Cld12pk2go's ATP GTX3071 Build

[driver311]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 I'm double digit before 3500 most of the time. The other difference is boost control. @chimmike, you still using stock bcs? @driver311, you using mbc or ebcs?

I have a hallman pro now but planning on switching to gs ebc for running higher boost in 3-5 and keeping 1-2 mild.

[BlueStreak]

Do you anticipate a compromise in power/efficiency using a 2.5" TIP vs. something bigger?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak Do you anticipate a compromise in power/efficiency using a 2.5" TIP vs. something bigger?

I certainly do not believe it will come remotely close to preventing me from pegging the stock MAF, which is my next flow bottleneck...

Obviously, having a little more pressure drop in the intake makes the compressor operate at a higher pressure ratio (and this typically means hotter discharge temp) for the same boost/massflow; however, this turbo can flow 55lbs/min, which is way more than I will ever need. Also between the FMIC and meth, I doubt I will have too many concerns about BAT going up due to somewhat elevated compressor discharge temps that will result from the non-optimal TIP.

[driver311]

Personally I believe it will be just fine. In fact I believe it so much that I plan on switching from my cpe 4in inlet to a atp 3in one. I just like the idea of having the exact same size all the way to the turbo and the same going out. I also like the idea of a hard pipe vs the soft cpe one. The cpe one is nice for trying to get on. A 4in hard pipe would be difficult at minimum.

[cld12pk2go]

Updates in posts 3/5.

[driver311]

Call mark he will get you the 14psi spring. Mine came that way also. Apparently you have to request it now cause thats what atp has more of laying around. Stupid. Mine hooked straight to a boost source sees 15psi. Good write up man. Looks to be coming along just fine.

Did you soak the header wrap in water before install? It looks like you didnt but maybe its the pics. Putting it in water allows for it to stretch and then when it dries it shrinks real tight and clean looking. Again nice work. I cant wait to see what kind of results you get. This turbo is no joke and got popular real quick.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by driver311 Call mark he will get you the 14psi spring. Mine came that way also. Apparently you have to request it now cause thats what atp has more of laying around. Stupid. Mine hooked straight to a boost source sees 15psi. Good write up man. Looks to be coming along just fine. Did you soak the header wrap in water before install? It looks like you didnt but maybe its the pics. Putting it in water allows for it to stretch and then when it dries it shrinks real tight and clean looking. Again nice work. I cant wait to see what kind of results you get. This turbo is no joke and got popular real quick.

Did you have a chance to compare the numbers on the WGA to see if I definitely have the 10 PSI one?

I will shoot Mark an PM.

I did soak the header wrap back in 08. However, it has a little wear and tear over the past few years.

[driver311]

Oh I see. It just looked new to me and not tight, but now I see what you are saying.

[driver311]

Yes I checked the part number. Its the 10psi wg. Same shit I got and the reason that those gtx3076 owners are having issues also Id bet money

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by driver311 Yes I checked the part number. Its the 10psi wg. Same shit I got and the reason that those gtx3076 owners are having issues also Id bet money

<grumbles>

That is hella lame.

I don't mind having to get coolant hoses and stuff so much but incorrect WGA spring pressure isn't a small issue.

[driver311]

No and will need to be addressed before any tuning. Mark got me mine in 3 days. Its easy to swap in the car also. From under the car it literally takes 10min.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by driver311 No and will need to be addressed before any tuning. Mark got me mine in 3 days. Its easy to swap in the car also. From under the car it literally takes 10min.

Yeah, looking at the pics it doesn't seem like it will be overly difficult to get at. Oh well, just another item to add to my to do list.

[cld12pk2go]

moved to post 4

[cld12pk2go]

EGT install updates in Post 4.

New logs posted in Post 5. Starting to get some power now...

[cld12pk2go]

433whp VD plot added to Post 5...

Things are starting to get interesting...

