Drivers attempt at E85

[Darksun280]

I always thought the fuel pumps had to be different but now I learned the stock ones are ok. So now its a matter of Driver feeling frisky and throwing 25 Degrees of timing at the car. Good luck who knows how this car reacts to high timing.

Also e85 will fuck up the HPFP it's just not an instant thing. I doubt even with in 2 years would you see the effect of it not lubricating the piston properly but then again that fucker rev's at an insane speed so wear might show quicker than i expect.

[EnigmaOperator]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 so the fuel system doesnt need to be modded running 50/50 mix or lower?

Correct. your stock fuel system is completely safe running a a 50/50 E85 & Premium fuel mix.

Originally Posted by Lex My biggest concern is how the friction parts will take the alcohol. Injectors, CDFP, cylinder walls etc. ....Just don't let the car sit for too long, ethanol fuel separates after a while.

^ That is not a concern. As of the inception of OBDII cars, Manufacturers were required to build fuel systems and engines capable of handling and adapting to the ethanol which is added to all forms of gasoline in both winter and summer mixes.(summer depending on location)

Chemically, ethanol is really no more corrosive than gasoline, meaning it's not. Both are solvents and not an acid -

as for ethanol fuel seperation - its as common as premium fuel seperation. basically, cars can sit for a very long time before that happens. with as frequently as you drive your car (probably a DD) you may never experience that.

Originally Posted by Darksun280 fuel lines on most cars have to be changed not sure why you MS3 owners would be any different.

FALSE.

modern fuel lines in all cars post 1990 are capable of handling ethanol fuels- PER manufacturer requirements. replacing a fuel line with an upgraded line such as stainless is something some folks do for peace of mind - but speaking of mind - keep in mind that even stainless lines have fuel tubing / rubber inner linings.. again capable of handling E85.

Originally Posted by Haltech All you need to lubricate the alc in the fuel system is 1 cap full of marvels mystery oil per gallon of E85.

FALSE.

though a novel idea, E85 is STILL 15% Premium gasoline. that 15% is left in there for a reason: lubrication for parts that need it.. fuel pumps etc.

Originally Posted by Click Here I think ethanol does have some benefits even without any tuning. Whether these power advantages are measurable in practice, I guess is a different question... 1. Ethanol has less energy than gas does per volume, but when mixed at a stoich ratio the ethanol mixture is going to release more energy by about 5% over gasoline. 2. Ethanol generates lower exhaust gas temperatures as compared to gas, and also increases the total exhaust volume, which can be particularly beneficial for turbos. 3. Ethanol's evaporative cooling advantage is only amplified by the high-pressure DI system, which can cool the air charge and ultimately increase VE. 4. Ethanol burns much more efficiently (faster) at richer mixtures than gas does. 5. Ethanol's initial burn time is much slower than gasoline which reduces the amount of negative work done on the piston at the end of the compression stroke. And I think what Driver is doing is bad ass.

^ that is absolutely correct. Additionally, E85's natural octane rating is 105. so as is, it has an octatne rating similar to 100 octane racing fuel. where E85 really shines is its inherent cooling properties.. through its cooling effects on the head's and combustion chamber E85 runs much like 116 Octane - much like Sunoco's 116 octane racing fuel. Many tuners running 100% E85 are maxing exact power levels as they are with 116 Octane race gas. The difference being in the price. 116 can be INCREDIBLY expensive sometimes as much as 10-20 dollars a gallon depending on location. - E85 is 2 bucks a gallon.

basically, many folks in the know consider it cheap race gas from the pump.

Originally Posted by Stealth01 I thought that about ten years ago, all fuel systems were required to be able to handle ethanol, since it is put in most gasoline, often as much as 10% during the summer months?

Stealth is correct. as i previously mentioned, fuel systems were brought up to speed and designed to be able to handle Ethanol fuels in the 1990's. Many times, that ethanol is added in the Winter months however.

Sounds like Stealth may know his stuff.

Originally Posted by Darksun280 I always thought the fuel pumps had to be different but now I learned the stock ones are ok. So now its a matter of Driver feeling frisky and throwing 25 Degrees of timing at the car. Good luck who knows how this car reacts to high timing.

Yes. the stock fuel pump can handle ethanol fuel. However, often the pump is upraded to support applications which require high fuel flow.

Originally Posted by Darksun280 Also e85 will fuck up the HPFP it's just not an instant thing. I doubt even with in 2 years would you see the effect of it not lubricating the piston properly but then again that fucker rev's at an insane speed so wear might show quicker than i expect.

Fuel pumps have gone, but they have also failed under normal Premium gasoline use too. but consider this- many folks running E85 in their high WHP application EVO's STi's Porsches, BMW's and GT-R's are using pumps for 5 years at a time without failure. Additionally, Deatchwerks now makes a pump specifically designed for E85 use - negating the arguement that E85 kills fuel pumps. Besides, even if it were to kill pumps, a Walboro 225lph pump costs 90 bucks. if it fails in 5 years - thats 18 dollars a year in fuel pump costs. or 0.04 cents per day.




hope that helps to set the E85 record straight. It seems there is quite a bit of aprehension on this board against E85, which really is a shame- considering it can make more power than Meth injection systems (without fear of a meth injection system hiccup) , its Knock proof, and it's basically like race fuel that costs $2.30 a gallon.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by EnigmaOperator hope that helps to set the E85 record straight. It seems there is quite a bit of aprehension on this board against E85, which really is a shame- considering it can make more power than Meth injection systems (without fear of a meth injection system hiccup) , its Knock proof, and it's basically like race fuel that costs $2.30 a gallon.

Good post. Thanks!

Unfortunately we DI guys need the meth injection anyway to keep our intake valves from caking.

[EnigmaOperator]

Originally Posted by Matt Good post. Thanks! Unfortunately we DI guys need the meth injection anyway to keep our intake valves from caking.

Keep in mind that E85's denatured fuel ethanol works to clean the intake system and combustion chamber very much like a methanol does.


not only does it make power, it cleans as it does it.


also, a can of BG 44k once every 6 months is also an effective cleaner

[Matt]

Originally Posted by EnigmaOperator Keep in mind that E85's denatured fuel ethanol works to clean the intake system and combustion chamber very much like a methanol does. not only does it make power, it cleans as it does it. also, a can of BG 44k once every 6 months will mitigate any caking for ya.

The difference is where the injection takes place. What you're talking about is Port injection, which cleans the intake valves/ports all by itself. With Direct Injection the fuel never sees the intake side of the valves or ports. This is why meth injection is pretty much necessary to limit the HP losses from caking.