-cj-'s BT Build

[-cj-]

Short version:

At first I was like:






But then I was like:



Long version:

I guess my original BT Build was lost in the Great Crash.

I originally decided to go with a FP 3076r w/ a DSM flange, PGv3 Manifold and TiAL 44mm EWG. I sourced out all the material to make custom lines and I was fully committed... But as time went on, and I started seeing more and more results from people running 3071's, I lost my mojo and ultimately scrapped the 3076r build. I really didn't want to deal with the dump tube, the new downpipe, the manifold re-flanging, all the custom lines, the extra coolant lines to the EWG, etc etc etc... I wanted to just drop in a turbo and go fast like almost everybody else.

If anyone remembers my original thread, I had a shit load of pics from my initial build...

Fast forward to 2011. I decided to drop in an ATP3071r and call it a day.



Here we are test fitting everything.

After talking with some members here, I decided to get my boost source from my BPV. After getting the car over to the tuner, he advised against it. His take on it is that it's better to get the source as close to the turbo as possible, in case you get a leak.. That way you don't overspool the turbo.

Since my turbo wasn't tapped for a boost source, I was going to buy a Quick Tap like this:



I also picked up one of these, that I was going to play with later on... My tuner liked it better and we decided to use it instead:



Unfortunately I don't have a picture of this, but the result of all this made my CP-E FMIC pipe stick up too much and the hood ducting had to go.

Next up was my EBC. I picked up a Grimmspeed long ago, and decided to drop it in. I wanted to get tuned in 3 port mode:



I simply used industrial strength velcro to stick it to my ECU cover. I didn't want to drill any holes anywhere.

Unfortunately my tuner had trouble with the Grimmspeed and gave up on it. Long story short, we ended up using the stock EBC. Not what I wanted, but at least I'm up and running.

You'll notice that my engine bay looks pretty stock still. I managed to retain my battery box and ECU in the stock location. The battery box is bolted down with a single bolt at the very back and the front isn't bolted down. This allowed me to move the box over a little to the right, so it doesn't squeeze the inlet hose.

I'm running a CP-E Big Inlet hose (4" to 3") mated to my Cobb SRI, which is 2.5"...

Some interior shots:







I pretty much copied Lenny's build thread. All my hoses are from ATP. I'm running a steel braided oil return, coolant lines (except for the little rubber hoses at the ends) and the stock oil feed metal hard line.

As you can see from the pics, I went with the Steedspeed stock location manifold. This is pretty much where I stopped copying Lenny. The manifold is so solidly constructed that I didn't bother with a turbo bracket.

The only thing that has me worried is I'm getting a lot of heat in the engine bay... To the point where that hose next to the turbo outlet (see above picture) is starting to melt a bit (Well, the hose itself appears fine, but the electrical tape + that mesh wrapped around the hose is starting to melt a bit near the outlet). Leen is on it though and he has something up his sleeve for me.

(Note: I attribute the heat to the lack of heat shields, not to the Steedspeed manifold, FYI)

Impressions:

I'm running 22 psi (I placed an order for the 3 bar MAP sensor last night). Simply put, the car hauls ass. I'm extremely impressed with the results and I'm very glad I went with the 3071r... It truly seems to be the ideal turbo for this car. Since I was forced to drive, and later tune, my k04 at 3k RPM, I don't notice ANY lag with this turbo at all. Driving in traffic is a lot of fun.

I was always worried about creating too much power for my fwd setup to handle, but the car seems to be completely stable at this power level.

Dyno Sheet:

I dyno'd on a Dynapak. The numbers might appear low compared to other people, but it's consistent with the other MS3's in my area.

Yellow boxes: This number represents my last dyno in January of this year. The differences between then and now: Much colder weather (I'm in Canadia after all), stock exhaust manifold, stock turbo. Running a Christian tune @ 20 psi.

Green boxes: Same as above, except with 3071r @ 22 psi, Steedspeed exhaust manifold. Hot humid day.



