Stock Block BT build threads

[xcoldricex]

I wanted to make a consolidated thread of people that are running BT's on the stock block, since I am considering doing this in the near future.

It seems like our rods fly out of the engine because of high load/torque at low rpms. So, our motors may handle BT builds well as long as you don't run excessive boost at <3-3.5k rpm.

I know there are at least a handful of people running BT's on the stock block so far with success - so can we log these?

Please post your builds, dynos, tuning/tuners used, how long you've been running them, problems you've experienced, what made you part out (if you did), advice, etc.

Calling these people:

user name - car model - turbo model - tuning solution - dyno/timeslips - build/info links

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Current Builds:

GT2871

• danems6 - MS6 - ATP - SB/AP - CALLIN ALL BIG TURBO MAZDAS
• dano2010 - MS3 - ATP - AP - BT installed - setup questions
• meeker13 - MS6 - ATP - AP - CALLIN ALL BIG TURBO MAZDAS
• Silverdemon - MS3 - ATP - SB - 345whp/340wtq
• Smoker6 - MS6 - Smoker6 Turbo Sneak Peek

GT3071

• dizzin9
• djuosnteisn - MS6 - T3 .82a/r - SB - 450awhp/540awtq - Progress report; http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...sb-dyno-59440/
• mfquint - MS6 - ATP - SB - Stock Block BT build threads
• gsrtype1
• wette460 - CALLIN ALL BIG TURBO MAZDAS

GT3076

• BrianGT3076/18psiWhiteMS3 - MS3 - ATP - CALLIN ALL BIG TURBO MAZDAS
• BUNGEEZ - MS6 - ATP - BIG TURBO!
• Fagwagon - MS3 - ATP - AP - CALLIN ALL BIG TURBO MAZDAS
• samsel450r - MS3 - ATP - AP - 12.413 @ 115 - CALLIN ALL BIG TURBO MAZDAS
• Superskaterxs - MS6 - ATP - AP - 310awhp/330awtq Mustang - 12.6@111 - CALLIN ALL BIG TURBO MAZDAS

Other:

• kore2000 - MS6 - T3 3561S - CALLIN ALL BIG TURBO MAZDAS
• madvillian - MS3 - some T4 T67 turbo - RR kit received... TuNz of pictures

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Past Builds:

• Darksun280 - MS3 - Turbonetics T04E 60-1 - Cars Done
• Whoosh - MS6 - GT35r - 386awhp/349awtq - http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...28-08-a-10724/

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Blown Motors:

• jlefebvre123 - 3071 - AP - The Big Turbo Progress Thread

• Possibly AP load cap related - Stock Block BT build threads

[MS3-a(sore)ASS-rex]

Good idea making this thread, hopefully I'll be able to post my own build experience soon. Until then, I plan to gain all the knowledge from you guys that I can. Bet of luck to all of you!

[Forcefeed82]

I think a big turbo would help us out because of the added turbo lag would make it near imposable to get out of vac before 3000 rpm. so the stress that the stock turbo was putting on at 2300/2500 rpm is eliminated.

[Smoker6]

Mine is somewhere...GT2871r stock block. 21.5psi, cautious boost below 3k rpm.

[djuosnteisn]

stock block, stock clutch, stock trans

0.82 a/r t3 3071
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...sb-dyno-59440/
450 awhp 527 awtq (corrected, see link above for all info on the dyno).


I've tuned with both AP and SB...

Just keep your head screwed on when tuning and make sure you know what your doing.

IMO there were some serious fueling flaws in the ecu that contributed to many of the blown motors. Couple that with a knock happy motor at 5500 rpm and a deaf knock sensor at 5700 rpm, and it's easy to see how detonation could be common. So when your tuning / modding for power, just take proper precautions to avoid detonation, and baby step your way up to your final tune, and don't touch timing above 5700 rpm without using a dyno.

I honestly think my motor would last a long time at this power level, but only time will tell i guess.

Only problems i've had thus far is a crack happy exh manifold from a long ass dump tube.

Oh and, i still stand by my thoughts that a bigger turbo (read efficient turbo) is SAFER for your block than a over worked stock k04, for obvious reasons.

