Going Big Turbo...what's necessary...not a question lol

[JP@edgeautosport.com]

Guys, I just posted this in our section. I know @chimmike has a sticky thread on this but as guys get more into going big turbo, the options are evolving and this is mainly for the turbo setups only, not the whole car. On top of that, the newer GTX turbos and the yet to be released (at least the bigger versions) EFR turbos from BorgWarner are creating some cool possibilities for us. There are obviously some guys on here with the Bullet and PT turbos so we'll touch on those too. I'm going to create an "available turbo combos" thread in our section and keep updating this one but this is just a start. I'll update it with more info as I keep puttin the list together. I will be adding some combinations later such as HTA turbos, T3 setups, Twin Scroll Setups, and other setups. But this is a start. Our cars are only going to start getting more and more attention from the aftermarket including Full Race which I'm sure all of you know about. EFR turbos are quickly becoming the talk of the town. BorgWarner is backordered like a mother with future orders already so this turbo is already gaining ground in the public eye and is going to be very potent once there becomes some available options for full setups for the MS3 and MS6 in particular. Enjoy and ask any questions you want!! For those of you that don't comment too often, no question is stupid!!! Just ask it.

Here you go:

Garrett Turbo Setups for Stock Mazda Flange
-If you don't know what that means, all you need to understand is that the upgraded turbo matches the stock manifold and any aftermarket manifold that works with the stock turbo.

Guys, I can't stress this enough...if you are on the fence about going big turbo because of complexity, supporting mods, or even money, just stop and consider your options.

I promise you it's easier than most of you are thinking to go big turbo....and more reliable than you think. Of course, all the supporting mods ultimately make it a higher performing car but you can still use stock manifold, pump gas, and all bolt-on downpipes. If you haven't ever ridden in or driven a 400whp car, you are missing out on something you never thought could make you smile that big. It's AMAZING and if you can afford it and it's this reliable, there's no reason why you can't or shouldn't do it.

Here's what you need.

IWG (Internal Wastegate) Setup:
1. ATP Mazda Flanged Turbo GT2871, GT3071, GTX3071, GT3076, GTX3076, GT35, GTX35
2. Big Turbo Inlet Pipe (CPE or ATP)
3. Boost Controller

THAT'S IT!!! Everything else is probably already on your car or in your plans, downpipe, sri, fuel pump upgrade, FMIC or upgraded TMIC. It's like the Staples commercial..."THAT WAS EASY!" You can always get custom setups for intake and downpipe if you want a different turbo but we'll go into that as we keep adding to the list.

Here's what you need for the EWG (External Wastegate) setup (only applies to 3071/3076 turbos for stock Mazda flange):
1. Turbo w/out turbine housing (GT3071, GTX3071, GT3076, GTX3076 only)
2. ATP Mazda Flanged EWG Turbine Housing (comes separate as a standalone piece)
3. Tial Wastegate (preferably and it comes with Vband clamps)
4. ATP Turbo EWG Dump Pipe
5. Oil/Coolant Line Kit and other hardware from ATP (studs, nuts, washers)
6. Big Turbo Inlet Pipe
7. Boost Controller

EDIT: THIS IS NOW SOLD ON OUR SITE AS ONE COMPLETE TURBO!! ATP WILL PREASSEMBLE THE TURBO AND LINES FOR YOU SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO!!!!

Literally ALL of these parts work with parts that are already available for the these cars. I will disclose one thing...with the EWG setup, the only downpipe that is known not to interfere with the Tial Wastegate is the ATP Turbo downpipe. With @eric@edgeautosport car, he had to slightly dent the pipe to fit the wastegate in there. The good news is the ATP pipe is not extremely expensive so if that's one thing you need to swap out if you go EWG and don't want to create a small dent in the downpipe, then it's not the most expensive option and worst case scenario, you can sell a used downpipe in good condition pretty easily.

EDIT: Since we've originally written this, we've figured out that we can just use a 90° elbow to reroute the wastegate to the side so it will clear any downpipe you have.

