GTX 3076R vs. HTA 3076R and Mani Suggestions

[mychicksix]

So I'm trying to put together my build plan for this coming spring and I keep finding myself unable to make a decision on two main factors.

1. What turbo do I want to run, GTX 3076 or HTA 3076
2. What exhaust manifold do I want, FullRace, AFI or CPE

I'm kind of anal when making decisions like this and I'm very meticulous about making sure supporting parts all work best together for maximum efficiency and power output with as little strain as possible. It took me months when building my Turbo Fox Body to make these decisions but definitely paid off in the long run. At this point, every time I think I've made up my mind on a setup I read something new that sends me back toe scratching my head stage.

My car is an 07 BM MS6 with 70k babied miles. My goals for right now are to achieve 400-450AWHP on the stock bottom end with eventually plans to just break 500 once I'm KillahBuilt. I would like decent spool response (somewhere around 3-3500 would be nice) but I don't want to give up top end flow. I'm planning to use an ASI Meth injection system for secondary fueling and a CX Racing piping kit with a TR8L core, maybe a 1035 but I think that's overkill.

I was just about dead set on a GTX 3076 w/ EWG housing and FullRace mani until I read threads suggesting the CPE Mani. I'm not sure I understand the benefit of having the EWG on the manifold rather than the housing. Almost seems like it could cause more turbulence in exhaust flow that way. But I also hate the idea of having an IWG turbo and all that hardware just to have it locked closed. I love the cast design of the CPE and read that the their I.D. is 1.6" vs. the FullRace at 1.25". I'm sure the larger diameter will help top end but will it hurt spool time by lowering velocity?? Could I run the CPE mani and just cap off the port on the housing?? Then there's the AFI or DOCRACE mani's that I know nothing about other than people netting solid gains and faster spoil.

Through all this I was still pretty set on the GTX 3076 until I read some things about the GTX being mis-matched and the turbine housing being to small. People say they get choked up unless you run a .82 or larger housing. All the spec sheets say the GTX outflows the HTA quite a bit but I read where ms3blackmica switched and says "his HTA sucks babies out of houses that he passes by". LMAO!!

I'm just ready undecided on which direction to go and really want to start ordering parts. Any help, advice and information would be greatly appreciated. Anything to give me some direction and help put my mind at ease!!

[SpeedRebirth]

First of all, don't go with a TR8L core, it's for low horsepower use. Get the TR8 or 10 and don't look back.

And if your goal is 500awhp, then you really need a different flange between mani>turbo. The cp-e mani comes with V-band for Precision and TiAL hotsides which will flow way better than mazda flange. You want your setup to be efficient? Then don't compromise on this one!

And yes, EWG is better. Flows more and is easier for the tuner to control.

If you don't want to do custom work to get a downpipe to fit the v-band hotside then there is always the PTE kit that edgeautosport offers. I would recommend 5858/62 or even bigger (depends a little on how hardcore your engine build will be).

The only upside i can see with the HTA is the sound. They sound like a damn jetplane

[Scare Dem]

Originally Posted by SpeedRebirth The only upside i can see with the HTA is the sound. They sound like a damn jetplane

Watch and listen to the video carefully. Insta-spool!
@ms3blackmica;

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by SpeedRebirth First of all, don't go with a TR8L core, it's for low horsepower use. Get the TR8 or 10 and don't look back. And if your goal is 500awhp, then you really need a different flange between mani>turbo. The cp-e mani comes with V-band for Precision and TiAL hotsides which will flow way better than mazda flange. You want your setup to be efficient? Then don't compromise on this one! And yes, EWG is better. Flows more and is easier for the tuner to control. If you don't want to do custom work to get a downpipe to fit the v-band hotside then there is always the PTE kit that edgeautosport offers. I would recommend 5858/62 or even bigger (depends a little on how hardcore your engine build will be).m The only upside i can see with the HTA is the sound. They sound like a damn jetplane

Wow, thanks for bringing the intercooler situation to my attention! I had always read that the 8L offered lower pressure drop and higher flow to support more hp, but only after you said something did I look back into it and realize they're more for larger displacement and lower boost pressures to support volume at slower air speeds to help cool the charge. Great catch! That probably will push me towards the 10 or 1035 w/ a rdmotorsportz crash bar. Not sure if the baffled end tanks help but superskater is running a 1035 so that's gotta say something!