[xcoldricex]

wow there are a lot more people than i thought - updated OP.

[dizzin9]

i don't have a thread but i have this setup for a few months now, ~7k miles.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by dizzin9 i don't have a thread but i have this setup for a few months now, ~7k miles.

Pssssshhhh, you don't count cause your not running enough boost


haha just keeeeding.

[dizzin9]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Pssssshhhh, you don't count cause your not running enough boost haha just keeeeding.

don't worry i'll be pushin at least 20 soon (with meth)

[Dano]

Originally Posted by dizzin9 don't worry i'll be pushin at least 20 soon (with meth)

now ur talkin!

I just joined the BT crowd with about 1K miles on mine and I agree toatlly with what DJ says about a more efficient BT with just a lil more lag is all goodness for the MZR. I mean if the motor is already knock happy, why push a K04 into the flame thrower zone all the time. I guess that's why everyone runs WMI hahahah

Anyway here are a few logs and things I had to overcome with my build.

BT installed - setup questions

Edit:

Stock block with 33K miles with mods in sig
ATP flanged, IWG, 2871, 14PSI WGA, w stock exmaini and NO Creep
Self tuned with AP
Full spool, currently 20PSI, by 3K RPM and it doesn't stop pullin...period. hit 7.2K rev limit numerous times cuz I am used to the K04 drop off in power....nonexistent with the 28 and it hits RL in a blip. I can't say enough about the power band. I tuned my K04 to not come on until 3K which was already 1K RPM of wasted power for it. Now I can use the full power range of the GT28. I have the 28 start spooling around 2750 and by 3K it is at my target boost and I run it to 7K where I shift and there is absolutely no drop in power. This turbo is what the car should have come with IMO. Not too big and not too small. This is my DD car and I am extremely happy with the results.

[NJSPEED3]

i just received my rr kit i need to get a 3076r ordered and im good to go. Ill likely do this on the stock block for now. I have all the parts to build my motor including flywheel,clutch but need to save to get the work done. Keep my fingers crossed and hope it holds together.

[Snyeed]

great thread, quick and easy reference to find information on the people running BT.

[BUNGEEZZ]

SUP BITCHEZZZZZZZZZZZ

[gsrtype1]

GT3071r yo.

[xcoldricex]

more details please!

also are most of these people running ATP turbos?

[Deadman]

i know of another running blow through MAF and gt35r

[xcoldricex]

please give more information guys - how long you've been running them, tuning, atp vs. t3, impressions/dynos, etc. that information is what will make this thread useful.

links to build threads if you have them too so i don't have to search through your post history

also any stock block BT popped motors in recent history? i can't think of any.

[djuosnteisn]

I've been running a 3071 for quite a while now, probably close to a year. And i'm not very "easy" on my car. When i drive it, i drive it hard. It's not dd, but it's also not pampered in anyway.

I ran originally with an atp hotside and stock exh mani. Then i had creep so i blocked iwg and went with a pg mani ewg setup. Both those setups were tuned with AP, and i think i made like 38X corrected with the pg mani. Then i went t3 0.82 hotside, and switch to cp-e SB cause i had fueling (load) issues with AP. I also upgraded the exh mani to a DCR one off mani with 2" runners. This last setups was wrapped up like 2 weeks ago, and aside from the lil headaches here and there, my car is amazing. That's when i started making 450awhp and a whopping 540awtq.


As far as tuning goes. It's pretty simple, always start from a safe point, and take baby steps toward your final goal. Be patient. Shit will go wrong, just take your time and you'll get it ironed out. Also, it's alot more work when you change alot at once, and sometimes makes the troubleshooting more difficult.

Shit i still have like 3 current issues with my car i still have to iron out, but all in due time And it still runs fucking amazing right now! So happy with it hahahaha. Hopefully it doesn't blow up too soon.

[xcoldricex]

wtf? did i miss these 450/540 dynos?!

thanks for the very informative posts dustin. just curious - have you tried your old tunes with the load cap removed? wondering if cobb's fix really allows AP users to make more power. i'm setup to run both the AP and the SB/PNP with flashes. i started out with flashes way back with an SST, but never turned up boost. the SST crapped out on me right before I was going to turn up boost with the AP.