Like I said, I'll be adding to the list. If you want to go big turbo but can't until some time passes or you have to save some money, you can still purchase several supporting mods along the way without having to change your setup when you go BT. That's what's so awesome about these two options.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Also JP the cnt dp will work with ewg without modification since its a mock up of the atp.

Remember this only applies to guys using the atp ewg hotside and not a ewg setup located on the manifold.

[Adam is so pro]

Pro.

[emag remrofni]

Subbed for what I'll inevitably be doing...

[EdgeAutosport.com]

im switching out the atp ewg hotside and going t3 soon. lets see the difference in power levels on the same amount of boost

[asall667]

I'm about to take that $3200 I got from a refund check n dump it into going BT.

I def want a steedspeed mani tho, with that, is $3200 enough JP? Lol lmk if we can make it work I'm in. U make it sound easy

[EdgeAutosport.com]

3200 would be enough if you have the other supporting mods. are you going ewg or iwg?

[bmylez]

Why is MBC preferred? I'm running one, but there are a lot of benefits to EBCS.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

I use mbc just because of the simplicity. i guess its not preferred but its all up to the builder. ebc does have its perks like switching boost on the fly but meh mbc is solid for dd

[bmylez]

Well with EBCS, you can hold the WG shut longer and have boost come on more steadily, which some people prefer. The way my boost builds with MBC is pretty linear, so I have no reason to switch, but I think you might confuse people by saying it's preferred, hah.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Yeah I understand you can run interrupt mode but like you said you build boost pretty linear and yeah i like that I can have JP edit his post saying its preferred but more like what we would recommend due to simplicity of tuning with an mbc. set and forget is easy for me and some people may agree

[captain slow]

Is it harder to tune the ewg than it is the iwg? The ewg offers greater benefits but I hear ewg setups are more difficult to tune

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[EdgeAutosport.com]

no ewg are easy. just set your spring pressure to what you want put in mbc and dial that bitch in

[TRex]

no love for EBCS on the internal wastegate? not even with a grimspeed 3 port?

[sQwiReL]

MVS 38mm Wastegate 90 Degree Elbow, 100% 304 Stainless : atpturbo.com

would this be a cure for the ewg hitting none atp/cnt dp?

[asall667]

I wanna go EWG from the getgo.

I need DP, FMIC, Internals, SS Mani, EWG, TIP, Turbo with matching DP, etc etc lol.

Yes, I'm like stock except a SRI. Is it even worth BT at 55k? Also I hear it's not as fun as the K04 cuz it takes till like 3700 RPM to spool up.

Interested in a gtx3076 or 71 and numbers I wanna run anywhere between 350-425 using boost controller. Ideas tips hints?

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by sQwiReL MVS 38mm Wastegate 90 Degree Elbow, 100% 304 Stainless : atpturbo.com would this be a cure for the ewg hitting none atp/cnt dp?

this would solve the problem 10000000% although the cnt and atp dp clear the ewg setup just fine this is needed for the ms6 or an ms3 with a cpe dp

Originally Posted by asall667 I wanna go EWG from the getgo. I need DP, FMIC, Internals, SS Mani, EWG, TIP, Turbo with matching DP, etc etc lol. Yes, I'm like stock except a SRI. Is it even worth BT at 55k? Also I hear it's not as fun as the K04 cuz it takes till like 3700 RPM to spool up. Interested in a gtx3076 or 71 and numbers I wanna run anywhere between 350-425 using boost controller. Ideas tips hints?

lol who did you hear its not as fun as the ko4? BT>k04 any day unless you like driving a car with a turbo that runs out of steam in the upper rpm range. I went BT @ 60k and im just getting started. N20 was ordered yesterday. you can do 400+whp on 22 psi on a normal 3076.

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by asall667 Also I hear it's not as fun as the K04 cuz it takes till like 3700 RPM to spool up. Interested in a gtx3076 or 71 and numbers I wanna run anywhere between 350-425 using boost controller. Ideas tips hints?

You are right, it is not as much fun as the K04, cause its about 1000x more fun than the k04!

