Turbo Seized, time to change it up... twin scroll?

[mr.speedy3]

Recent progress http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru....php?p=2857172


The other day after driving home 25 miles from work, my GF noticed oil on the ground where I normally park, and sure enough, my car was leaking oil..

Fast forward 30 minutes, I parked it in the garage and discovered my turbo feed was leaking.. at the turbo. It was leaking a good amount too. So I parked it and just carpooled with the GF for the week while waiting for the new oil feed to come in from edge.

Pulled the alternator and removed the stock line. I assume the crush washers gave for some reason at the turbo, they're only 13k miles old, so maybe they did not get a proper seal? Not sure.

Quick back story, built the block last year and went big turbo (GTX3076r + IWG). I've been tuned at 28psi for a while now by freek.

Back to the story, I put the car back together today, and drove around the block; sweet no more leaks! So the car gets to temp and I go WOT, well, no boost happened (). When I hit the go pedal, the car's supposed to boost dammit.

Took it home, let it sit and pulled the intake,... Sure enough the compressor wheel is seized (sonofabitch). Only 13k miles on that turbo...

I plan to pull the turbo tomorrow, or at least start the process. The full-race manifold blows to work around.

I am tossing a few options around... I would be fine with staying around 500hp as I am right now. But would like a little better spool down low..

1. Rebuild the 3076, throw in a twin-scroll exhaust housing and get a custom twin-scroll manifold built by @Boost Junkyz since they're 1 mile or so away from where I work. I would also toss the Mazda flange and weld in a v-band flange on the DP.

2. Rebuild the 3076 and just slap it back in. If I go this route, I only have to pull the dp/turbo.. I could run a K04 in the meantime while the 3076 is being rebuilt (since the DP won't need to be modified as the end result)

3. Swap to a PTE6266

4. Taking opinions.

For those whole like whoosh noises, here is my dyno from mid-AZ-summer on a humid day. Since then, I've had WGDC upped and went from a D10 to a D14 for meth.

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

MazdaSpeed Forums Presents: YouTube

tl;dr; gtx3076r seized, so I'm looking for options for a new setup.

[hatchedspeed3]

IMO, if you want a little more spool down low, with 500hp numbers, go with a 5858. I think that turbo will make you very happy. If that's not an option, rebuild the 76, its a freight train. good luck with your build, hope my .02 helped.

[Agent_Orange]

So you never figured out exactly why it was pissing oil?

It'd be good to know so you don't brick another snail.

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Agent_Orange So you never figured out exactly why it was pissing oil? It'd be good to know so you don't brick another snail.

It was leaking from the feed at the turbo for sure. I'd suspect either crush washer or banjo bolt. Doubt it'd be the bolt but you never know i suppose. The new AN fittings did not leak at the turbo (or at all).

On a side note, the kozmicmotorsports feed line has a very small fitting at the turbo. I assume out of necessity of a restrictor for Garrett turbos?

tapatalkin

[England15j]

Buy @Putin 2.3T; PTE 5858 that's for sale

[Putin 2.3T]

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...earing-184980/

Thanks for the mention @England15j; I have a brand new 5858 for sale if you're interested @mr.speedy3;

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Putin 2.3T http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...earing-184980/ Thanks for the mention @England15j; I have a brand new 5858 for sale if you're interested @mr.speedy3;

You're a terrible person for showing me this... Lol. Let me see if it's in budget.

tapatalkin

[NCspecV81]

I'm partial. HTZ3586.

[Mauro_Penguin]

+1 for T4 twinscroll! Increase your engine VE and possibly gain a couple of hundred RPM of spool.

Shit if you get boost junkiez to make a t4 twin scroll manifold I would buy one also! Top mount, bottom mount, I don't give a shit where it's mounted so long as it's T4 and equal length.

On a serious note, you could also get the cpe mani with the tial vband and get a tial hotside for your 3076 if you rebuild it. They are made to flow very well, you get a choice of a couple of hotsides, and you get the ease of vband installation for the downpipe and manifold.