[superskaterxes]

when you were doing the hardline, did you line up the oil feed banjo with the hole in the CHRA to see if it would even fit?

when i was doing @vbt101's, it was a PITA to get them to line up all while keeping the washers in there but i was finally able to do it. when i was doing my own however, i had to grind down the hotside bolt like you did. but i also ordered a T3 3076 and swapped to the ATP hotside so that may have been it.

also we never had a problem with the drain line. i do agree it was pretty long but you should have attached it to the CHRA first and then bent it to mate with the block. after we did this it fit perfectly with the exception of having a huge bend in the hose rather then a nice smooth transition.

issues like these are exactly why i made that huge fuss with @eric@edgeautosport a while back about the ATP kit not being 100% bolt on.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes when you were doing the hardline, did you pine up the oil feed banjo with the hole in the CHRA to see if it would even fit? when i was doing @vbt101's, it was a PITA to get them to line up all while keeping the washers in there but i was finally able to do it. when i was doing my own however, i had to grind down the hotside bolt like you did. but i also ordered a T3 3076 and swapped to the ATP hotside so that may have been it. also we never had a problem with the drain line. i do agree it was pretty long but you should have attached it to the CHRA first and then bent it to mate with the block. after we did this it fit perfectly with the exception of having a huge bend in the hose rather then a nice smooth transition. issues like these are exactly why i made that huge fuss with @eric@edgeautosport a while back about the ATP kit not being 100% bolt on.

I didn't line up the hardline without the bolt for a visual; however, I think it was quite clear that there was interference as I initially fought it for a good 5 min without success (maybe 10 tries), and got it in the first try in about 5 seconds after the grinding.

Initially the oil drain was attached to the turbo's CHRA, and the line was so long that I would have had to severely kink it to make it attach to the block. I tried forcing it before realizing it was simply a no-go. Actually, even the 2.25'' shorter line had to be forced to fit since it was still in a bind somewhat.

"Flex hose" is a very relative term and short, thick "flex" hoses really aren't very flexible (i.e. they have a large bending radius), which is why the oil drain is such a PITA if the length isn't right to within a fairly tight tolerance.

Yeah, it is 100% bolt-on....if you don't mind the ~5-6 issues of the "non-bolt on" variety.

Seriously, ATP could resolve most of these very, very simply to make this a true bolt on.

[driver311]

I had none of those issues. The extra length in mine wasnt an issue and everything bolted right up. So strange that some have issues.

[bmylez]

It's simply bad quality control. Which is sad coming from ATP.

[Broxer]

Thanks cld for the awesome write up and taking all those pics during the install. Wouldn't take much for this to be a how to lol.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Broxer Thanks cld for the awesome write up and taking all those pics during the install. Wouldn't take much for this to be a how to lol.

I just wanted to say that your Avatar is awesome (turbo boost FTW!)...makes me want to DL the entire Nightrider series...lol...but I am too busy watching the old Beavis and Butthead in advance of the new episodes...

More logs added to post 5.

Time to increase load targets more...

[bmylez]

Alright, so a lot of people say VD is quite accurate. I haven't used it before...but is it really supposed to measure whp or at the crank? You have 297whp in your sig with k04...yet VD shows 358. Looks like crank to me.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by bmylez Alright, so a lot of people say VD is quite accurate. I haven't used it before...but is it really supposed to measure whp or at the crank? You have 297whp in your sig with k04...yet VD shows 358. Looks like crank to me.

It is not very wise to ASSuME.

My sig dyno was from March 2010, before running E85, before the load cap was eliminated, and before my adding more boost and a shit-ton of timing.

Dyno link: http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...66-9wtq-53665/

The fact that my 1.5 year old dyno and my VD Dyno plots from logs in the past few months are very different is not in the least surprising...

[bmylez]

358 is still very steep for k04 on e85. That's probably more than Clint is making, haha.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by bmylez 358 is still very steep for k04 on e85. That's probably more than Clint is making, haha.

Unfortunatley, we will never know...

I tried to dyno ~2 weeks before the K04 died to try to substantiate the VD data; however, the Dyno guy was out of town and I didn't get another chance prior to the turbo pronouncing its demise with a epic shriek.

[superskaterxes]

remember that clint has VERY limited mods. cld12pk is fully bolted so it all adds right up to me....

[bmylez]

Yeah but dude...we're talking about a bone stock k04. I have no idea how that thing flows the air it does, but it has to stop somewhere, haha.