I've always liked precision turbos. I have a precision 76mm on my mustang and love it. I wouldn't be opposed to the idea and a v-band flange will definitely out flow our awkward design. I just wish there was some more data and experience with people running them. I know the guys that have made huge numbers but Im really not after that. And I'm a little concerned about fitment but with all the recent support from kozmic you may be onto something! I just feel like there's a bit of guess still with PT's on our car. Maybe an HTA w/ V band housing?? I feel like I should be able to achieve my goals with one of those.

I'm planning on the build to be solid just no extensive head work or cams. But definitely springs and a valve job, mild porting and 65lb springs. fed with a JMF intake. Don't think I'll need direct injection but we'll see.

[sporkbomb]

Originally Posted by mychicksix ... I'm planning on the build to be solid just no extensive head work or cams. But definitely springs and a valve job, mild porting and 65lb springs. fed with a JMF intake. Don't think I'll need direct injection but we'll see.

Best of luck to you! Be sure to document your build. I need some ideas and would love to learn from your mistakes/epiphanies.

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by sporkbomb Best of luck to you! Be sure to document your build. I need some ideas and would love to learn from your mistakes/epiphanies.

Haha I'm not exactly sure how to take this. I'm super excited about the build and hope to not make any mistakes. That's why I'm asking the questions I can't get out of my head. I hope it doesn't become a "what not to do thread" lol but if you've got something on your mind please feel free to share! I'm receptive to any and all feedback!

[speed_freak91]

Have you given the full race EFR turbo kit any thought?

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by speed_freak91 Have you given the full race EFR turbo kit any thought?

I've read into them a little bit but never really considered it. I feel they're fairly over priced and I've yet to see one perform well enough to impress me or justify the price. Not saying their work and products aren't beautiful!

[speed_freak91]

Originally Posted by mychicksix I've read into them a little bit but never really considered it. I feel they're fairly over priced and I've yet to see one perform well enough to impress me or justify the price. Not saying their work and products aren't beautiful!

@Alpha;

^^^ This guy can answer any questions about the EFR kit I'm sure. There is another guy here that is running the same kit, I just can't think of his screen name.

Honestly, if you piece together your own kit, the FR EFR kit is just a little bit higher in price for some quality stuff. If I didn't already have most of my supporting mods, I would have gone with the EFR kit.

[ms3blackmica]

HTA spool and transient response is unlike any other.

[SarcasticOne]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica HTA spool and transient response is unlike any other.

Better than efr?

I know the gtx line up sacrifices spool and power for less noise...

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica HTA spool and transient response is unlike any other.

That's exactly what I've read I'm just thrown off by the statistics saying the GTX should significantly out flow the HTA. I've watched that video before and I definitely like what I see and HEAR for that matter. That HTA sounds sexy as hell and immediately responsive! What were your reasons for converting your GTX and what changes/benefits did you recognize? About where in your curve are you achieving good boost vs. full spool? Does it hit hard or come on soft and does it hit any walls up top or pull strong to redline?

Right now I'm leaning more towards the HTA and a CPE Mani w/ tial v band connections and a kozmic dp assuming they've got the bugs worked out. Beings that you have a very similar setup I'd like to look to you for tuning.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by mychicksix I've read into them a little bit but never really considered it. I feel they're fairly over priced and I've yet to see one perform well enough to impress me or justify the price. Not saying their work and products aren't beautiful!

When you do the math of not having to run an EWG/Piping, pay for a EBCS, and the simplicity of the setup... The EFR 7163 is actually pretty reasonable IMHO. (Plus I hate the "Dirtbike" sound of EWGs on anything other than a Supra)

I'll be pushing the 7163 once I see a nice manifold/PI fuel system that I like (Don't care for the JM design), but I'll hit 500 AWHP/550 AWTQ uncorrected all day on this turbo. It's STUPID responsive and the spool can't be beat.

Originally Posted by speed_freak91 @Alpha; ^^^ This guy can answer any questions about the EFR kit I'm sure. There is another guy here that is running the same kit, I just can't think of his screen name. Honestly, if you piece together your own kit, the FR EFR kit is just a little bit higher in price for some quality stuff. If I didn't already have most of my supporting mods, I would have gone with the EFR kit.