[Scare Dem]

Think it was oil starvation that seized the turbo?

I vote rebuild 3076.

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Scare Dem Think it was oil starvation that seized the turbo? I vote rebuild 3076.

Not sure what else it would have been. To ensure the new line was feeding the turbo (after it was seized) I removed the feed from the turbo and cranked the engine. In less than a second, basically, I had 1/4 cup of oil caught in a cup from the oil feed. So I know the turbo was being fed oil from the new line.

tapatalkin

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin +1 for T4 twinscroll! Increase your engine VE and possibly gain a couple of hundred RPM of spool. Shit if you get boost junkiez to make a t4 twin scroll manifold I would buy one also! Top mount, bottom mount, I don't give a shit where it's mounted so long as it's T4 and equal length. On a serious note, you could also get the cpe mani with the tial vband and get a tial hotside for your 3076 if you rebuild it. They are made to flow very well, you get a choice of a couple of hotsides, and you get the ease of vband installation for the downpipe and manifold.

I'll call em tomorrow lol

tapatalkin

Originally Posted by mr.speedy3 Not sure what else it would have been. To ensure the new line was feeding the turbo (after it was seized) I removed the feed from the turbo and cranked the engine. In less than a second, basically, I had 1/4 cup of oil caught in a cup from the oil feed. So I know the turbo was being fed oil from the new line. tapatalkin I'll call em tomorrow lol Thought the CPE Mani had issues fitting. lol tapatalkin

tapatalkin

[shaneski]

May be a long shot, but would ATP offer warranty since it is their kit including oil line that started leaking.
The leaky line is probably the culprit as the turbo would not be getting the oil pressure needed with it leaking like a fucker...but they will probably then try and blame the new Kozmic line you put on that wasn't made by them..even though that one had zero leaks etc.
Not glad this has happened to you but glad i read this. I did an oil change on mine today and noticed it had a drip of oil formed on the lowest part of the braided oil line (ATP gtx 2867 kit) that wasn't there the previous oil changes over the last 30k.

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by shaneski May be a long shot, but would ATP offer warranty since it is their kit including oil line that started leaking. The leaky line is probably the culprit as the turbo would not be getting the oil pressure needed with it leaking like a fucker...but they will probably then try and blame the new Kozmic line you put on that wasn't made by them..even though that one had zero leaks etc. Not glad this has happened to you but glad i read this. I did an oil change on mine today and noticed it had a drip of oil formed on the lowest part of the braided oil line (ATP gtx 2867 kit) that wasn't there the previous oil changes over the last 30k.

This is how I noticed it on mine. The oil drain line had a drip of oil on it. Low and behold, it came from the top of the turbo and just dripped down.

I can't find any verbiage on warranty from ATP. I plan to call today sometime


tapatalkin

[mr.speedy3]

Update:
ATP denied warranty (2 months out). Quoted $842 to basically remanufacture the turbo with new parts as part of garrett turbos exchange program.

Local shop can rebuild it for $500 (a few locals have used the shop).

Now to the debate..

If I can offload my full race mani... I would be able to get a custom twinscroll manifold built and ceramic coated by boostjunkyz. I could cut the flange off my ATP downpipe and weld on one for the twinscroll for the cost of the flange.

Wonder how a twin scroll 3076 would feel on the speed...


tapatalkin

[Mauro_Penguin]

Originally Posted by mr.speedy3 Update: ATP denied warranty (2 months out). Quoted $842 to basically remanufacture the turbo with new parts as part of garrett turbos exchange program. Local shop can rebuild it for $500 (a few locals have used the shop). Now to the debate.. If I can offload my full race mani... I would be able to get a custom twinscroll manifold built and ceramic coated by boostjunkyz. I could cut the flange off my ATP downpipe and weld on one for the twinscroll for the cost of the flange. Wonder how a twin scroll 3076 would feel on the speed... tapatalkin

That sucks about your warranty. Time to make lemonade from your lemons? I've always heard good things about FP with their HTA turbos, and you can still retain water cooling capabilities unlike the PTE's.