[superskaterxes]

timing is a magical thing lol

[cld12pk2go]

Torque back above 400 ft-lbs after adding load in Post 6...

Originally Posted by superskaterxes remember that clint has VERY limited mods. cld12pk is fully bolted so it all adds right up to me....

Fully bolted except for the stock CBE...

[Dano]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes timing is a magical thing lol

esp once you remove the knock limitation and can actually reach MBT....E85 is the holy grail to fast DD machines.

12pk the tune is coming along very quickly and nicely...I suppose if you peg the MAP and IF you have another $60-80 laying around you could pick up another MAP and pigtail I know you have already spent a ton of money lol

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Dano esp once you remove the knock limitation and can actually reach MBT....E85 is the holy grail to fast DD machines. 12pk the tune is coming along very quickly and nicely...I suppose if you peg the MAP and IF you have another $60-80 laying around you could pick up another MAP and pigtail I know you have already spent a ton of money lol

I already have a 3-Bar MAP sensor so I think I am good there. Heck, I am flowing a ridiculous amount of g/s and might not need to go over 22 PSI to peg the stock MAF sensor.

[superskaterxes]

also dont forget that E85 just makes more power then pump gas because it has a higher energy value, so its not just the additional timing that people are seeing the gains from.

my turbo is well beyond the compressor map and im still making power and not just blowing hot air.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes also dont forget that E85 just makes more power then pump gas because it has a higher energy value, so its not just the additional timing that people are seeing the gains from. my turbo is well beyond the compressor map and im still making power and not just blowing hot air.

How many lbs/min are you from the last efficiency island?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak How many lbs/min are you from the last efficiency island?

right now about 4-5 but im only running a PR of 2.6 so as i upp the boost i will come back to the island if my efficiency drops off and i dont gain anymore g/s

[bmylez]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes also dont forget that E85 just makes more power then pump gas because it has a higher energy value, so its not just the additional timing that people are seeing the gains from. my turbo is well beyond the compressor map and im still making power and not just blowing hot air.

Ethanol does NOT have more energy in it:

Gasoline gallon equivalent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gasoline_gallon_equivalent

1 gal of gas has 114,000 BTUs whereas 1 gal of e85 has 81,800 BTUs. That's unless you don't mean BTUs but something else?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by bmylez Ethanol does NOT have more energy in it: Gasoline gallon equivalent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 1 gal of gas has 114,000 BTUs whereas 1 gal of e85 has 81,800 BTUs. That's unless you don't mean BTUs but something else?

wait wait wait, i thought stoich for stoich, E85 has more energy per stroke?

[Nataphen]

It takes more e85 to get the same result, that's why it takes ~35% more fuel volume to work properly. The main reason (I believe) for the gain in power is that it has cooler combustion, which allows the addition of timing up to MBT without race gas. You're going through fuel 35% faster, so it's not technically "more efficient", it's just that the way that it reacts to spark so happens to be better for making power.

This is what I've understood from the research that I've read here and a few other places, but I could have misinterpreted.

[superskaterxes]

ok heres where i remember reading what i said earlier, its from the attached document in the E85 FAQ sticky

HORSEPOWER: Because Ethanol contains oxygen, it has a very low power stoichiometric when compared to gasoline fuels (6.5 compared to 12.5). Ethanol must be run at much richer mixtures than gasoline, more than offsetting the lower energy per unit volume. The net energy released per cycle is higher and this results in more horsepower. For example, if a pound of gasoline is burned at its preferred max power air fuel mixture of 12.5/1, it will release approximately 19,000 BTU’s of energy, where ethanol run at its preferred power stoichiometric of 6.5/1 will release approximately 24,400 BTU’s. By comparison, methanol releases slightly more, about 27,650 BTU’s. The more ethanol there is in gasoline, the more powerful it is as a motor fuel. Typically, you can expect at least 5% more horsepower at the rear wheels of a vehicle running on E-85 than one burning gasoline only.

[bmylez]

Hmmm...although that seems to contradict what I posted, I think it's because he's talking about a pound of fuel instead of a GALLON. Volume and weight are different things entirely.

[superskaterxes]

^^^^ yes thats where i think our differences are