Hell yeah man!

Originally Posted by mychicksix That's exactly what I've read I'm just thrown off by the statistics saying the GTX should significantly out flow the HTA. I've watched that video before and I definitely like what I see and HEAR for that matter. That HTA sounds sexy as hell and immediately responsive! What were your reasons for converting your GTX and what changes/benefits did you recognize? About where in your curve are you achieving good boost vs. full spool? Does it hit hard or come on soft and does it hit any walls up top or pull strong to redline? Right now I'm leaning more towards the HTA and a CPE Mani w/ tial v band connections and a kozmic dp assuming they've got the bugs worked out. Beings that you have a very similar setup I'd like to look to you for tuning.

The 7163 is gonna spool a bit quicker than the HTA and flow a bit more than a GTX3076. There's really no compromise with it.

I hit 28 psi by 2800 RPM and we're flowing almost 500g/s up top at only 23 psi being fuel limited.

Either way, your goals sound very similar to mine so however you get there will be cool to see.

[mychicksix]

The 7163 is gonna spool a bit quicker than the HTA and flow a bit more than a GTX3076. There's really no compromise with it.

I hit 28 psi by 2800 RPM and we're flowing almost 500g/s up top at only 23 psi being fuel limited.

Either way, your goals sound very similar to mine so however you get there will be cool to see. [/QUOTE]

Im not finished reading into this system I'm just not sure I'm confident enough to go that route. I'm excited to see your results and I've heard a lot of great things about their turbos. Like you said, our goals are evidently similar and Im confident we'll both achieve them either way. I'm looking forward to comparing our results!

What kind of power are you making right now at your current boost levels and what kind of fueling are you running??

Originally Posted by doubleflusher You're going to love the HTA. "When the boost hits, your ass shits" - Abraham Lincoln

Yeah man, I think so!!! I'm super stoked about it! It's nice to feel confident about a decision like that.

I know there's a guy in the middle of a PT build right now that just bought a DP and screamer pipe from Kozmic but I don't see anything on their website. Anybody know if their listed anywhere or do you have to call someone??

[rtabagaboy]

Originally Posted by Alpha The 7163 is gonna spool a bit quicker than the HTA and flow a bit more than a GTX3076. There's really no compromise with it. I hit 28 psi by 2800 RPM and we're flowing almost 500g/s up top at only 23 psi being fuel limited. Either way, your goals sound very similar to mine so however you get there will be cool to see.

At least on paper the EFR7163 does not flow as much as the gtx3076 59 lbs vs 64 lbs. But as was mentioned the HTA may say 59 but flow as much at the gtx. Not many MZRs with 7163 and big power yet.

Either way I am very interested in this thread and am basically building a similar monster to the OP.

I am currently building the engine and trying to figure out what I want for turbo/mani.

My top runners are:
custom Mani/EFR7163
CPE Mani with gtx/hta/precision 3076/5858

I am trying to get decent spool down to 3-3.5k and good top end power. The only reason I don't like the EFR is because of the custom manifold route. I also am not a huge fan of the FR mani. EFR does come in Vband it just does not fit correctly on the CPE Vband manifold

If it did? Oh yeah!

Very interested in this thread.

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by rtabagaboy At least on paper the EFR7163 does not flow as much as the gtx3076 59 lbs vs 64 lbs. But as was mentioned the HTA may say 59 but flow as much at the gtx. Not many MZRs with 7163 and big power yet. Either way I am very interested in this thread and am basically building a similar monster to the OP. I am currently building the engine and trying to figure out what I want for turbo/mani. My top runners are: custom Mani/EFR7163 CPE Mani with gtx/hta/precision 3076/5858 I am trying to get decent spool down to 3-3.5k and good top end power. The only reason I don't like the EFR is because of the custom manifold route. I also am not a huge fan of the FR mani. EFR does come in Vband it just does not fit correctly on the CPE Vband manifold If it did? Oh yeah! Very interested in this thread.

Awesome, I appreciate the support! Sounds like you should read the thread listed above that I referenced about the HTA comparison. A lot of great information and a lot of win for the little guy IMHO.

Another thing I forgot to mention, that thread also states where FP rated the HTA as flowing 57lbs but when tested it flowed more like 64.

