Gtx2867 or Gt2871

[Waterbug17]

So my little ko4 is smoking more than Cheech and Chong, time for a new setup. Got around a 1700 dollar budget and I'm not sure which to choose, gtx2867 or gt2871? I'm fully bolted(stock manis) and running meth at the moment. Any pros and cons for each? Or other suggestions for other setups?

[snailD]

you will get some extra flow on the GTX, but they will be fairly similar to be honest. the gt has a better price and the gtx has a better sound/more possible power to be had. a gt3071 will spool a little slower but will be cheaper than the gtx28 and offer the roughly the same if not more power

[Waterbug17]

Most likely can't afford EWG, which is safest to run IWG with?

[snailD]

Originally Posted by Waterbug17 Most likely can't afford EWG, which is safest to run IWG with?

all are just fine for iwg. i did some porting on mine just for preventative measure but if you aren't doing a shit ton of porting head/mani wise or running a big catless exhaust/huge intake you should be just fine. freek only had to port his 2867 when he got the head ported and it opened up a bunch of flow (which most people dont do)

[Waterbug17]

Alright, mods are in my sig but I'm CNT catless and ported an polished intake mani. Hopefully alright but I can port of needed

[Justin@Freektune]

Both turbos will end up with similar power. But the gtx does sound pretty sweet

[YABBAMZR]

+1 on the gtx...You will be happy with it once you hear it.

Who tuned your car?

[Mazdazilla6]

In b4 best sounding turbo questions

[NCspecV81]

GTX3067r?

[speed3 britz]

Originally Posted by NCspecV81 GTX3067r?

This is what Im picking up after I sell the BNR

BTW @Waterbug17; I have a new BNR S3 V1 for sale if you're interested, has a 2871 CHRA. PM me if youre interested

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Pretty sure I heard @speed3 britz; had a turbo for sale. @maisonvi;

[maisonvi]

what are your power goals?

[mituc]

To be honest I'm not sure if a GT/GTX28 worth the money over a BNR S3, since as far as I know they push about the same amount of air in their efficiency range (which is also similar, maybe the S3 has it shifted like 200rpm lower in the rev range at the same boost). If you have the money to spend on a GT/GTX I'd personally go with the GTX3071.

The 3076 may be a bit too laggy for daily driving but not horrible, but for sure it will be too large for what the stock block can handle also considering that your engine will make quite a lot of power from timing rather than air flow (which is why a GT/GTX28 or a BNR S3 may be a lot better for you, and you will also have an awesome response down low as well).

[maisonvi]

Originally Posted by mituc To be honest I'm not sure if a GT/GTX28 worth the money over a BNR S3, since as far as I know they push about the same amount of air in their efficiency range (which is also similar, maybe the S3 has it shifted like 200rpm lower in the rev range at the same boost). If you have the money to spend on a GT/GTX I'd personally go with the GTX3071. The 3076 may be a bit too laggy for daily driving but not horrible, but for sure it will be too large for what the stock block can handle also considering that your engine will make quite a lot of power from timing rather than air flow (which is why a GT/GTX28 or a BNR S3 may be a lot better for you, and you will also have an awesome response down low as well).

This is my thoughts exactly. I cant speak from experience, but I feel on the stock block, the BNR is the way to go. It can easily push high 300s with the proper mods and give great performance. If you are looking to go for higher numbers, I would go to a bigger frame. For the savings, the BNR seems to be the way to go, and you can put the extra $500 towards an exhaust manifold or something.

[NCspecV81]

The 3067 spools almost identically to the gtx2867.

[Justin@Freektune]

Some notable mentions though. The 3067r and 2867r have the same compressor map, but the 3067 spools a little slower. I just tuned a 3067 and honestly there was no real difference in power from what we could make on a 28 series turbo. My own personal preference is 2871/2867/BNR, or just go to a 3076.

[mituc]

3067 or 3076? There is a 3067 on the market? Because now I'm confused a bit...

[speed3 britz]

Originally Posted by mituc 3067 or 3076? There is a 3067 on the market? Because now I'm confused a bit...

GTX3067R... 67mm compressor (same as on the GTX2867R) but mated to a GT30 Turbine housing

[Waterbug17]

Most likely going with the Gtx2867 with EWG hotside, if edge will do that, if not IWG it is and the reason I'm not going with the 30 series is because they're more susceptible to creep. Don't have the money for a new mani/ EWG at the moment.

[Waterbug17]

So here's the update... Gtx2867 ready to drop in. Pretty excited!