By the way, my gtx3071 hit 20psi by 3350rpms yesterday. Amb temps were low (middle 60's) but still...

If I had it to do over again, I would buy a fuel pump solution and the cobb AP first, then the turbo, 4" inlet pipe, and the MBC before any other mods. After that I would get the intake/downpipe/intercooler upgrades.

[bmylez]

I think you are confusing "fun" with "transient response." If you want a turbo that spools up at 1500rpm and gives you lots of low end grunt to get from stoplight to stoplight, then maybe you should stick with it...but if you want a turbo that spools at ~3500rpm and will smash you back in your seat and shred your tires off in 3rd gear...you want a BT. My car isn't even fully tuned for my BT yet and I'm breaking loose in 2nd gear, 10psi, part throttle. It makes the k04 look like a little girl.

[asall667]

lol thanks for the clarification. I will try and find the people on here who told me that k04 is more fun and mention them.

So for now, whats the best Ex. Housing to get? Cuz I dont wanna grab a DP for my stock K04 and get a T3 and then have to get another DP. So whats the best from the getgo?

[bmylez]

Maybe you missed the entire first post? This whole thread is about going stock Mazda exhaust housing so all of your hard-earned parts bolt right up minus your TIP and I/C piping.

[asall667]

Originally Posted by bmylez Maybe you missed the entire first post? This whole thread is about going stock Mazda exhaust housing so all of your hard-earned parts bolt right up minus your TIP and I/C piping.

got it..

[superskaterxes]

theres a ton of small shit missing from the OP which is crucial to getting your shit running at all.

next time i see this thread in new posts ill update it

[irishking03]

The Man right here. Thats why I am going through you for my BT

[bmylez]

Well if you get the 100% bolt-on kit, he's not missing much...you need a short i/c pipe to extend the compressor outlet to hook up to the hot pipe and you need to extend one of the coolant lines.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes theres a ton of small shit missing from the OP which is crucial to getting your shit running at all. next time i see this thread in new posts ill update it

Whats a ton of small shit you speak of?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport Whats a ton of small shit you speak of?

you can reuse the stock oil return but you will need to either drill out the holes in the turbo side flange because they wont accept the bigger bolts the turbo needs, or u can buy step down studs from ATP.

you will need a NEW coolant feed line because the stocker will just not fit. ~$100 from ATP

you will need a new coupler or hotpipe for your FMIC

you will need a way to get a boost reference for your MBC or EBCS (ATP makes a quick tap or u can tap compressor housing)

if you buy a standard GT series turbo (non direct from ATP version even if you buy the ATP hotside) you will need to grind down the top most bolt that holds the hotside on the CHRA to the left of the oil feed because otherwise the stock oil feed line will not line up with the hole.



there's prob a few other minor details but trust me when i say that your OP is far from everything you need. i already see people making threads saying the things u have listed in the OP is all they need and your going to leave them high and dry.

ive been with this platform from day ONE, i have the current setup listed in OP, and if you plan to keep customers you better make sure they are well informed. im not even sure why you made this thread as there are a million other threads on the same topic with MUCH better and more useful information.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

superskates all those parts you listed come WITH the kit. besides the coupler (for fmic) eveyrthing is included with the kit including studs, nuts, oil and coolant lines. this kit is a direct drop in. I dont know how many you have installed but I have done serveral and ATP has made these kits so easy a caveman can do it

edit they also include new banjo bolts that bolt up with the stock oil feed and coolant return and send a quick tap also. I do understand you have been with this platform for sometime but your information is way wrong

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport superskates all those parts you listed come WITH the kit. besides the coupler (for fmic) eveyrthing is included with the kit including studs, nuts, oil and coolant lines. this kit is a direct drop in. I dont know how many you have installed but I have done serveral and ATP has made these kits so easy a caveman can do it

first of all the OP doesent state that all this shit comes with the kit (you and I may know that but others dont)

your EWG option says that you need to buy everything individually yet you dont list whats in the coolant/oil line kit. you can ONLY use a 38mm EWG with the ATP EWG housing. if you have an MS6, the EWG dump tube from ATP will not fit because the Tcase is in the way. i know someone was working with them on getting a revision made but you certainly dont have that detail listed in the OP or whether they have made it yet.