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by rtabagaboy EFR does come in Vband it just does not fit correctly on the CPE Vband manifold

I know Cp-e used to offer their manifold without a flange so you could use whatever you wanted to on it. I'm not sure if it's still an option but I'd ask them and see if they can work something out.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by mychicksix Im not finished reading into this system I'm just not sure I'm confident enough to go that route. I'm excited to see your results and I've heard a lot of great things about their turbos. Like you said, our goals are evidently similar and Im confident we'll both achieve them either way. I'm looking forward to comparing our results! What kind of power are you making right now at your current boost levels and what kind of fueling are you running??

We made 408/460 uncorrected on 87 octane in AZ... We had to turn down the torque because I was on a stock clutch and bottom end at the time.

Now the boost is a little higher with an E85/93 octane blend, (28 psi down low and 22psi up top) but we're out of IDC until I can get more fuel, but the torque and responsiveness even now is awesome.

Originally Posted by rtabagaboy At least on paper the EFR7163 does not flow as much as the gtx3076 59 lbs vs 64 lbs. But as was mentioned the HTA may say 59 but flow as much at the gtx. Not many MZRs with 7163 and big power yet. Either way I am very interested in this thread and am basically building a similar monster to the OP. I am currently building the engine and trying to figure out what I want for turbo/mani. My top runners are: custom Mani/EFR7163 CPE Mani with gtx/hta/precision 3076/5858 I am trying to get decent spool down to 3-3.5k and good top end power. The only reason I don't like the EFR is because of the custom manifold route. I also am not a huge fan of the FR mani. EFR does come in Vband it just does not fit correctly on the CPE Vband manifold If it did? Oh yeah! Very interested in this thread.

Yeah, there are only a handful of guys running the 7163 on MZRs, but a lot on other platforms making great power. However, the beauty of it on the street is its responsiveness, torque curve, and ability to breathe up top. I'm at full boost under 3k and when I get fuel we'll be SCOOTIN up top. I just need to find a good manifold/PI to get it as the JM robs a lot of torque and leaves a lot of room to be desired IMHO.

The FR EFR manifold is great, if you only plan on running the 7163. As long as your goals are moderate (550-580 AWHP with a SHIT ton of torque) it's a killer turbo.

Personally, I'd rather have a quick spooling 500/550 streetcar than a 600/400 racecar. TORQUE and torque NOW is where it's at!

But then again, I have AWD to use it.

[Mazdazilla6]

If you're looking for best spool use a divided T3 housing on the turbo. If you ask Edge they will sell the HTA3076 with any housing you can find on ATP's website.

As for a manifold for that you will probably have to have a custom one made. There is a certain individual who is no longer on MSF but he makes beautiful custom manis that don't run much more than what you can get from vendors.

The other option I would consider if I was in your place would be a Tial v-band housing w/Cp-e mani.

[ms3blackmica]

Although Forced Performance does advertise that their HTA 76 compressor wheel has a choke flow of 59 lb/min vs. the 65 lb/min plotted on the GTX compressor map, I have found that both turbos can produce the same maximum horsepower.

[mychicksix]

I just did a little digging and found that ATP offers a v-band in & out housing for the GT & GTX turbo in a .61, .83 and 1.01 A/R. If I'm thinking correctly these should bolt right up to the HTA compressor housing and work with the CPE Mani.

What size hot side would be smart to go with? I know the .61 would probably spool the quickest but I've read that evo's respond very well with the GTX when you loosen up the hot side and prevent stuffing. Not sure if that would even apply to an MZR. I'm definitely not looking for a glorified dyno queen and I'm not really into top end highway racers that spool at 5k. I want this bitch to be sinister! Hit hard and pull like a freight train to redline. I'm not looking to see 8k but somewhere north of 7000 would be tits!!

Originally Posted by ms3blackmica Although Forced Performance does advertise that their HTA 76 compressor wheel has a choke flow of 59 lb/min vs. the 65 lb/min plotted on the GTX compressor map, I have found that both turbos can produce the same maximum horsepower.

While the HTA is more responsive and hits harder down low? Sounds like total win to me!!

[Snyeed]

Buschur racing made 577hp at 35psi on an hta76 with a .63 tial housing back in 2011.