I believe there have been a couple of evo's that have done the gtx3076 with twinscroll manifolds. Some subies too I think. (I got bored a long time ago and searched twin scroll efficiency on the interwebz) Although its obviously not a true apples to apples comparison to our engine.

Either way, I'm so game for a twin scroll manifold for our cars! There need to be more unicornz!

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin That sucks about your warranty. Time to make lemonade from your lemons? I've always heard good things about FP with their HTA turbos, and you can still retain water cooling capabilities unlike the PTE's. I believe there have been a couple of evo's that have done the gtx3076 with twinscroll manifolds. Some subies too I think. (I got bored a long time ago and searched twin scroll efficiency on the interwebz) Although its obviously not a true apples to apples comparison to our engine. Either way, I'm so game for a twin scroll manifold for our cars! There need to be more unicornz!

I can call and see if they'd be willing to do a deal for two of them. I'll have to tow my car to them so they can use it to make sure fitment is spot on. They said they can most likely do stock location turbo.

[Mauro_Penguin]

Originally Posted by mr.speedy3 I can call and see if they'd be willing to do a deal for two of them. I'll have to tow my car to them so they can use it to make sure fitment is spot on. They said they can most likely do stock location turbo.

I would love you forever! But how long would your car be down for? Things like that are not necessarrily quick to fab and you also have a turbo to rebuild.

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin I would love you forever! But how long would your car be down for? Things like that are not necessarrily quick to fab and you also have a turbo to rebuild.

Car will be down a minimum of 2 weeks for the turbo rebuild. They said once they have my car (after next week), they can fab up a new mani in 2 more weeks, so a total of 3 combined weeks best case scenario. They don't need the turbo, and if they do I have a K04 I can use for stock placement mock up.

I got the DP off today, need to pull the turbo and mani tomorrow.. if I go through with it lmao

[jdmage_mx5]

I'd be curious to how the rebuild goes on the gyx3076r without going through ATP. My gtx3071r went out not too long ago and NO ONE could do anything with it. I ended up having to go with the exchange program for $700. I called tons of people all around the U.S. And got the same reason by all of them; due to being a dual ball bearing turbo from Garrett they were unable to obtain individual rebuild parts.

Forced Performance mentioned they could disassemble the CHRA and clean it up and reassemble but they recommended just going through the exchange program. I was pretty pissed when I gave my credit card # to ATP for the $70 charge LOL

I do have to say the turn around time was insanely fast. They basically received my CHRA and shipped out a new one the same day. PS it's cheaper if you sent them just the CHRA without the outer housings.

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by jdmage_mx5 I'd be curious to how the rebuild goes on the gyx3076r without going through ATP. My gtx3071r went out not too long ago and NO ONE could do anything with it. I ended up having to go with the exchange program for $700. I called tons of people all around the U.S. And got the same reason by all of them; due to being a dual ball bearing turbo from Garrett they were unable to obtain individual rebuild parts. Forced Performance mentioned they could disassemble the CHRA and clean it up and reassemble but they recommended just going through the exchange program. I was pretty pissed when I gave my credit card # to ATP for the $70 charge LOL I do have to say the turn around time was insanely fast. They basically received my CHRA and shipped out a new one the same day. PS it's cheaper if you sent them just the CHRA without the outer housings.

Interesting, they told me the same talk and said $842... Called AGP Turbo in Tempe AZ and they said they could rebuild it, including replacing the bearings.

[Nitr0EngiE]

Originally Posted by mr.speedy3 Interesting, they told me the same talk and said $842... Called AGP Turbo in Tempe AZ and they said they could rebuild it, including replacing the bearings.

as the dude above this post said there is noone that can rebuild this turbo, there are allot of really good shops here and they all said they cant do anything with it being ball bearing they are un rebuild able. And honestly for 500 vs the 700 i paid for a CHRA i would rather pay the 700 for a bran new one, I think my turbo died from oil contamination metal shavings in the oil, i have since been using an in line oil filter and it has def caught some shit i clean it on each oil change and it provides the oil orfice for restriction even though i drilled it out slightly as i felt it was too small.

another note its a complete utter waste of money to try and rebuild and then switch hot sides, its fucking expensive to buy chra and hot side, you should just outright buy a new turbo if you want to go twin scroll and take my word with a grain of salt but I have already been through this. my existing hot side inlet flange was warped and I ended up needing to have it machines flat and my mani machines flat to make it seal, if it was any worse buying a new turbo would have been much easier and better end solution.

but key point here is i would not trust a rebuild when you can get brand new CHRA for a little more.