i dont know if you assume people are just going to call you when they order all this shit (and hopefully you already knew all this stuff to be able to tell them) but you cant just say "hey its a kit everything comes with it" if thats not really true. theres just alot of holes in your OP and im already seeing n00bs assume thats all they really need.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

I dont disagree with you on your point about OP being limited in full detail, but when a customer calls me up they just dont say "hey i wanna order a atp turbo kit kthxbye" JP and myself throughly go over with each customer in detail what is included in the kit and if anything extra is needed we will inform them.

If we make an op such as this one stating that this is all you need, it really is all you need. The oil and coolant kit needed is mazda specfic, the reason I know is I was the reason for them to make the kit for me when I was doing my build since I did not buy a kit but pieced my entire kit together. Also that ewg you speak of that does get in the way of the PTO with the ms6's is already taken care of with a 90* elbow that relocates the ewg to clear all that stuff. I understand none of this is listed in the OP but again we are very upfront and honest with our customers and will inform them and not lead them down a wrong path.

Again the iwg and ewg kit that is offered through edgeautosport does come with everything needed to do this swap. We do take into consideration the ewg kits take a few more goodies but every customer is informed with all the provided information to make a decision to purchase the correct application to best suit their needs.

[asall667]

I believe in edge auto sport....I ordered from JP before (not turbo related) and he was very helpful. I think what Eric says about being honest is 100% true and they will back their word up. Im sure they are not going to sell half a kit and leave people stranded.

[irishking03]

I can still fly you to Pa for a BT install right Eric lol

[JP@edgeautosport.com]

Originally Posted by bmylez Why is MBC preferred? I'm running one, but there are a lot of benefits to EBCS.

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport Yeah I understand you can run interrupt mode but like you said you build boost pretty linear and yeah i like that I can have JP edit his post saying its preferred but more like what we would recommend due to simplicity of tuning with an mbc. set and forget is easy for me and some people may agree

Originally Posted by TRex no love for EBCS on the internal wastegate? not even with a grimspeed 3 port?

MBC is just really reliable. I know there's some cool things you can do with EBCS but I just put "preferred" because I prefer it so Eric is right, I just recommend it. Either way works and is fine with me.

Originally Posted by sQwiReL MVS 38mm Wastegate 90 Degree Elbow, 100% 304 Stainless : atpturbo.com would this be a cure for the ewg hitting none atp/cnt dp?

Nice find! I honestly didn't even think of that, Eric what the hell is wrong with you denting your downpipe lol. Seriously this is a great idea to try out and see how well it works and where you can make the dump tube exit. Eric, maybe we can play around with that a little bit on an install to see if we can do this very easily. We'll see.

Originally Posted by bmylez I think you are confusing "fun" with "transient response." If you want a turbo that spools up at 1500rpm and gives you lots of low end grunt to get from stoplight to stoplight, then maybe you should stick with it...but if you want a turbo that spools at ~3500rpm and will smash you back in your seat and shred your tires off in 3rd gear...you want a BT. My car isn't even fully tuned for my BT yet and I'm breaking loose in 2nd gear, 10psi, part throttle. It makes the k04 look like a little girl.

Ya it really is awesome. No offense to anyone that has ever said this because you just don't know but...I would imagine the people that have gone BT after saying at one point they thought the stock turbo was better in any way looked back and said, "WTF was I thinking?" lol

Originally Posted by superskaterxes first of all the OP doesent state that all this shit comes with the kit (you and I may know that but others dont) your EWG option says that you need to buy everything individually yet you dont list whats in the coolant/oil line kit. you can ONLY use a 38mm EWG with the ATP EWG housing. if you have an MS6, the EWG dump tube from ATP will not fit because the Tcase is in the way. i know someone was working with them on getting a revision made but you certainly dont have that detail listed in the OP or whether they have made it yet. i dont know if you assume people are just going to call you when they order all this shit (and hopefully you already knew all this stuff to be able to tell them) but you cant just say "hey its a kit everything comes with it" if thats not really true. theres just alot of holes in your OP and im already seeing n00bs assume thats all they really need.

