My experience installing and tuning BNR stage 3

[nofear72784]

Ok so I finally got my BNR stage 3 dialed in and figured I would give a little feedback. I expected this to go super easy and ran into quite a few snags. First off the turbo looks top notch! Hats off to Bryan for the quality build. He includes crush washers, oil return gasket and a banjo fitting that has a nipple on it to reroute your coolant return. First off here are some parts you will need to complete this without having to run to the store.

1 foot of 5/16th's line to reroute the coolant return
1 foot quarter inch vacuum line
1 vacuum line T
2 5/16th's hose clamps
Zip ties
.8mm and 1mm Mig welding tips
1 gallon of coolant

Installation issues:
I had a HELL of a time removing the oil return line!
The turbo is larger but I found that removing the EGR allowed me to slip it in there.

How to use the stock WGA solenoid with the BNR stage 3:
Use 3" of the vacuum line you got slide 1 of the mig welding tips into the middle (its safer to start with the larger 1mm tip to prevent spiking)
Attach one end of that to the reference nipple on the turbo
Connect a vacuum T to the other side
Use another 3" of the tubing and run it to the WGA
You now have 1 open port on the T, take the last 6" and attach that to the solenoid
you need a longer tube because there are no holes to bolt the solenoid onto the turbo
Attach the bleed line back to your turbo inlet tube
I Zip tied my solenoid onto the egr harness

Tuning:
For the first drive I loaded up a map I made with the WGA set to 20 and 15psi boost targets. This was made off of an older v1 map I was using before. This gave me VERY slow spool and I couldn't hit my targets. Upped the WGA, no change. I updated the AP and modified a new V2 map and tried again. Very odd... WGA was always showing 0. Here was what fixed it. The actuator on this is adjustable albeit a total PIA to get to when on the car. I TIGHTENED to rod 2 turns to apply more preload to the WG. Drove again, much better. Drove it this way for a day, 150 miles to break everything in. Tried to up the targets and it just couldn't get past 19 and was still slow to spool. I removed the 1mm restrictor and put in the .8mm. Night and day difference! Had full control again over the WGA and spooling was greatly improved. After all was said and done I did find that this WGA takes quite a bit to hit targets with the stock solenoid but this combination worked very well. It build boost quickly, only goes over the target by 1 psi then settles back down and holds perfectly.

Driving impressions.... wow it's nice to not die in the top end! Slightly slower spool than stock but it still makes more lower end power and just keeps pulling. The improved powerband makes the car so much more fun to drive. I find it to be more than enough power for a DD. Overall I would deff recommend it to anyone looking to ditch the smoking K04 that doesn't want to go balls out looking for maximum power.

Just so you don't have to search... here's this mornings virtual dyno runs. Screenshot is the untitled.doc attached. Made 4 runs this was the middle run and all were within 6hp and 12tq. This is my crappy tune that I threw together.. will post another after my PERM! Discuss

[zenger]

where you located your car sounds identical to mine

[nofear72784]

I'm in Connecticut. Hows your BNR holding up? What was your experience with the tuning?

[manselainen]

I'm seriously considering this, thanks for sharing.

[zenger]

Originally Posted by nofear72784 I'm in Connecticut. Hows your BNR holding up? What was your experience with the tuning?

running strong.

@phate tuned

[aviator79]

Originally Posted by nofear72784 I'm in Connecticut. Hows your BNR holding up? What was your experience with the tuning?

Still in CT? Or did you get rid of the MS6?

[PhorB13]

Originally Posted by nofear72784 I'm in Connecticut. Hows your BNR holding up? What was your experience with the tuning?

Where in CT are you? I'd love to get a BNR upgraded turbo at some point. Even just a stage 1.

[G Sp33dy]

Originally Posted by zenger where you located your car sounds identical to mine

and YOURS sounds identical to MINE! :O

[TiGraySpeed6]

Nice write-up- Thanks!


edit to add question- curious about fueling demands, if there's any benefit to tinkering with the injectors for a bnrs3

[nofear72784]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Nice write-up- Thanks! edit to add question- curious about fueling demands, if there's any benefit to tinkering with the injectors for a bnrs3

not quite sure by what you mean tinkering with the injectors..... all I have as far as fuel is Autotech internals and I slightly bumped the FP to 1710.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 Nice write-up- Thanks! edit to add question- curious about fueling demands, if there's any benefit to tinkering with the injectors for a bnrs3

On pure pump, not really. Once you start mixing E85 (you really need a octane boost E85 or Meth to run more than 19-20psi) you can take them right to the limit. In 70deg ambients I was hitting 95% IDC, I have not done a WOT log recently, but in the cooler air I imagine this has gone over 100%

This turbo is well suited to the stock injector fueling capabilities. It leave just a small amount of headroom on the fueling capacity.