I'm making crazy torque (My tuner is worried about my pistons), but I was secretly hoping for a bit more power. My tuner thinks my stock exhaust might be holding me back. So I definitely have some room for improvement. I also don't like my intake setup. 4" -> 3" -> 2.5 seems kinda power robbing. Although the exhaust is the more pressing matter.

My next few power mods will be exhaust, upgrade the intake (big maf), add meth and call it a day for power mods.

Funny tid bit: After the BT swap, my Forge V2 sounds like Steve Carell doing his Six Million Dollar Man running routine (8 seconds in):

The Office: Michael Scott - Six Million Dollar Man

The Office: Michael Scott - Six Million Dollar Man

[rodrigo]

not even gonna say shit cj i dont wana traumatize u again

[zx2man]

who is tuning your car? Your making mad tq but you are quite low on hp kind sir. Not trying to rain on your parade, maybe the dyno there reads really low on hp??

most guys with 3071 18-22 psi are making 350+ whp...shit Driver311 made 300 whp @ 13 psi

Also before spending money of larger maf, keep in mind...guys making below 400 whp, but in the 350-390 range-Brian,Lenny,Driver311,others...are using a stock size maf via Cobb intake or SURE intake ect. I think stock size maf as long as its calibrated correctly and your car is tuned correctly should be fine, but if it helps with peace of mind, go for it.
I do agree however the stock cbe is holding you back....I dont know if its holding 30-50 more whp back lol...but it should open things up quite a bit by going with aftermarket 3" cbe.

Bottom line either the dyno reads really low on hp, or you need a different tune, i dont want to judge your tuner or say anything negative, but 324 whp on a 22 psi 3071, something is up.

You are making mad tq though.....and if your happy thats really all that matters..no need to impress anyone but yourself. I would suggest your tuner calling up Tim Bailey @Cobb Tuning Surgeline if you ever want to properly run a 3port. He has figured it out, and that is how Iam going to run my 3071. But mbc is simple and it works, enough said, just a FYI Nice build btw.

[-cj-]

Originally Posted by zx2man who is tuning your car? Your making mad tq but you are quite low on hp kind sir. Not trying to rain on your parade, maybe the dyno there reads really low on hp??

Rain welcome... Trust me, I was expecting at least 350 hp, so I was a little disappointed in the raw numbers. I'm happy with how the car performs, just to get that out of the way... I'd still like higher numbers though.

I'm not sure why my torque numbers are so insane... Maybe a byproduct of a restricted exhaust? I'm only guessing here. I do know that as I free up restriction and shift my power band over to the right a little, I should create a higher peak hp. But like you said, I don't see that buying me 50 hp...

The car was tuned by APH (Advance Powerhouse) in Toronto. The tuner is very knowledgable, but new to Mazdaspeed's. He was trained by Christian from Cobb and honestly, I'm very impressed with the power band he tuned. Very nice guy and very knowledgable.

Originally Posted by zx2man Also before spending money of larger maf, keep in mind...guys making below 400 whp, but in the 350-390 range-Brian,Lenny,Driver311,others...are using a stock size maf via Cobb intake or SURE intake ect. I think stock size maf as long as its calibrated correctly and your car is tuned correctly should be fine, but if it helps with peace of mind, go for it.

You're probably right, but I think once I look at all other possible options, I can't ignore the obvious intake restrictions. Although, another shop that tunes hot rods (so I don't know how applicable their information is, but I'll repeat it anyway) said that on newer turbo applications, you want the restriction to be the intake side and not the exhaust side... In the older days, it was the opposite. So keeping that in mind, I might just keep it the way it is, or maybe simply get rid of that 2.5" intake and go 3" all the way up to the 4" inlet.

Originally Posted by zx2man Bottom line either the dyno reads really low on hp, or you need a different tune, i dont want to judge your tuner or say anything negative, but 324 whp on a 22 psi 3071, something is up. You are making mad tq though.....and if your happy thats really all that matters..no need to impress anyone but yourself. I would suggest your tuner calling up Tim Bailey @Cobb Tuning Surgeline if you ever want to properly run a 3port. He has figured it out, and that is how Iam going to run my 3071. But mbc is simple and it works, enough said, just a FYI Nice build btw.