I think it'd be useful to really show what tuning solution is capable of making more power. I was going to try both if the AP can calibrate to a larger MAF size.

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex wtf? did i miss these 450/540 dynos?! thanks for the very informative posts dustin. just curious - have you tried your old tunes with the load cap removed? wondering if cobb's fix really allows AP users to make more power. i'm setup to run both the AP and the SB/PNP with flashes. i started out with flashes way back with an SST, but never turned up boost. the SST crapped out on me right before I was going to turn up boost with the AP. I think it'd be useful to really show what tuning solution is capable of making more power. I was going to try both if the AP can calibrate to a larger MAF size.

If you have the CP-e flashes, you can no longer use the AP. Or at least that's how i understand it. They scramble some stuff so that the AP doesn't recognize the vehicle anymore or something like that.

But honestly, since i've gone SB, i don't think i'd want to go back to an AP. SB is just so much faster and easier to tune with. Only like 3 tables to play with, and you can make tweaks real time. Until AP offers something similar, i wouldn't even consider it.

In fact i was just tuning my buddy's car last friday with an AP, and it sucked cause we had to pull over, turn the car off, flash the car, turn it on, do a pull, bla bla bla.


I'm also curious to see if the AP can turn out some #'s too! I mean it kinda does on some cars, like brian's. His power and mine uncorrected are pretty damn similar (my torque is still outrageous).

But i guarantee if he brought his car up to my elevation, it'd be pretty damn sobering for him. He'd effectively be losing 2.5psi, which is a considerable amount of power. Even anthony knows now from when he was here. It's hard to make high hp #'s at 5500 ft hahaha.

My dyno thread is in the dyno section, called "car's no longer acting a fool".

[Dano]

haters gonna hate....


I love spending 4 minutes of "quality" time with my car while flashing a new map.


And you can't run both the CPE flashes and AP. Swap SB and AP yes, but not with flashes which is where the powa is unlocked so there is no way to do a back to back test. I would suspect CPE currently has the advantage.

[xcoldricex]

i've had the flashes and just loaded an AP map on top of it - i think it'd just disable the flashes though since it's flashing the whole thing... but i never had any compatibility problems (AP not working when I originally had flashes - I just saved my SB flashed ECU to the AP)

yeah, i read that thread - i was experiencing the same stuttering/bucking recently on the stock turbo. I haven't had it since I transferred the map to the no load cap ATR and raised the load limits though.

[Dano]

hum...interesting. I guess you just over wrote the flashes. so if you wanted to spend some coin you could tune to your best with the AP, dyno, then send the ECU off to CP-E get the flashes then tune with the SB and see where you ended up.

Edit: hahahah i forgot about DJs lil pac man demo on the dyno. good stuff!

[xcoldricex]

Originally Posted by Dano2010 hum...interesting. I guess you just over wrote the flashes. so if you wanted to spend some coin you could tune to your best with the AP, dyno, then send the ECU off to CP-E get the flashes then tune with the SB and see where you ended up. Edit: hahahah i forgot about DJs lil pac man demo on the dyno. good stuff!

yeah well the flashes should be saved to the AP when you save your original map. either way, i'm going to have to send it to cp-e anyway to get the "wall flash" or whatever and they can just reload all the other flashes i already had/paid for.

[djuosnteisn]

My car was NOT a happy camper at that time.

[BUNGEEZZ]

I WANT TO SEE DYNO!!!!!!!!!! MR DJ!!! MAKE MOVESS!!!

[djuosnteisn]

All my dyno stuff is in the dyno section.

If your saying you wanted to see my pac-man unhappy dyno, it was called, "cars acting a fool".