EDIT: if you read my thrad about how my EWG died and the information I provide you will see there is absolutely no reason NOT to water cool the EQG especially where it is placed in our cars all the way in the back and in some cases like mine the EWG is under my manifold

As a matter of fact my EWG is exactly where he is holding his in the picture above which I would most DEF install the water lines. its just a few bucks in fitting and tubes, totally retarded not to do it with it being an option.

Said Thread: Water cooling Tial MVS 38mm

afaik I was the first person to use the water lines and post about it which is in result to my EWG failing and causing over boost

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Nitr0EngiE as the dude above this post said there is noone that can rebuild this turbo, there are allot of really good shops here and they all said they cant do anything with it being ball bearing they are un rebuild able. This is who I was referred to. I was told by locals that they have rebuilt many of their (still working) turbos. Now, what that entails I am not sure about, but feel free to call AGP turbo and discuss with them; I'm sure they'd love to talk to you. 480-983-6083 And honestly for 500 vs the 700 i paid for a CHRA i would rather pay the 700 for a bran new one, I think my turbo died from oil contamination metal shavings in the oil, i have since been using an in line oil filter and it has def caught some shit i clean it on each oil change and it provides the oil orfice for restriction even though i drilled it out slightly as i felt it was too small. I originally thought my turbo seized up, but this ended up not being the case. I had built up carbon on the inside that eventually blocked the CHRA from rotating freely. AGP simply disassembled my turbo, soaked it in their 'solution', balanced and reassembled it. This only cost me $125. The turbo itself is only ~13k miles old. another note its a complete utter waste of money to try and rebuild and then switch hot sides, its fucking expensive to buy chra and hot side, you should just outright buy a new turbo if you want to go twin scroll and take my word with a grain of salt but I have already been through this. my existing hot side inlet flange was warped and I ended up needing to have it machines flat and my mani machines flat to make it seal, if it was any worse buying a new turbo would have been much easier and better end solution. A new turbo with a twinscroll hotside is ~$1000-$2000 (assuming) depending on how I wanted to proceed. I was moments away from buying a 6266 before AGP called and told me my turbos actually ok. Since they told me it was ok, I got with boostjunkyz and went forward with the manifold for $750. Sold my full race manifold for $775, so I made $25 on the deal technically. Hotside was ~$200. So at this point I'm out the price of the housing and the balance and reseal of the turbo. The way I see it, this is a great option for myself since I wanted twinscroll. but key point here is i would not trust a rebuild when you can get brand new CHRA for a little more. Point taken, and I absolutely agree, I never thought about this route, and most likely will do this when the turbo actually dies. EDIT: if you read my thrad about how my EWG died and the information I provide you will see there is absolutely no reason NOT to water cool the EQG especially where it is placed in our cars all the way in the back and in some cases like mine the EWG is under my manifold As a matter of fact my EWG is exactly where he is holding his in the picture above which I would most DEF install the water lines. its just a few bucks in fitting and tubes, totally retarded not to do it with it being an option. Said Thread: Water cooling Tial MVS 38mm afaik I was the first person to use the water lines and post about it which is in result to my EWG failing and causing over boost Thanks for the thread and info, I've been running the idea of water cooling, just need to go pick up my car so I can get the lines routed.

See my responses in the quote, thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin A unicorn lives?!?!

Seems so!! I'll be going over there in about an hour to check it out in person and pick up my car. Should be welded up today then sent to be ceramic coated and back to me early next week.

