Stock Motor GT2871R

[Swinger13]

In a few weeks or so I'll be swapping the GT28 in. I'm in Canada so we don't have any E85. im considering meth but im on a budget sooooo. The motor will have stock manifolds/internals. I'll look into porting the head and IM if I get turbo mani. Over the project I'll document as much as possible so everyone else can learn from my experience. My goal is 320-350 awhp awtq. Want this to be my DD for the summer.

I plan to build next winter (I'm Canadian I get snow here in copious amounts)

Power:

- GT28 with wastegate hole ported
- Corksport FMIC w/Ram Air intake
- HTP 3 inch inlet
- corksport OCC VTA'd
- 1/8 inch TIG's for TB and IM <-- I fucked up these gaskets (april 11th edit)
- ebay DP
- BSD
- Oil pan baffle
- Greddy type rs BPV
- CPE seals and studs
- Grimmspeed EBCS
- EGR delete

I plan to get all motor mounts (maybe on the front mm)

Might be missing other stuff but ill update if need be.

Leave any feedback/comments/questions/suggestions everyone!!!

EDIT: Switching to JBR TIGS 1/16" thick because I messed up the SURE TIGS and had quick access to the JBR tigs. (April 11th)

[Swinger13]

So I started doing the oil pan work today putting in the BSD and baffle pan. Not done yet but all in all it's straight forward; just takes time and an extra set of hands ( @speed23; ) helps a lot.

The monster scared me when I pulled the pan off.
image-3975737859.jpg


the guts look healthy.
crankshaft girdle pic.png


The oil pan got a makeover. I don't have a pic of the oil pan when I pulled it off but not all the oil drains. It sits in that low pocket the size of a wallet below the drain hole. The way I ended up cleaning it was by spraying a TON of engine degreaser; let it sit for a minute to absorb and it just pours out. Then wipe it out afterwards.
image-1794532070.jpg



Chris hard at work. @speed23;
image-1800262592.jpg



The monster resting in its filth
image-3658998383.jpg



These bolts here really puzzled me. These came with my BSD and baffle pan kit that I ordered from edgeautosport.com. These bolts don't appear to go anywhere. If anyone can fill me in on this let me know. The washers are locking washers if you cannot tell.
image-430636954.jpg

[Swinger13]

The dirty valves after 106,000 KMS (metric). The walls of the runners have some grime on it but doesn't restrict flow at all. The valves have aome gunk on them though. A consistency of industrial grease or thick mud. Now I has to clean them.
image-1456070802.jpgimage-2675994993.jpg



The manifold has oil residue in it but it wasn't that bad all in all. Will be cleaning it as well before it goes back on.
image-750173666.jpg


Just taking a break ATM but next is my CPE safe seals and studs. There will be more pics as well.

[Lex]

Yay for another Canadian build!

Here's what I recommend:

Your gas is not bad in Alberta. I suspect you will get to ~330whp before knock becomes a problem. An effective way to deal with this is a with a WMI kit and a D07 or D10 nozzle when funds becomes available.

Consider also getting the following parts:

- A 3 Bar MAP sensor (To tune above 21-21.5psi this sensor is required)
- A 3″ or larger intake (OEM sized intakes generate a cut when getting above 330-340whp). The ram air intake from Corksport is not terribly large if I remember correctly.
- An aftermarket BPV (the OEM BPV starts leaking above 21-22psi)

You can certainly run what you have right now and be in the 300whp territory at around 21psi.

Good luck with the build!

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by Lex Yay for another Canadian build! Here's what I recommend: Your gas is not bad in Alberta. I suspect you will get to ~330whp before knock becomes a problem. An effective way to deal with this is a with a WMI kit and a D07 or D10 nozzle when funds becomes available. Consider also getting the following parts: - A 3 Bar MAP sensor (To tune above 21-21.5psi this sensor is required) - A 3″ or larger intake (OEM sized intakes generate a cut when getting above 330-340whp). The ram air intake from Corksport is not terribly large if I remember correctly. - An aftermarket BPV (the OEM BPV starts leaking above 21-22psi) You can certainly run what you have right now and be in the 300whp territory at around 21psi. Good luck with the build!

First thanks for the reply @Lex; !!!

I plan to run no more than 20 psi. I did port my wastegate hole on my turbo for that reason alone. Based on the picture provided would you still recommend a 3bar?
image-104405701.jpg

Yes the corksport inlet is too tiny with the kit lol I went with the HTP 3 inch inlet instead as it matches with the corksport 3 inch MAF housing/pipe. The air box would be the best part of the intake.