Buschur Racing-HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison - evolutionm.net

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by Snyeed Buschur racing made 577hp at 35psi on an hta76 with a .63 tial housing back in 2011. Buschur Racing-HTA3586, HTA3082, HTA3076 comparison - evolutionm.net

Good to know, and I always appreciate some more reading material! I'm not looking to go much over 30psi in the long run but I should be able to achieve my goals there. I wonder if it would benefit then from the larger .83 hot side that cpe is using in their atmosphere kit?

The kit looks impressive but $6200 is a little rich for my blood!

[mychicksix]

This should work quite nice with the CPE Mani! Does anyone know if you can purchase the CPE Downscream DP separately and if it's under a million dollars??

[doubleflusher]

I'm partial to HTA/HTZ, as they're the only big turbos I've ever used.

If you choose the HTA, get the CP-E mani with the Tial flange.

FP offers 2 Tial flange turbine housing options. Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP HTA GT3076R Ball Bearing Turbocharger

You can get a custom DP made for much less than what CP-E offers.

[Snyeed]

Originally Posted by doubleflusher I'm partial to HTA/HTZ, as they're the only big turbos I've ever used. If you choose the HTA, get the CP-E mani with the Tial flange. FP offers 2 Tial flange turbine housing options. Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP HTA GT3076R Ball Bearing Turbocharger You can get a custom DP made for much less than what CP-E offers.

Can you spit some knowledge on the HTZ? it's fairly recent correct?

[ms3blackmica]

Originally Posted by mychicksix While the HTA is more responsive and hits harder down low? Sounds like total win to me!!

Correct.

Originally Posted by Snyeed Can you spit some knowledge on the HTZ? it's fairly recent correct?

It's just a different blade design that the much larger turbos are offered in (e.g. Super 94, Super 99, etc.).

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by doubleflusher I'm partial to HTA/HTZ, as they're the only big turbos I've ever used. If you choose the HTA, get the CP-E mani with the Tial flange. FP offers 2 Tial flange turbine housing options. Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP HTA GT3076R Ball Bearing Turbocharger You can get a custom DP made for much less than what CP-E offers.

Yeah that's definitely the route I'm going right now. After reading through that comparison thread from Bushur Racing I'm pumped about the HTA3076. Granted the testing was done on a 2.3 EVO with a billet balanced crank but that turbo is a little monster!! Immediate response, quick spool and train wreck torque right from just above 3k. Now I truly understand "we started from the bottom now we here!" They pushed it to 40psi and it continues to make more than 10hp per pound meaning it's still efficient at those levels with peak numbers breaking 600 in both hp and tq. And that was with a .63A/R

No it won't hang with the real big boys up top but I'm not into smoking a cig before full spool. I save my smokes for after I get handled and the 3076 trumped the big boys by as much as 150hp for nearly 2,000 rpm before they came alive. And the torque differential is even more substantial!

[Etipp98]

I don't suggest EFR on stock bottom end...

[doubleflusher]

You're going to love the HTA.

"When the boost hits, your ass shits" - Abraham Lincoln

[mychicksix]

Anybody know anything about these wooden turbos?? Lol

[Code Monkey]

^ Give you wood every time you punch the gas?

[fivefingerdeathpunch]

From ATP description of the ms6 downpipe: Vband disconnect at turbo for modular use and future expansion

So yeah I think its designed partially do you can upgrade or convert flanges. It's 3" I think so it should mate to tial vband out.

I'd also suggest .82AR but of course .63 will give better spool. I just think that one of the reasons to move from stock hotside is because the ATP housing is .55AR so there are flow gains to be had by increasing AR

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by fivefingerdeathpunch From ATP description of the ms6 downpipe: Vband disconnect at turbo for modular use and future expansion So yeah I think its designed partially do you can upgrade or convert flanges. It's 3" I think so it should mate to tial vband out. I'd also suggest .82AR but of course .63 will give better spool. I just think that one of the reasons to move from stock hotside is because the ATP housing is .55AR so there are flow gains to be had by increasing AR

I read that the same way on ATP's description and was under the same impression yet no one has ever referenced doing this. Most guys are getting custom DP's made which I can easily do but it just seems weird. Obviously removing the stock flange from te equation is gonna move the dp left and I haven't looked deep enough to know if that's gonna cause any clearance issues. I guess that's a question all have to do some research on. Probably contact ATP direct. It would be sweet to find out that it will work!!