Hey Anthony, this is good questioning to see how this post is being viewed. And by the way, I know there are other posts and better posts...so far. As a company, we want to be a part of it though. A post by lenny127 and whoever else did that install a long time ago is a great thread but it doesn't help us as a company one bit. We just want to get involved and get hands on with this instead of just take orders. Also, posts get old. As things mature and grow, revisions are made and new products come out. We want people to be up to date on their info, for example the wastegate actuator arm design change, the better ported IWG port, etc. Those wouldn't be reflected in older posts that someone might be viewing. I don't think there should be 1 thread to show someone everything. There are different takes that someone can compile info from.

There are some vague points in the OP for sure but I guess that's what I meant when I said bolt-on. The Oil/Coolant line kit is really available as a kit and actually has a part number.

Special Bundle Mazda Speed 3 - oil and coolant fittings used in kit : atpturbo.com

But this doesn't come with the studs, nuts, and washers. So if you're going EWG, you need to buy those as well which are basically a dollar a piece for each stud, nut, and washer. You can see them on this page at ATP.

Fasteners : atpturbo.com

I won't sell the EWG setup without mentioning these. I just include it anyway since they are cheap. I have been telling people the hardware kit for the EWG setup is basically around $200 and I'll include all that stuff.

The only Tial Wastegate that will work is indeed the 38mm Vband called the MV-S. However, if you look at the dimensions of the Turbosmart CompGate40, it actually has the same base measurement of 55.4mm that the Tial one has, so we might be able to get a 40mm wastegate in there possibly. It'll just take someone trying it. @eric@edgeautosport, we may want to look into test fitting one of those on a EWG housing so we can report back to folks if it fits. Then we'd have a slightly bigger option for a wastegate.

Now the other points about MS6 fitment and T3 setups I am not mentioning here. Partly because I don't know as much about them due to lack of experience with MS6 and not nearly as many people going T3. This thread is strictly for MS3 right now and for stock Mazda flange. So I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I designed this thread so far for just the drop-in turbos. Although, the IWG drop-in turbos for MS6 should be just as flexible as these are. Bottom line is, one post isn't going to cover it all. Questions are welcomed and accepted, as well as criticism. We want to get this right and if that means getting info from others as well, we're definitely okay with that. You know me Anthony, I'm a straight shooter, if I need to help someone because there is a slight mistake on my part, I'll do it. Whatever happens, I will ALWAYS help people get the job done right.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by irishking03 I can still fly you to Pa for a BT install right Eric lol

yes sir whenever you are ready we will get that thing taken care of.

[asall667]

Eric....don't forget about me

After AP, I may go BT in May and I am def hitting you guys up!!

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Dont worry man I didnt forget about you

[superskaterxes]

JP i never meant to discredit you guys i was just stating that the OP was very vague for someone who was really new to the game.

when i bought my ATP kit they diddent have a "mazda specific" oil/coolant line kit so thats news to me lol. i had to rely on other threads of people who had already blazed the trail to see what bits and pieces i needed.

i was simply just trying to help people avoid ordering what they thought was everything and then 60% of the way through the install they realize they forgot one minor thing and now have to wait the weekend before they can get the parts they need to finish.

i know you guys do great business and you keep your customers happy but ive been around so long and witnessed so much fail that its hard not to look out for the new guy to make sure hes headed in the right direction. hopefully with vendors like you we can keep this wintastic platform going!

[irishking03]

^^^^Props to @superskaterxes for looking out for the noobs.. WIN...

[EdgeAutosport.com]

bump who wants a BT?

[Realgib3]

Yeah the only thing ATP needs ti make ut 100% is a small piece of hose and a straight connector to extend the one coolant line. Other than that, it's peefect