[nofear72784]

Originally Posted by Ziggo On pure pump, not really. Once you start mixing E85 (you really need a octane boost E85 or Meth to run more than 19-20psi) you can take them right to the limit. In 70deg ambients I was hitting 95% IDC, I have not done a WOT log recently, but in the cooler air I imagine this has gone over 100% This turbo is well suited to the stock injector fueling capabilities. It leave just a small amount of headroom on the fueling capacity.

Your having knock issues over 19-20 psi on pump? Whats your timing table look like? Running the cobb v2 stage 2 tmic table on Mobil/Shell 93 with a degree or 2 added. It's not very aggressive but at 22-23 psi I have 0 issues... I have the meth kit installed but not running it since I installed the BNR... just don't have the time to tune it properly right now. Was very surprised to get away with close to the same timing as the k04 with meth.

[S-hendrix]

Amazing what a .2 mm difference for the restrictor can make. I'll keep this turbo in mind for potential upgrades. Thanks for the write-up.

[dizzydtrain]

This is turbo is on top of my list as an upgrade. I was thinking about a GTX but I don't track my car and don't care for stupid high power. More reliability and useful powerband is what I am after and this seems to fit the bill.

Although it does seem like the install is not as straight forward as I thought. I have been following @Ziggo install and tuning thread with his BNR.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by dizzydtrain This is turbo is on top of my list as an upgrade. I was thinking about a GTX but I don't track my car and don't care for stupid high power. More reliability and useful powerband is what I am after and this seems to fit the bill. Although it does seem like the install is not as straight forward as I thought. I have been following @Ziggo install and tuning thread with his BNR.

All of the above, plus no creeping issues.

[Ziggo]

I don't know what the OTS Cobb timing is, but I was limited to 9* peak timing at 11.2AFR on pump during the heat of the summer. I picked up something like 70whp by leaning it out to 12.0 and moving to 17* peak timing on a 3/9 mix of E85. I am making just under 400whp with this turbo now.

FYI my install thread:
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/forum/showthread.php?t=88946

My tuning thread
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/forum/showthread.php?t=89309

Zigatapatalka

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Ziggo I don't know what the OTS Cobb timing is, but I was limited to 9* peak timing at 11.2AFR on pump during the heat of the summer. I picked up something like 70whp by leaning it out to 12.0 and moving to 17* peak timing on a 3/9 mix of E85. I am making just under 400whp with this turbo now. FYI my install thread: BNR S3 Swap How To - Mazdaspeed Forums My tuning thread ATR tuning A BNR Stage 3 - Mazdaspeed Forums Zigatapatalka

Some places have better gas than others. Locally I am limited to 10* at 20psi on the K04 and AFRs are in the 10s to make it work. Otherwise I am limited to 8* and the 2* gain in timing is worth the richer AFRs.

At the same psi, the BNR should run cooler which will help with knock.

[AtTheDriveIn]

And no smoke! Seriously considering between this and a GT28. Im not looking for a unicorn, just a way to get rid of my smoking turbo.

[BigjohnB20]

Sounds good OP. Got any logs you can share?

Oh yea, I haven't really looked, but does anyone know how the Stg3 lines up price wise vs. the Gt(x) series? I know you need a core for the BNR and some of the vendors here are around 1600 for the Garrets. Just curious how they compare

[dizzydtrain]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 All of the above, plus no creeping issues.

Exactly, I forgot that one.

Originally Posted by AtTheDriveIn And no smoke! Seriously considering between this and a GT28. Im not looking for a unicorn, just a way to get rid of my smoking turbo.

This solution is pretty great. I think Ziggo (BNR stg3) and Ck( who has a GT28) were comparing logs in one of Ziggo's threads and the power is very comprable.

Originally Posted by BigjohnB20 Sounds good OP. Got any logs you can share? Oh yea, I haven't really looked, but does anyone know how the Stg3 lines up price wise vs. the Gt(x) series? I know you need a core for the BNR and some of the vendors here are around 1600 for the Garrets. Just curious how they compare

It's 1200 like Finkle said plus core. The one nice thing is that you can get a cheap used core on the site and keep your original k04, especially if it's stil good. I plan on getting a used core on this site and sending it in (if i go this route). If at any point I sell or part out, I still have my good k04 to put it back to stock.

The used core doesn't have to be rebuildable but should have a good turbine housing in order for Brian at BRN to work his magic.