A BPV is on the way as well.

I have a local source for WMI so I'll more than likely be doing that. Best bang for the buck modification.

What's your opinion on my OCC set up? I plan to vent it instead of routing back into the intake.

Here I made a DIY plug I made up where the PCV hose went.
image-3739467918.jpg

And this is how my OCC would set up. The Y fitting receives oil from valve cover and pcv. With a cute little breather to top it off.
image-890263335.jpg

My logic here is to obviously prevent an oily mess in the whole intake system. Also, this would eliminate hot air from the motor being routed back into the intake bringing in colder air. I won't need a check valve either.

[Lex]

Not sure if the porting is enough to stop creep ... but the amount of boost you run should not be based on creep but on your power goals.

For the OCC setup - you don't have any vacuum sources. This is not ideal as there should be a vacuum source on the crankcase in my opinion. The 2 vacuum sources are the turbo inlet and and intake manifold unless you do a PCV pump or exhaust slashcut.

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by Lex Not sure if the porting is enough to stop creep ... but the amount of boost you run should not be based on creep but on your power goals. For the OCC setup - you don't have any vacuum sources. This is not ideal as there should be a vacuum source on the crankcase in my opinion. The 2 vacuum sources are the turbo inlet and and intake manifold unless you do a PCV pump or exhaust slashcut.

Okay. I'm just not sure exactly how much pressure is in the PCV system to justify venting vs vacuuming. I can route it to the inlet as I do still have the fitting for it. At least it's in the coldest air coming in that way and passes through the intercooler first. That way the plug I made up can stay on the manifold.

I'll go ahead and get the 3bar just for giggles. Better safe than sorry.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Swinger13 Okay. I'm just not sure exactly how much pressure is in the PCV system to justify venting vs vacuuming. I can route it to the inlet as I do still have the fitting for it. At least it's in the coldest air coming in that way and passes through the intercooler first. That way the plug I made up can stay on the manifold. I'll go ahead and get the 3bar just for giggles. Better safe than sorry.

You will find out quickly if vacuum is needed. Symptoms are blue smoke, oil consumption, blown dipsticks and oil leaks.

[Swinger13]

So the fuel rail is off; WOO HOO!!! Inwas expecting some gas to pour out of the fuel rail when I was ready to take it off but it still took me by surprise. The new seals look sexy on the injectors

image-1765098937.jpg

[06Speed6]

I dont know what those extra bolts are for either. On my baffle swap I actually used one of the oem ones and the baffle to cover more area, I think I just hammered the oem piece flay on the curled edge and bolted it on top of the new baffle.

Lookin good man

[Swinger13]

Just poured in a quart of oil after fully bolting up the oil pan and no immediate signs of leakage YAY!

if anyone can point me in the right direction on where to put the OCC that would be awesome. If there is vacuum, is it alright to have the OCC above the PCV valve?

Cleaning valves atm with a tooth brush soaked in B12 supplied by @speed23; they be dirtaaaay....

[comcam77]

Good luck, man...

[speedms6]

@Swinger13; this should help with occ stuff: DM | OCC Kits

make sure you hook it up to the intake manifold for vacuum, not the intake preturbo, there wont be enough vacuum there

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by comcam77 Good luck, man...

Thanks I'm gonna need it, The valve cleaning process is super tedious; I'm trying to find the most efficient method right now. I'm also debating just leaving it as is. So far the best method is to take a long screw driver and gently scrape out the gunk, then blow high pressure air on it or a vacuum. If anyone has a better method please let me know lol.

I finally found a good spot for my OCC where the port is below the PCV.

Fuel rail is re-installed with the new seals and studs. Went pretty well there.

Originally Posted by speedms6 @Swinger13; this should help with occ stuff: DM | OCC Kits make sure you hook it up to the intake manifold for vacuum, not the intake preturbo, there wont be enough vacuum there

I ended up not using those spots. I'll take pictures and post later with a mini how to.

EDIT: after some convincing I'm gonna ditch the VTA'd OCC set up after re-thinking. My new thinking is that by having the vacuum it will suck out ALL the pressure in the crank case instead of letting it out by itself.

[Swinger13]

Okay I've made some real good progress tonight.


Found a good spot for my OCC
image-1945372163.jpgimage-363946090.jpg


intake manifold is now back on. I didn't bother putting the foam back on; it looks better without it.
image-635893253.jpg


Intake manifold TIG
image-2740872960.jpg


Oh and how could I forget valves. I found the best efficient way (not necessarily 100 % clean though) was the screw driver/air hose combo. I scraped a lot out with just the screw driver in chunks. The rest of the scraps I blew out which was really effective. Just be prepared for the mess because this shit SHOOTS out when you blow pressured air on the valves; shit would fly a good 5-10 feet lol.