[6onSpeed]

Good choice. Me likes my GTX2867r
Prob is it's still big enough that I'm going to build my motor in July. I wanna max that bitch out.
Nothing to do with my high mileage…well maybe lol

[JDMCRX]

Nice choice for a stock block. Interested in seeing some vids.

[Jeff23spl]

i'm surprise that gtx3067 exist...i would expect the turbine is a little bit large for just a 67 mm compressor ....i would stick with a GTX2867R if GT28 used and go for GTX3071r if gt30 turbine is choosen and with some plans for a build engine.

I went with gt2871 for lower price at the time but i would pay the extra for the X today....

i examined flow chart alot: these turbo and the X add 1-2mm to the compressor wheel and the max flow reach the one of 1 step larger compressor size and can also handle more pressure ratio before surging (combined with a small turbine it is helpfull) while spooling at the speed of the small size wheels.


At minor difference close:
GTX2867 = GT2871
GTX3071 = GT3076
GTX3076 = GT3582

Bad side is the X wheel it isn't a bolt on for non X housing because it is a little bit larger unless the housing would be machined to fit the wheel.
I don't know if there is any other???


With turbo back and 3'' intake, my unported gt2871 was only creeping a little bit during winter (real north winter temp.) time at 23psi with a 14psi spring. unless someone gonna try to run lower boost than k04, it should be fine for this with IWG.
The issue i had was surging at 3000-3500 when trying to reach max boost as soon as possible. I was still using a 2.64'' MSP IM and when i switched for 3-3.25'', the lower restriction at intake side was enough to clear the issue.

[Waterbug17]

Today is the day, HTP 3 in intake and tip finally came in, so the Gtx is ready to roll. Is there any break in period needed and if so what should I be doing.

[Code Monkey]

You will need a MAF calibration, once you dialed it in, happy WOTing ensues.

[Waterbug17]

All kinds of trouble with today, first of all HTP's 3in intake and tip have AWFUL Fitment. Second, the couple coming from my FMIC to my turbo is too short.. So annoyed

[NCspecV81]

My htp fit flawless. Also well documented you need a 2.5 to 2 inch reducing elbow for the turbo to fmic.

[Waterbug17]

Would love to see pictures. Your the first I've heard of it fitting well

[Jeff23spl]

yes you need something to extend the lenght of the discharge of any non oem turbo exept maybe the bnr because the oem discharge as an extended pipe....you could have seen that when comparing both side by side in the last picture.

On my setup, i just use a longer silicone reducer found on ebay...

i don't know for the HTP 3'' full setup but for my custom 3.25'' HTP maf housing coupled to a silicone TIH, i had to cut the retaining bolt that hold the top of the oem TIH to rise my new TIH a little bit higher. This prevent it from rubbing against the small pretone hose. I had a leak few weeks ago on this hose because of it.

[Waterbug17]

Yea jeff, The coupler thing was just me beig a dumbass and overlooking little things because I was too excited, do you happen to know how long the coupler you got was?

[Jeff23spl]

mine is 3.5'' 2'' to 2.5'' because my piping is 2.5 but my first metal pipe start with a 90 so it ii (and was with the k04) straight from the discharge with a silicone 3.5''long coupler to the 90 metal pipe.

BTW, dont forget to carefully clean it with brake cleaner and spray some glue or hair fix stuff to help the holding resistance. Mine just pop out and knocked the hood 2-3 times before i decided to make bed at the end of each pipe.
If you found longer than 3.5'', it may help but it is hard to find at a reasonable price.

[Waterbug17]

So I figured everything out and it's running great just waiting on my next map.

[Focusfanatic01]

how many miles before your stock turbo started smoking?

[Mazdazilla6]

I'm curious as to why Garrett doesn't make a gtx2871

[twenty5psi]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 I'm curious as to why Garrett doesn't make a gtx2871

The biggest 10-blade GTX wheel is 67mm and that is already more than the GT28 turbine can handle.

The GTX3067R exists because it's a better Compressor/Turbine match, the 71mm 11-blade GTX wheel would be WAY to much compressor for the GT28 turbine.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by twenty5psi The biggest 10-blade GTX wheel is 67mm and that is already more than the GT28 turbine can handle. The GTX3067R exists because it's a better Compressor/Turbine match, the 71mm 11-blade GTX wheel would be WAY to much compressor for the GT28 turbine.

i agree as the balance between compressor and turbine is important, all the added flow must also pass thru the turbine and if it is too small, it just won't work!
I just have the old fashion gt2871r and it is at some point hard on the exaust restriction side and easy to surge on our 2.3 engine. It give the same power at higher pressure level and rpm (more heat) and if we adjust it to spool as fast as we can, it is enough to rise above it's curve when powered by the gas of our 2.3 even without any engine flow improvement made to the head. So i could easily imagine someone making an hybride gtx2871r (or a gt2876r) that would be able to make 30-35psi but maybe not much more than 400hp at some terrific BAT to melt down the pistons.