Next steps is to remove the Mazda flange from my DP and weld in a vband. I also just received my 44mm flange for the custom dump tube we'll be making. Also finishing up the custom 4" intake.. after all of that is complete, I'll put her together and see how she runs. Hopefully all of that happens next weekend.

[jdmage_mx5]

I was under the assumption AGP did the same as ATP in regards to CHRA exchange program. Matter of fact I called Garrett and those two (atp and agp) were the two they recommended to perform the exchange. I went with ATP since that's where my 3071 originally came from.

Like I said besides the cost I could not have asked for a better customer service experience from anyone. I took the turbo out on a Sunday and was installing the new one 4 days later.

[09TrueRedGTX]

Doesn't forced performance also do an HTA upgrade on garrett turbos?
That may be worth considering.

[Mauro_Penguin]

Here is a thread where Tomas and Ziggo did a digital drawing and some measurements for a manifold possibility. I'm not sure if this may help them at all?

Click Me

@Tomas; would you still be interested in details about a twinscroll manifold or did you settle with your full race kit?

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin Here is a thread where Tomas and Ziggo did a digital drawing and some measurements for a manifold possibility. I'm not sure if this may help them at all? Click Me @Tomas; would you still be interested in details about a twinscroll manifold or did you settle with your full race kit?

If I go twinscroll.. I'll have a full race mani up for grabs.. lol

[shaneski]

You could sell your DP and mani, and go the Borg Warner s360 kit, they spool quick as and can make 700whp..
You can turn it down to a more moderate level to run 550whp ( they do around 500whp at 25psi from memory), Freek,Nishan and Purple Drank have tuned cars with them...

If you are happy with the way the 3076 went just get that rebuilt, you can't go too much more power than what you have without pinned cams and crank plus massive wheel spin even in 4th.

[mr.speedy3]

FUCK that manifold right in the pie hole.

Removing the turbo from the car with the Mani in is a huge pita. Also could not remove the turbo without removing the manifold or passenger axle (either or). It wouldn't fit through the intake path with the iwg.

Since I pulled the Mani, I'll clean it up and sell it.

So I have two options:
Cheapest: cut the flange off the full race Mani and go t4 or something of the sort, then add a vband flange to my current dp and swap exhaust housings
Or
Twinscroll unicorn.
Leaning towards the unicorn.

Anyone have opinions on twinscroll with a single ewg? My cars going in to be a test bed for fitment if I go with twinscroll
uploadfromtaptalk1425527149255.jpg

tapatalkin

[Mauro_Penguin]

Originally Posted by mr.speedy3 FUCK that manifold right in the pie hole. Removing the turbo from the car with the Mani in is a huge pita. Also could not remove the turbo without removing the manifold or passenger axle (either or). It wouldn't fit through the intake path with the iwg. Since I pulled the Mani, I'll clean it up and sell it. So I have two options: Cheapest: cut the flange off the full race Mani and go t4 or something of the sort, then add a vband flange to my current dp and swap exhaust housings Or Twinscroll unicorn. Leaning towards the unicorn. Anyone have opinions on twinscroll with a single ewg? My cars going in to be a test bed for fitment if I go with twinscroll Attachment 192756 tapatalkin

All I've been able to find the last few days is that so long as the gate pipe is divided all the way up to the flange, and its large enough (in our case nothing smaller than a 44mm), then there shouldnt be any problem.

I haven't had time to measure my engine bay or contact Boost Junkyz, I'll do that tomorrow when I'm off from work.

Also, you COULD cut and weld your full race mani, and weld up a T3 open scroll fange (T4 may make it difficult to find proper turbo hotsides). OR weld up a Vband flange for a tial hotside, but you would still need to figure out a solution for a wastegate. You COULD weld up a gate on the collector but for the work or money that would be involved you might as well get a new manifold.

I'm not trying to discourage you at all, on the contrary I admire your ambition to modify that mani. But to me it just seems like a lot of time, work, and potential for error at the cost of a very nice/expensive stock flange manifold.

[ASHMS3]

@PapaSmurf; used to be ts, but I believe he was twin gated. His old build thread is in the pu section somewhere.