The chunks
image-902286151.jpgimage-3357669427.jpg


Valves before
image-3424644277.jpg


Valves after
image-3197243848.jpg



Now I need to re-install the steering pump, throttle body, intake, top mount (for now), and other stuff I'm probably forgetting. The first phase of the build is almost done (the hardest part)

[Swinger13]

Here's the work/how-to link for my turbo porting.


http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...ng-how-138240/

[Swinger13]

Good news:

The car is back together and running.
image-4240307672.jpg




Bad news:

It's not running perfect, but I kept an open mind to this that these kind of things could happen.

Took a little bit to turn over the first start up. Now it turns over fine

At first glance without any data logging it's a bit chuggy (on the lean side).

My car literally took a shit upon start up. I see this as a good thing though.
image-1728384986.jpgimage-1219837897.jpg




There will be data logs. Oh and no oil leaks!

[maedgo]

Nice build! Motor mounts are a huge plus. Even stock the car just feels better, and shifts great.

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by maedgo Nice build! Motor mounts are a huge plus. Even stock the car just feels better, and shifts great.

Mounts are on the way...

For everyone else...

So the EGR is blocked off I forgot to mention that...

Fuel pressure is holding fine. Which lets me know the pump and seals are working good. No oil leaks. AFR's are super lean around 18-20 ish. STFT's pegged at 25 percent. These were numbers taken just before operating temp at idle.

Can anyone cue in as to why this may be? Could be the lack of unburned fuel because of the EGR delete combined with the extra air flow from cleaner valves?

[Fail_6]

Ran into the same issue, but simple fix was a missing vband clamp for the dp = exhaust leak. Threw one on and lean at idle was fixed, ft's leveled back out

On a side note, meth is a good idea for safely getting 330-350 awhp. I got very close on 93 only with 21 psi, but the knock will reer it's ugly head soon enough

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by PartiAudiMazdarati Ran into the same issue, but simple fix was a missing vband clamp for the dp = exhaust leak. Threw one on and lean at idle was fixed, ft's leveled back out On a side note, meth is a good idea for safely getting 330-350 awhp. I got very close on 93 only with 21 psi, but the knock will reer it's ugly head soon enough

I havent touched my exhaust during this install. Doesn't mean there isn't though. I recently did a MAF cal with @madspd6; as I had a rich idle where trims where STFT's were pegged at -25 percent. So everything is in good working order then I would just have to reverse the MAF cal. I'll try reflashing the old map I was using which gave me the rich idle.

[Fail_6]

True, could just need a maf cal adjustment as well. I'd definitely recommend going over everything one more time, make sure there's no leaks, then if the issue still persist time for a new maf cal

[Swinger13]

So I switched back to the original map and it runs a lot smoother but still needs a MAF cal. AFR's at idle were 16-17 and STFT's pegged again but only around idle rpm range.

I wont be able to do a maf cal or post anything ad my lap top just took a shit on me, now I need a new one fuuuuuck

As for the BSD. I notice a VERY SMALL amount of vibes. Hard to notice actually...and I get to add an extra quart and a half of oil now which is nice.

[speedms6]

you have a leak somewhere, go through everything, intake, tip, intercooler, check all vacuum connections from intake manifold, did you torque down the intake manifold properly? i believe its from the center out and its not too much torque forget the exact numbers. this sounds like a leak somewhere to me

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by speedms6 you have a leak somewhere, go through everything, intake, tip, intercooler, check all vacuum connections from intake manifold, did you torque down the intake manifold properly? i believe its from the center out and its not too much torque forget the exact numbers. this sounds like a leak somewhere to me

You know what...I forgot to plug the solenoid hose back in the turbo inlet nipple HAHA. Imma try that out lol. Of all things I cant believe I forgot that lol.

[Swinger13]

Update. Plugged the vacuum line back in and didn't change much. Didn't think it would do much. I havent had time yet to do any leak tests. I don't think a boost leak test would do anything at this point because of the lean afr. I did connect the vac line from the boost control solenoid to the turbo inlet and no significant change.

Fuel pressure is holding fine at idle so I'm not leaking fuel and if you have ever leaked fuel you'll smell it and your trims will fly up. Im routing this out to defective seals, exhaust leak, or another bad set of o2 sensors. Also, when my exhaust spit out chunks of crap, maybe some of that shit covered my o2 sensors and caused it to read wierd???