I actually ran to another dyno the day after to compare the dyno numbers. This dynapack that I ran at, had nearly the exact same numbers as a dynajet. After a 1 hour long drive of spirited driving in hot humid weather (def a bit more hot/humid than the dynapack day shown above), I only got about 10 minutes to cool the car before it went on. I hit 305hp! I waited 10 minutes with the car off this time and gained 10 hp and 20 tq, 315/347-ish. I couldn't break the 320 mark... But it was close enough to the dynapack that shows me that they were calibrated the same. The dynajet had poor air flow though.

I think I'm going to get my exhaust put in and take it from there... I'm going to contact Tim on my tuner's behalf and see what can be done.. I really want a 3-port setup...

Thx for the feedback.

[-cj-]

Can someone with a 3071 do me a favor and post their wgdc table?

[-cj-]

Update:

- Added CP-E CBE w/ resonator. Tune needs to be tweaked a little, not holding 22 psi. I dyno'd again and gained about 4 hp on my best run (329whp) and torque is now at 404 wtq. Fobio's helping me out with an updated tune... He noticed a few areas we could tweak to get some more power. Plus I'm going back to 3-port mode on my EBC.

We had a dyno day with a bunch of local MS3's. I wanted to know how my car compared to other local guys on the same dyno... So basically:

Stock 2010 MS3: 215 whp / 244 wtq
2nd Gen w/ Corksport SRI w/ TIP: 232 whp, 251 wtq
Average 1st Gen w/ stage2 tune (DP or RP) ~270 whp

Here's a video:

YouTube - CJ Dyno

YouTube - CJ Dyno

(Thanks to Snotrocket for video)

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

You're sure that the michael scott sound (great example) is flutter and not surge?... I mean, w all the guys your working with, I'm sure it's not, but I just went bt and had a vac line leak which was causing surge... just throwing it out there.

And damn, I thought I was the ony one with BT and stock exhaust (genpoo), guess I'm not special. Too bad the exhaust didn't give you more hp, I was hoping it would!

Lastly, idk what wgdc numbers will tell you. It all depends on how tight the arm is (if I understand it correctly)... As an example, Dano and I both have 3port and boost of around 20ish on iwg 2871s, but my wgdc is way lower than his, and I think it is because the arm on my wga is tighter

[-cj-]

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 You're sure that the michael scott sound (great example) is flutter and not surge?... I mean, w all the guys your working with, I'm sure it's not, but I just went bt and had a vac line leak which was causing surge... just throwing it out there.

Yup, it's def flutter... I can pretty much cause it on command. =) I just think back to that Office skit everytime I hear it though! I think a few people caught me laughing at myself too, they probably thought I was crazy...

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 And damn, I thought I was the ony one with BT and stock exhaust (genpoo), guess I'm not special. Too bad the exhaust didn't give you more hp, I was hoping it would!

I *think* once the tune is tweaked a bit, the numbers will increase. After swapping to the CPE exhaust, my numbers would peak at 22-23 psi and then steadily drop. I think once the tune is updated it will reveal proper gains... Or not! We'll see... I must say, I'm digging the CPE TBE (catted downpipe, resonator CBE) w/ Steedspeed exhaust manifold... Sounds mean at low RPM, all engine at high RPM....

Originally Posted by Ckmazdaspeed3 Lastly, idk what wgdc numbers will tell you. It all depends on how tight the arm is (if I understand it correctly)... As an example, Dano and I both have 3port and boost of around 20ish on iwg 2871s, but my wgdc is way lower than his, and I think it is because the arm on my wga is tighter

We just wanted something to compare to... Wanted to see what other people were using for their WGDC. We're pretty much scrapping the current tune and starting over. Fobio Tuning FTW.