Using bad grammar from my cell phone.

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by ASHMS3 @PapaSmurf; used to be ts, but I believe he was twin gated. His old build thread is in the pu section somewhere. Using bad grammar from my cell phone.

I was twin gated, single gate will save you money if the runners a welded right along with the gate bung.

The twinscroll top mount steed speed is a single gate manifold.

[Dspike53]

Just purchased a 2103 MS3 last week and I can't wait to see what eveyrone has to offer--Hello to all!

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Dspike53 Just purchased a 2103 MS3

Is it AWD, turbo+NOS + 4 electric motors one in each corner + a laser jet engine in the back? Time for warp 1 to warp 2 both in sea water and atmosphere please?

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin All I've been able to find the last few days is that so long as the gate pipe is divided all the way up to the flange, and its large enough (in our case nothing smaller than a 44mm), then there shouldnt be any problem. I haven't had time to measure my engine bay or contact Boost Junkyz, I'll do that tomorrow when I'm off from work. Also, you COULD cut and weld your full race mani, and weld up a T3 open scroll fange (T4 may make it difficult to find proper turbo hotsides). OR weld up a Vband flange for a tial hotside, but you would still need to figure out a solution for a wastegate. You COULD weld up a gate on the collector but for the work or money that would be involved you might as well get a new manifold. I'm not trying to discourage you at all, on the contrary I admire your ambition to modify that mani. But to me it just seems like a lot of time, work, and potential for error at the cost of a very nice/expensive stock flange manifold.

Why would I need to change the gate? They have (not so pretty) IWG housing I could use, such as
Garrett GT30 T3 Internal Gate Turbine Housing - Turbine Housings, Garrett / Tial, GT30R - MTQ Sonic - Sonic Performance

I can do the flange on the mani and the flange on the dp at the cost of the new flanges (free labor). I would only be out money for the housing. So, unless I am missing something, this would definitly be the cheapest route.

BUT
fuck that, why not twinscroll... waiting for boostjunkyz to get back to me. Dropped my turbo off today at AGP, they said they'll be done by Monday most likely.

Originally Posted by Dspike53 Just purchased a 2103 MS3 last week and I can't wait to see what eveyrone has to offer--Hello to all!

Welcome to MSF, fucker. Now gtfo and make an intro thread

[Mauro_Penguin]

Originally Posted by mr.speedy3 Why would I need to change the gate? They have (not so pretty) IWG housing I could use, such as Garrett GT30 T3 Internal Gate Turbine Housing - Turbine Housings, Garrett / Tial, GT30R - MTQ Sonic - Sonic Performance I can do the flange on the mani and the flange on the dp at the cost of the new flanges (free labor). I would only be out money for the housing. So, unless I am missing something, this would definitly be the cheapest route. BUT fuck that, why not twinscroll... waiting for boostjunkyz to get back to me. Dropped my turbo off today at AGP, they said they'll be done by Monday most likely. Welcome to MSF, fucker. Now gtfo and make an intro thread

Good point, I had all but forgotten about those IWG hotsides. It sounds like it would be pretty simple to do then.

[mr.speedy3]

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin Good point, I had all but forgotten about those IWG hotsides. It sounds like it would be pretty simple to do then.

The damn unicorn already fucking exists!!!

uploadfromtaptalk1425654439165.jpg

tapatalkin

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Send it to Forced Performance, for 700 doll hairs get yourself an HTA3076.

[mr.speedy3]

post whoring, someone go buy my fullrace mani so my twinscroll unicorn can come to life:
http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-intake-185275

[mr.speedy3]

Damn Australians lol.

uploadfromtaptalk1425654766700.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1425654781741.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1425654799044.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1425654813190.jpg

tapatalkin

[Mauro_Penguin]

No it doesnt! It doesn't count if it's not in the engine bay and running! Your still first in line! LOL

I'd love to see that damn thing actually IN the engine bay, and not just on a stand.

Sp63 uses a unicorn manifold as their avatar, but apparently no one else has seen this product of horse and narwhal fucking in real life.