Let me know what you guys think!!! Thanks in advance.

[Bob-o]

Check your turbo inlet and see if it fell off

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by Bob-o Check your turbo inlet and see if it fell off

A lean condition can be caused by a leak pre-turbo - post MAF. If that is the case, I would think my recirc tube is leaking heavily. A rare chance but who knows.

[Swinger13]

This is the carnage of chunks that spat out of my exhaust when I first started it up. I'm thinking some of this got caught on my o2 sensors...

image-912818578.jpgimage-3603818869.jpg

[Swinger13]

So I did find 2 boost leaks. One is at my jumble of hoses at my catch can. And the other is leaking from my TIG on the intake manifold made by (you guessed it) SURE. @Haltech; I read your thread on SURE's fail and I think it cursed me.

image-1667460283.jpg

FML



I pulled the primary o2 sensor and it looked fine, a couple tiny chunks from when I did the first start up.



Can anyone recommend a RELIABLE thermal insulated intake manifold gasket???

[Swinger13]

this is an idle datalog to show you guys what's up...Idle lean March 2013.csv

[Tabasco69]

JBR for the thermal spacer Thermal Insulating Intake Gasket Kit [MS3-IN-IG] - $45.00 : James Barone Racing, Custom Fabrication, lean afr to me would mean air that is not being metered by the maf is entering the cylinder/s, if the maf doesn't see the air the ecu isn't to demand fuel which would cause lean afr, is this only during idle and cruise operating range?

During idle and lite cruise the engine should be producing vacuum, so the engine could be sucking in extra air downstream of the maf, during boost you would be running a little rich because some of the air is escaping through the same leak point and it would not make it into the cylinder- you would be surprised how many different location you could have a leak from, faulty pcv, occ, manifold flange, throttle body flange, silicone couplers, pin hole in fmic seam welds....a smoke/UVdye leak test takes about 10 minutes.

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by Tabasco69 JBR for the thermal spacer Thermal Insulating Intake Gasket Kit [MS3-IN-IG] - $45.00 : James Barone Racing, Custom Fabrication, lean afr to me would mean air that is not being metered by the maf is entering the cylinder/s, if the maf doesn't see the air the ecu isn't to demand fuel which would cause lean afr, is this only during idle and cruise operating range? During idle and lite cruise the engine should be producing vacuum, so the engine could be sucking in extra air downstream of the maf, during boost you would be running a little rich because some of the air is escaping through the same leak point and it would not make it into the cylinder- you would be surprised how many different location you could have a leak from, occ, manifold flange, throttle body flange, silicone couplers, pin hole in fmic seam welds....a smoke/UVdye leak test takes about 10 minutes.

This is only under idling conditions (that I know of). I'm a little weary of driving it while so lean.

I know lol I could feel the leak blowing on my hand. And made sure by spraying the leaking area .

The wonderful adventures of boost lol.

[Tabasco69]

another trick is to take propane (unlite lol) open the valve up and move the tip along mating surfaces while the engine is idling, if you comes across a leak the propane will be sucked into the intake and the idle will change. Just be careful

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by Tabasco69 another trick is to take propane (unlite lol) open the valve up and move the tip along mating surfaces while the engine is idling, if you comes across a leak the propane will be sucked into the intake and the idle will change. Just be careful

Scary trick lol

[dot584]

Why are you using propane, because it burns if it gets sucked in?

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

[chuckms6]

Brake clean works the same

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[Tabasco69]

Originally Posted by dot584 Why are you using propane, because it burns if it gets sucked in? Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

yeah, it is treated like fuel by the engine-hence if there is a leak, at idle the vacuum of the engine will pull the propane in through the leak and the engine's idle will change......the new greener eco brake cleaner doesn't seem to work very well..

[dot584]

So your using a propane torch and listening to the motor as you release gas into the engine bay? Sounds dangerous lol but I'm sure it works.

Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

[Swinger13]

Originally Posted by dot584 So your using a propane torch and listening to the motor as you release gas into the engine bay? Sounds dangerous lol but I'm sure it works. Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2

I don't think I'll be trying that. i only have one motor to work with here lol.


So I am taking apart everything again and rechecking everything. The IM bolts were tirqued too tight and some unevenly which is my reason to believe I had a leak. I'm also going to check the fuel rail once again and re install by putting on the injectors first, then the U-brackets, then the fuel rail. I didnt do that the first time.