[Fobio]

Some before and after logs from tuning. In the current tune, there's a lean spot of ~12AFR around 4800rpm, eventho 11.8 AFR is targetted and spot on in other parts of the rpm range.

This is the dyno log of the custom base map we started off with, but w/ 2-port EBCS:

Cliff's note: map from dyno tune [not by me], maxed out wastegate, slow CL/OL transition, safe AFR but not smooth, boost curve could use some work...274g/s.









I then made a base map to expose [at/just above] wastegate spring pressure and to smooth things out. After a couple days and about 6 sets of logs, this is where we are at. This is also with an EBCS in 3-port...we made it work, and you can see the low and steady WGDC logged. Street tuned, 292g/s.









We're currently still working to ramp up boost onset and smooth out AFR. Since a new intake is coming, we'll hold off on a fresh MAF calc until that's in. We're also looking to get meth in the along with an OCC. A cleaning of the FMIC is also in order. Meth is also going in this wknd...but I want to sort out the lean spot regardless.

[Fobio]

We are both figuring that the lean spot is due to a leak after MAF but before turbo, as the turbo seems to be sucking in unmetered air and causing the lean out. Once we can confirm this thru logging, we'll move on to the intake and meth shortly.

[Fobio]

-cj- went on a rampage with the clamps and even lock-tited the bitches...found intake leak and hot-pipe leak...

then he went on to take on a BMW M6...not some Mazda6...hit 338g/s...can't wait to hit the dyno!

[dougefresh_]

Congrats on finishing the build!

Originally Posted by -cj- Can someone with a 3071 do me a favor and post their wgdc table?

^I'd be VERY careful with this... only use what someone posts as a reference, and cut the whole table down by at least 20% to be safe if you're gonna run the Grimmy in interrupt mode. Why couldn't the tuner do this? Is the Grimmy faulty?

[Fobio]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Congrats on finishing the build! ^I'd be VERY careful with this... only use what someone posts as a reference, and cut the whole table down by at least 20% to be safe if you're gonna run the Grimmy in interrupt mode. Why couldn't the tuner do this? Is the Grimmy faulty?

The original tuner couldn't tune it to work in 3-port.

I'm the tuner now...=) We got it to work in 3-port and everything is good.

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by Fobio The original tuner couldn't tune it to work in 3-port. I'm the tuner now...=) We got it to work in 3-port and everything is good.

Niiice. Did he have it plummed wrong or something? He shoulda read my thread 'how to' haha. Well, he's in good hands now . I was wondering why you were all up in his shit, lol. Good stuff!

[Fobio]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Niiice. Did he have it plummed wrong or something? He shoulda read my thread 'how to' haha. Well, he's in good hands now . I was wondering why you were all up in his shit, lol. Good stuff!

I think the tuner just didn't realize the relationship between wgdc, boost and load...-cj- reinstalled it it himself after the dyno tuning for us to re-tune him from scratch.

also, I'm very excited about -cj-'s build cuz mine's startign tonight!...basically exact same setup. So by the time my car's ready, I should have a map ready for myself too! only thing isI'm going with a big MAF, which might make MAF Calc a bit problematic...

Anyway, I'll leave the rest to -cj-...he's been hunting for rolls lately...lol...

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by Fobio I think the tuner just didn't realize the relationship between wgdc, boost and load...-cj- reinstalled it it himself after the dyno tuning for us to re-tune him from scratch. also, I'm very excited about -cj-'s build cuz mine's startign tonight!...basically exact same setup. So by the time my car's ready, I should have a map ready for myself too! only thing isI'm going with a big MAF, which might make MAF Calc a bit problematic... Anyway, I'll leave the rest to -cj-...he's been hunting for rolls lately...lol...

Ah, gotcha. Tuning wgdc/DB wasn't bad on the K04, but I bet it takes a lot more finesse on the BT. Dude, I thought you already had a 3071? wtf You have a thread yet? PM me linky when you do!