[rfinkle2]

BNR S3 = $1200.00

info here:
bnrsupercars.com

Its finally here! The BNR 2871 is in production! Here is the finished product! Bolt on, minimal fabriaction required! This upgrade is for the customer wanting to reach the limitations of the stock engine without killing response! This is what the upgrade includes:

GT2871 compressor wheel
New GT28 non ball bearing CHRA
360 degree thrust assembly
upgraded wastegate actuator assembly
balanced to or under .5 gram/in2
upgraded compressor housing with custom outlet for the factory intercooler piping/couplers
1 year warranty!

@nofear72784, what did you need the welding tips for?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 @nofear72784, what did you need the welding tips for?

They are for the boost signal line going to the WG solenoid -they are restrictor pills. The flow needs to be limited or the solenoid won't be able to increase boost.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Lex They are for the boost signal line going to the WG solenoid -they are restrictor pills. The flow needs to be limited or the solenoid won't be able to increase boost.

Oh geez. Thanks Lex. Reading fail on my part.

I totally missed that in the first post.

Thanks again to the OP and Lex.

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Lex They are for the boost signal line going to the WG solenoid -they are restrictor pills. The flow needs to be limited or the solenoid won't be able to increase boost.

Or you could just switch to a 3 port at the same time. It's only $100 and you will have to find a place to put the stock solenoid anyway since the 2871 compressor housing on the BNR does not have the stock solenoid mounting feature.


Zigatapatalka

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Ziggo Or you could just switch to a 3 port at the same time. It's only $100 and you will have to find a place to put the stock solenoid anyway since the 2871 compressor housing on the BNR does not have the stock solenoid mounting feature. Zigatapatalka

You have a pic of how you mounted your solenoid?

[Ziggo]

Originally Posted by Lex You have a pic of how you mounted your solenoid?

I mounted it on the front of the battery box per grimspeed's instructions. I am not a big fan of how long that makes the tubes from the boost source/to the WG but I have not seen any ill effects like slow response or boost oscillation.


Zigatapatalka

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Ziggo I mounted it on the front of the battery box per grimspeed's instructions. I am not a big fan of how long that makes the tubes from the boost source/to the WG but I have not seen any ill effects like slow response or boost oscillation. Zigatapatalka

I'll snap a pic of where I have mine mounted when I get home from work.

Ziggo, all the links are busted (to the pics) in your install thread (@ least on my work computer).

[Ziggo]

They seemed to load ok for me, if a bit slow. Here is a picture of the installed grimmspeed ECBS in 3 port mode.





Zigatapatalka

[dereeek]

Good write up. I've been thinking about getting one of these lately.

[rfinkle2]

I had a threaded hole that I able to take advantage of.

Sorry about the link thing Ziggo, must've been my work computer blocking your pics in your thread.

[nofear72784]

Posted virtual dyno run for all those that have asked. It's in the original post.

[crazyp]

for easier pic posting Picasa is free along with free hosting and if you right click the graph in Vdyno you can save as a jpg

Nice build man

[KostasCX-7]

I used a single MBC. The boost "T" (purple on photo) has inside a ball with a spring and works like a restrictor pill. This setup builds boost immidiately and the throttle response is awesome. My tune was based on MBC

[RichB]

If you upgrade to the grimmspeed EBCS do still need a pill?

If you use an MBC inline with the stock boost controller I'm guessing you don't need a pill but do you just set your WGA to 0 and tune with the MBC?

[Ziggo]

The grimmspeed ECBS in 3 port does not need a pill. In two port it probably will but I have no direct experience.


Zigatapatalka

[RichB]

That makes sense. Thanks!

[Ru5tyNut5]

I just installed a BNR stage 3 and so far have 0 control of my boost, just running on the spring. I was unaware that I was to add some kind of "Pill" or restrictor to the line between the turbo and the T so I will try that and hope I gain some sort of control, I'd sure like more than 14 psi....

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Ru5tyNut5 I just installed a BNR stage 3 and so far have 0 control of my boost, just running on the spring. I was unaware that I was to add some kind of "Pill" or restrictor to the line between the turbo and the T so I will try that and hope I gain some sort of control, I'd sure like more than 14 psi....

You can choose to either run a 3 port solenoid or run a Boost Dial with the OEM 2 port if you still have it. Let me know if you have any questions about this.

[Mistersix]

Does the boost dial with the OEM 2 port require any pill size adjustment?

Edit: He's running a 3 port, nevermind.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Mistersix Does the boost dial with the OEM 2 port require any pill size adjustment? Edit: He's running a 3 port, nevermind.

No it does not. All you need to adjust is the dial itself.