a perfect world maybe, but it would make too much sense.

IMO the worst thing about a stock disi is the k04, you have an engine that can create a great amount of torque and exhaust energy for it's displacement becuase of the disi system and they hamstring it right out of the gate with a toy tc.
K04's powerband is anemic,and then you get too much power when it really is counterproductive especailly with a fwd car, do you guys have any idea how many ms3 have been put into ditches because of inexperienced drivers and torque steer.

Perfect example....looks good don't it? except for the fact this guy running e85 on a ko4 makes all of his power at just the start of the midrange of the engines powerband then the bottom falls out from underneath it....toy tc

Kind of glad because there is an abundance of spare parts ms3 at wrecking yards

[Ziggo]

Where are you ordering the Racebuilt divided manifold from? Details?


Zigatapatalka

[Tabasco69]

Curious what is wrong the the ts steedpseed manifold.....why are you not going to use it in your build, what makes it wrong for your build if you are using a ts tc?