I also had the same thoughts when it came to A/R but after reading that thread from Bushur, when tested the two housings offered the same spool and same overall hp/tq curve through redline. So I'm still a little undecided there.

@ms3blackmica - what a/r are you running right now?? Most companies were running the .63 but I now see CPE using the .82

[Alpha]

Oh no, I live in Chicago with 93 octane and E85 everywhere, but when we went to pickup the car from Full-Race and tuned it on the dyno out there that was all they had so... : /

The car runs much better here on good gas.

Yeah, I could be impatient and run 6th port, but I'd just like to see the cleanliness and more efficient PI setup find it's way onto the car rather than modify my cold piping etc. Plus a good intake manifold SHOULD help efficiency as well.

Until then, the car's running great and I really can't complain.

Here's a video of me racing my buddy's 500rwhp cammed LS3 Camaro:

YouTube Short

YouTube Short

I was really surprised he couldn't come around me, but hey!

[mychicksix]

Damn brother! She does scoot out pretty good off the bottom! Gotta love AWD for that low end yank when she wakes up!!!

What gears does your buddy have in the Camaro?? Reminds me of my mustang with the stock 3.08's! With the 6sp he'd definitely benefit from something in the 400's!

But hell of a run for sure and your car looks sexy as hell! Are those 19's?? IMPRESSIVE!!

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by mychicksix Damn brother! She does scoot out pretty good off the bottom! Gotta love AWD for that low end yank when she wakes up!!! What gears does your buddy have in the Camaro?? Reminds me of my mustang with the stock 3.08's! With the 6sp he'd definitely benefit from something in the 400's! But hell of a run for sure and your car looks sexy as hell! Are those 19's?? IMPRESSIVE!!

Thanks man! Yeah, gotta love that EFR torque.

He's on the stock gearset (Maybe 3:42s) and he'd step up but he's on 20" DRs.

Thanks, mine are custom 20x9".

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by Alpha Thanks man! Yeah, gotta love that EFR torque. He's on the stock gearset (Maybe 3:42s) and he'd step up but he's on 20" DRs. Thanks, mine are custom 20x9".

Holy shit man, wouldn't have guessed you were rolling on dub's!! And it's quick as shit!! The car looks right though! I long thought of running 19's but I don't want to hurt acceleration and the roads around here BLOW!! I don't know what they weigh or what your overall diameter is but I'd imagine you'd notice a huge difference on some light weight 17's or 18's.

As for your buddy, I'm pretty sure you're togjt on that spec. But I've seen several a newer big power Camaros running 22's! As long as it's a decent wheel he'll be fine. Those motors have long legs and they like top end. Make it turn some R's. As long as he can keep the tires under it in sure he'll be pleased. And those cars are almost mini tubbed from the factory so I'm sure he could get some decent sneakers under it.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by mychicksix Holy shit man, wouldn't have guessed you were rolling on dub's!! And it's quick as shit!! The car looks right though! I long thought of running 19's but I don't want to hurt acceleration and the roads around here BLOW!! I don't know what they weigh or what your overall diameter is but I'd imagine you'd notice a huge difference on some light weight 17's or 18's. As for your buddy, I'm pretty sure you're togjt on that spec. But I've seen several a newer big power Camaros running 22's! As long as it's a decent wheel he'll be fine. Those motors have long legs and they like top end. Make it turn some R's. As long as he can keep the tires under it in sure he'll be pleased. And those cars are almost mini tubbed from the factory so I'm sure he could get some decent sneakers under it.

Hell yeah man... My custom Rennens are each actually 3 lbs lighter than the stock 18s

Yeah, he's goin turbo next season, after barley hangin with my 4 cylinder on low boost haha, so things should get interesting

[mychicksix]

Originally Posted by Alpha Hell yeah man... My custom Rennens are each actually 3 lbs lighter than the stock 18s Yeah, he's goin turbo next season, after barley hangin with my 4 cylinder on low boost haha, so things should get interesting

Yeah I can imagine him being a little butt hurt about that but then again, it's no ordinary 4cyl! Those LS3's respond well to a 90mm monster. That'll definitely change the game! On second thought, maybe he should hang on to those gears. Lol