[-cj-]

So yeah, as Fobio mentioned above, I went on a rampage and started loctite'n my clamps. That made an immediate difference when I was doing a 4th gear log... Boost came on sooner and more quickly. To the point where I said "holy shit" when it hit.

In the absence of a dyno, I look for fast cars to run lol. Only thing I should correct from Fobio's post above, I'm pretty sure it was "only" a regular 6 because he got buried very quickly.. The first run, he got the jump on me since he was ahead of me and cut across two lanes to get into the fast lane.. By the time he made it over two lanes, and started into the 3rd, I was already there and started my assault on passing him hahah. There wasn't even an awkward moment to look at him as I passed him, the car just passed him with authority.

Two back to back runs and finally he creeps up and rolls down his window and yells across "THAT is a FAST car man!" thumbs up and we went our separate ways. Hahah.. Good times.

Huge thanks to Fobio for keeping my car running right! His magic hands have me putting down more and more g/s's every night hahah.

[dougefresh_]

Glad you got her plugged up. Fuck leaks. I replaced all my couplers and vac line when I went BT. Haha, that's sweet man rompin on cars! If it had a spoiler that's like 3" off the back or no spoiler, it's a regular six. If it has a decklid spoiler, it's a speed6. Easiest way to tell the difference. Although, it sounds like you were in front of him 95% of the time, lol

[-cj-]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Glad you got her plugged up. Fuck leaks. I replaced all my couplers and vac line when I went BT. Haha, that's sweet man rompin on cars! If it had a spoiler that's like 3" off the back or no spoiler, it's a regular six. If it has a decklid spoiler, it's a speed6. Easiest way to tell the difference. Although, it sounds like you were in front of him 95% of the time, lol

I replaced every t-clamp on this car... Previously, I had a leak on my (other) CP-E hot pipe, right on a weld. This time it was the t-clamp holding the hot pipe to the turbo outlet and the "T" off my BPV that feeds my EBC, etc.... I *HATE* chasing leaks.

BTW it was a BMW 6, not a Mazda 6 =) We were debating whether it was an M6 or a regular 6, but considering how quickly I pulled away from him, it had to be a regular BMW 6...

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by -cj- I replaced every t-clamp on this car... Previously, I had a leak on my (other) CP-E hot pipe, right on a weld. This time it was the t-clamp holding the hot pipe to the turbo outlet and the "T" off my BPV that feeds my EBC, etc.... I *HATE* chasing leaks. BTW it was a BMW 6, not a Mazda 6 =) We were debating whether it was an M6 or a regular 6, but considering how quickly I pulled away from him, it had to be a regular BMW 6...

lol, I've had those T-bolts so damn tight in the past I actually bent the cpe pipes a bit. Pliers to straighten them and good to go. I know exactly how tight to have em perfect now. Vibrant coupler upgrade made all the diff and I replaced a bunch of t-bolts. I have one ghetto coupler at the TB (stocker!) and two worm clamps rigged together there... fail. No leaks, but will replace w/ better coupler and correct size T-Bolt... 2.5" iirc.

I was leaking like a mofo on the K04 and those jank ass CPE couplers. So worth the $60 to upgrade all that shit. Nice romp on the bimmer... regular or M. Although it's not a challenge on the slow ones, it's funny when you completely destroy them, and they're like wtf was that? I love the screamer barking FFUUUUUUUUUUUU as I blow by them, lol. Everyone can hear that shit thru their windows on the highway going 80mph... it's obscene.

[bmylez]

By BMW 6 you must mean the 650i (the only model it comes in, unlike the 3 or 5 series, which have multiple models).