[SilverDemon]

ATP GT 2871
Stock Block
15psi
fully bolted
PnP stock intake mani
DNP Exhaust mani
Tune before load cap and Large MAF housing 345whp and 340wtqu
Starting a new tune from scratch since CP-E's load cut flash was done
Building a motor here > Short Block Is Done

[11cruzito11]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon ATP GT 2871 Stock Block 15psi fully bolted PnP stock intake mani DNP Exhaust mani Tune before load cap and Large MAF housing 345whp and 340wtqu Starting a new tune from scratch since CP-E's load cut flash was done Building a motor here > Short Block Is Done

345whp 340wtq @ 15 psi? was this with the SB?

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by 11cruzito11 345whp 340wtq @ 15 psi? was this with the SB?

[Dano]

Originally Posted by SilverDemon ATP GT 2871 Stock Block 15psi fully bolted PnP stock intake mani DNP Exhaust mani Tune before load cap and Large MAF housing 345whp and 340wtqu Starting a new tune from scratch since CP-E's load cut flash was done Building a motor here > Short Block Is Done

man! those numbers make me want to get on the dyno sooner rather than later to see what my setup will do.

[xcoldricex]

just some more background on jlefebvre123's motor

Originally Posted by jlefebvre123 That stutter I had was followed by a loud ticking (bent rod). But before that I'm pretty sure I was hitting load cap when I'd floor it in 4th gear it would stutter a little but in 3rd it wouldn't have a problem (I was only hitting 17psi) though and 4th was 20psi and all others above 4 were also 20 btw. I was racing a mustang and was getting this hesitation, like the engine was fighting itself (still won). I'm very adament about monitoring all my ratios, trims, and values. Honestly nothing stood out or looked out of the ordinary, I ran afrs in the high tens up top and 11s down low, fuel pressure in the 1700-1800 range, BATs in the 60s, I run a 50/50 water meth mix, 20psi of boost. I was one of the lucky ones cause I only bent a rod or two, never cracked my block. My tuner deals with more subaraus and imports, but in his opinion mine were bent due to to much POWAAAA!!!!!

[spoonher]

2006 ms6

atp gt3071r
dnp mani
ewg'd dnp mani (sitting in garage)
tial 44mm ewg (sitting in garage)
atp dp
dtuned fmic (sitting in garage)
magnaflow cbe (sitting in garage)
cpe big tip/xl xcel sri
cpe fp
sb plus all flashes

no dyno as all parts havent been installed. DJ was my mentor on this whole build and i'm pretty damn satisfied with the car. Just installed cpe fp on saturday and have yet to turn up the boost on it but should be pushing 21-22psi after tonight assuming tuning goes well.

[xcoldricex]

Originally Posted by mfquint 2006 ms6 atp gt3071r dnp mani ewg'd dnp mani (sitting in garage) tial 44mm ewg (sitting in garage) atp dp dtuned fmic (sitting in garage) magnaflow cbe (sitting in garage) cpe big tip/xl xcel sri cpe fp sb plus all flashes no dyno as all parts havent been installed. DJ was my mentor on this whole build and i'm pretty damn satisfied with the car. Just installed cpe fp on saturday and have yet to turn up the boost on it but should be pushing 21-22psi after tonight assuming tuning goes well.

and he didn't tell you to get a 3076 or bigger?

[spoonher]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex and he didn't tell you to get a 3076 or bigger?

hahahahha when we started I was just looking for 350awhp...I wasnt aiming big and was sort of budgeted. now I wish I would have gone 35r. oh well. I can always sell my setup and go bigger.

[madvillain]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn If your not stupid with your tune, a BT is safer than a flame thrower k04. Just saying...

<3

[djuosnteisn]

Originally Posted by madvillain <3

[xcoldricex]

is your iwg ported? i saw a definitive answer regarding atp's "fixed" turbos - if they are actually fixed or not.

[SilverDemon]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex is your iwg ported? i saw a definitive answer regarding atp's "fixed" turbos - if they are actually fixed or not.

I did my own port job on my 2871, I get just a tad of creep on the top end. This will be switched over to an ewg when the build is done...

[spoonher]

Originally Posted by xcoldricex is your iwg ported? i saw a definitive answer regarding atp's "fixed" turbos - if they are actually fixed or not.

My IWG is not ported and I have no problems w/creep. I can't wait to go ewg vta...should be fun!