I really like the spool of my gt28 but for longevity, one may consider a larger turbine to get the same flow at higher speed but at lower bat and pressure

[MazdaBoy2.3]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl i agree as the balance between compressor and turbine is important, all the added flow must also pass thru the turbine and if it is too small, it just won't work! I just have the old fashion gt2871r and it is at some point hard on the exaust restriction side and easy to surge on our 2.3 engine. It give the same power at higher pressure level and rpm (more heat) and if we adjust it to spool as fast as we can, it is enough to rise above it's curve when powered by the gas of our 2.3 even without any engine flow improvement made to the head. So i could easily imagine someone making an hybride gtx2871r (or a gt2876r) that would be able to make 30-35psi but maybe not much more than 400hp at some terrific BAT to melt down the pistons. I really like the spool of my gt28 but for longevity, one may consider a larger turbine to get the same flow at higher speed but at lower bat and pressure

When you say longevity are you referring to the motor or the turbo itself?

Sorry I'm a noob...

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by MazdaBoy2.3 When you say longevity are you referring to the motor or the turbo itself?

both!

What makes power from an engine isn't boost pressure but air flow passing thru it.!
What is going in, have to go out of it!
To flow 300g/s into a GT30 turbine it is easier than flowing it into a GT28 turbine or even worse thru a k04 turbine. The same 300g/s will be achieved at a lower pressure proportional to the turbine size. But the exaust energy taken by the turbine is reverse proportional. Meaning, it will take more time to spool and will need more engine rpm/exaust energy to get a larger turbine to catch the same power and transmit it on the turbo shaft, to turn the compressor wheel.
But Less pressure = less BAT. Less bat = less knock and lower combustion temperature and stress into the engine.

For the turbo itself, the smaller is the turbine, the more temperature rise will happend on the turbo because of the higher restriction for the exaust gaz. Higher temp mean higher stress.
But sometimes smaller assembly may spin faster and worn faster too...

So the main point about longevity is probably more an engine concern as long as the turbo is a well made one, capable of supporting the hight T and lubricated with an oil capable of suporting the higher T also.

At the end of the day, put a GT3582R on your engine but limit the wastegate to get not more than 300whp and it will make far less stress on your engine than overclocking a K04 to get it up to 300whp. But you may get your 300whp at 5000 rpm (I don't know) instead of 4000. and the other problem is a human remain human and won't resist to the envy of opening it to more until the bloc explode. This is why a GTX2867R/GT2871r remain a very nice dayly driving turbo

[cshunter]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl i agree as the balance between compressor and turbine is important, all the added flow must also pass thru the turbine and if it is too small, it just won't work! I just have the old fashion gt2871r and it is at some point hard on the exaust restriction side and easy to surge on our 2.3 engine. It give the same power at higher pressure level and rpm (more heat) and if we adjust it to spool as fast as we can, it is enough to rise above it's curve when powered by the gas of our 2.3 even without any engine flow improvement made to the head. So i could easily imagine someone making an hybride gtx2871r (or a gt2876r) that would be able to make 30-35psi but maybe not much more than 400hp

Ehhh a little off.

Two gtx2867 examples.

SnailD I believe was a stock engine, around 28psi, made over 400

Atvfreek on his built engine with head work irc, made around 440 and I want to say around 24-28psi.

Sent from my Evil Nexus 5

[mituc]

Originally Posted by cshunter Ehhh a little off. Two gtx2867 examples. SnailD I believe was a stock engine, around 28psi, made over 400 Atvfreek on his built engine with head work irc, made around 440 and I want to say around 24-28psi.

Different fuelling means that at the same air flow values (even boost may be the same on similar/identical turbos) one can run more timing.
You can get 350bhp from a K04 with meth and E85 mixes, or you can get 350bhp running a GT/GTX 30 series on pump gas only. So, same turbo and way different power levels can mean two things:
1. one of the tuners who tunes those cars was a bit more crazy/determined;
2. one of the cars was running on different fuelling (more meth in the WMI tank, more E inthe fuel tank, or both, which allowed for more timing).