650i has 360 hohspowah and 360 torks. That would be fast in an MS3, but the 650 weighs 3814, so it's no wonder you beat him

To put it in perspective, I'm stock turbo and *was* running 21psi. I pulled on a 6.0L GTO, which has 400hp and weighs 3725...more power, less weight. So yeah, go huntin for some faster cars

[-cj-]

Originally Posted by bmylez By BMW 6 you must mean the 650i (the only model it comes in, unlike the 3 or 5 series, which have multiple models). 650i has 360 hohspowah and 360 torks. That would be fast in an MS3, but the 650 weighs 3814, so it's no wonder you beat him To put it in perspective, I'm stock turbo and *was* running 21psi. I pulled on a 6.0L GTO, which has 400hp and weighs 3725...more power, less weight. So yeah, go huntin for some faster cars

Very few people bite.

There's also an (older) M6 which has 400 hp and 500 hp (same engine and 'power button' setup as the M5). I have no idea what year or model his car was, other than recognizing the ugly tail lights (instant BMW 6 series give away). But, like I said, I had zero trouble with him so I doubt it was the M version.

You make it seem like I'm out racing stock civics.

[bmylez]

Naw, just sayin that bolt-on/tune MS3 will wax 650i all day long.

[dougefresh_]

A good friend of has a 04' M5 w/ the intake button for 500hp. Once I get her dialed in, I'll race him and try to get some vids. IIRC that thing runs a 12.5 1/4 or so. He just has an exhaust on it. /threadjack

[-cj-]

So, anyone with a Forge BPV, what spring are you guys using? I switched to a red spring when I went stage2... and I'm still using it. I wonder if I should move down to a yellow or maybe yellow with two shims? I'm getting this weird response when I start to spool up and then ease back on the throttle, but not remove my foot from the gas completely... The car will buck. If I'm at a low enough speed/gear it will buck uncontrollably for a while until I remove my foot from the gas (I don't know what would happen if I gave it more gas...didn't seem wise to try). During this time it sounds like the turbo is building boost and purging it (BPV) and repeating it continously. I think it's part of my "sha-ta-ta-ta" (See above) problem. If I build boost and step off the gas entirely, it purges it normally. Red spring issue? (I ran the red spring just fine with k04 @ 20psi. Now I'm 3071 @ 22psi.. should respond better, technically?)

Also, on a side note, I had some fun with a 135i today... even though I didn't see the driver's face, I could tell her was angry. LOL. It didn't help that we were going the same way and we stuck around in traffic for a while..

[Fobio]

just a little update.

tuning, moving over to v102 and more boost based tuning, has yielded about +40whp/+70wtrq...the number itself isn't what we're basing this on, but more the difference...

[-cj-]

I never considered getting a custom license plate, but if I did, I'd get "RAPEDAPE".

I had gotten used to how the car felt and relied on my wife's grasping at the "oh shit handle" to tell me when shit was fast... but the last few map revisions made the car feel different again.

Can't wait to test it out on the wife!

[Chimmike]

love the use of virtual dyno

[-cj-]

Stage2+Custom Tune in cold weather vs GT3071r in piss warm weather.

Mazdaspeed3 Stage2+Custom tune vs. Mazdaspeed3 GT3071r by VJ -cj- | YouTube Doubler | Mashup Helper

(I bounced off the rev limiter a few times in the GT3071r vid... Hard to film this shit by hand)

[Fobio]

Originally Posted by -cj- Stage2+Custom Tune in cold weather vs GT3071r in piss warm weather. Mazdaspeed3 Stage2+Custom tune vs. Mazdaspeed3 GT3071r by VJ -cj- | YouTube Doubler | Mashup Helper (I bounced off the rev limiter a few times in the GT3071r vid... Hard to film this shit by hand)

from my guesstimate...

K04: ~10 - 11sec from launch to 120km/h

GT3071R: ~9 sec from launch to 120km/h

[-cj-]

Sounds about right.

I timed both vids from 20 km/h to 120km/h and saw:

K04: 7.6
3071r: 6.1

Other factors:

- K04 in cold Canadian March weather
- K04 @ 22 PSI
- K04 @ stock rev limiter, 3071r @ 7k
- GT3071r in hot weather
- CJ sucks at shifting while holding cell phone camera
- I only shot this because I wanted a new ring tone.