Oil Catch Can Fix*

[El_Diablo]

First off, let me say this. To anyone I have recommended the Corksport Oil Catch Can to, I apologize. The routing on this kit is the best method, I still firmly believe that. However, the can is flawed and the hoses are let’s face it, complete junk.

A little background on myself- I'm a former tech & have been wrenching on everything I could get my hands on since the age of 6. I have built a couple turbo cars and I'm in the process of building a twin turbo Mustang that up until this rebuild was running a supercharger. I am no stranger to boosted cars and crankcase ventilation setups.

So here’s my story-


I had been researching the MZR platforms for over a year when I finally purchased my 2011 MS3 used back in October so I was familiar with its inherent problems. Needless to say my first mod was an OCC and I thought I was making the right move when I purchased and installed the CS OCC with 13,500 miles on the odometer.

I installed the CS OCC with the help of a lift here at work (I now sell cars instead of wrench). Everything went smoothly except for the hose that was provided wanted to do nothing but continuously split. Of course after a couple of tries and some careful trimming it all went together after following Corksports directions to a T. The "outlet" or "vent" if you will goes into the intake pre-turbo, just as the instructions say.

All was well, everything was running and working fine after the 500 mile check & drain. Approximately a thousand miles later and plenty of crap was being caught just as it should have been. Man was I happy with my purchase and I let anyone know who would listen. I drain it every thousand miles.

Well, I just hit 17k miles, It was a rare warm mid-winter day here in Ohio so I decided to wash my car. I figured I would just go ahead and drain the OCC while I was at it and to my surprise when I popped the hood, the freakin top was missing to my OCC!!!!

Needless to say, I was pissed... how did this happen? WTF? I installed it the "correct" way!! This should have never happened!!!

I called up Corksport and talked to Derrick, he told me to shoot a couple pictures and e-mail them directly to him. I also sent him a couple pictures of there the vent line goes into the intake, pre-turbo of course.

Catch Can Failure- J*** ******** J*** ******** <j************@gmail.com> Jan 8 (6 days ago) to derrick Here are the pictures of the catch can failure you requested. As you can see the top is completely missing and it is plumbed into the intake using the hose that you supplied. I have also attached links to a couple other failures. Oil Catch Can Recommendations http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...-notes-112463/ I hope to hear from you soon in regards to this issue as this is my daily driver. Thank you, J*** ******** 330-***-****

Holy crap was his response fast (called me right back)! Nice guy too. He then said he would send the pictures to Kelly who would help me out. Needless to say I was expecting more of the same that I had seen with Derrick (I'm in a service industry as are they; I try to never let more than 2 hrs. go by before contacting a customer). However, even though it was still only 2PM their time she waited until later in the following day to respond with this.-

J***, Hello, and thank you your email and sorry to see your challenge. CorkSport will exchange your Oil Catch Can as a goodwill gesture, since we are unable to determine if the failure mode is user installation error or manufacture defect. Beware no further warranty consideration will be give once this exchange is complete and it is the end-user responsibility to ensure proper installation of the oil catch can has taken place. We will included installation instruction to help ensure proper installation, if you have any questions or concerns while installing the oil catch can do not hesitate to contact us for support. The replacement can will be shipping towards the end of January once inventory is available. Please hold onto your current kit I will need your original can back and you will need to reuse the hoses that came with your original kit. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns regarding this process. Thank you for all your time and patience. Have a great day. Kelly Sales Manager CorkSport Mazda Performance kelly@corksport.com 360.260.2675

So obviously I was a little irritated that I had pretty much been told "We don't care what proof you give, it’s your fault".

I replied Immediately

Kelly, This issue seems to be ongoing with these catch cans. In my pictures you can clearly see where the discharge hose goes into the pre-turbo inlet pipe just as stated in the instructions. If you need further pictures I can and will provide them because I am in no way in the wrong on this situation. I'm a former technician and know what I'm doing when it comes to cars and the plumbing is spot on. However, the can is clearly a poor design. As such I would prefer a full refund and I'm very willing to send the entire kit back. I no longer wish to run your OCC with the quality issues that exist. If there were a redesigned can I might consider it but why continue to use a product that has been a proven failure. This is my daily driver and I drive at least 50-60 miles a day and very soon that number will easily triple, on top of that I use this car to transport my newborn daughter. I simply cannot accept a failure prone part due to my nature of use for the vehicle, especially without continued warranty support and replacement delay time of nearly a month. Thank you, J*** ******** 330-***-****

J***, I can completely appreciate what you're says and I understand the need for reliability from your daily driver. We have made a revision to the oil catch can that will be part of the next production run, which I think you will like. The lid will now be welded on. The change directly address the concerns expressed by the Mazda community at large. I'm sorry to say the returning is not an option. I would like to outfit you with the new can once available, I think you will be happy with the revisions. Thank you for your time and patience. Kelly Sales Manager CorkSport Mazda Performance kelly@corksport.com 360.260.2675

Overall, is the solution a good one? Not really.

I get a replacement can, that’s awesome, but why would I want a replacement that has no real promise of being any better? Why would anyone want to wait a month to have an issue resolved? My warranty is now void, why should it be when I can provide proof that the install was correct?

Below I have attached the pictures that I sent in the first e-mail to Derrick that were then sent to Kelly.


Feel free to draw your own conclusions but I will no longer recommend the CS OCC and wouldn't feel that great recommending their other products now that I know how they handle a warranty issue. They have some great things to offer, I just hope they step up a little on customer service when a customer has a total failure of one of their products.


Sorry for the long rant.

[captain slow]

welding the top with fix the issue of the top popping off but not of it seeing boost. From my understanding the can shouldn't be seeing boost pressure.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by captain slow welding the top with fix the issue of the top popping off but not of it seeing boost. From my understanding the can shouldn't be seeing boost pressure.

In fact, welding the OCC will move the fail to somewhere else in line, or make a bigger boom.

[bryansawiseone]

There is a guy that lives up the road with a ms6 that had the exact same problem with the cs occ... I have the same one and haven't had any troubles yet with 3 thousand miles or so on it but will be pissed if my top blows like that...

[Voltwings]

This has been addressed before and im sorry to say it, the only way that can will ever see pressure is if it was routed wrong. I installed this can on an MS3 running a precission 6262 @ 24 psi and his never blew. Tell us exactly how you had the hoses routed? Not trying to say "this is your fault" but i mean... if the shoe fits :/

i am editing my post here to announce that my lid has blown off ... somehow :/ maybe my CV failed, who knows, but alas... it did happen.

[Tokay444]

How are you boosting the can?
Is there no check valve?

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 How are you boosting the can? Is there no check valve?

no, corksport routes the valve cover + PCV together with a T to the inlet of the can (they provide a cap for the intake manifold) and have the outlet going to your TIP. Realistically the can under this set up should never see boost... or really even positive pressure if the TIP is constantly pulling a vacuum on it.

[MazdaBoy2.3]

Damn...I was going to buy one of these this week...

[Tokay444]

Well then he should do a compression and leak down test to see how he's boosting the crank case enough to blow up a catch can.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo First off, let me say this. To anyone I have recommended the Corksport Oil Catch Can to, I apologize. The routing on this kit is the best method, I still firmly believe that. However, the can is flawed and the hoses are let’s face it, complete junk. ..... Well, I just hit 17k miles, It was a rare warm mid-winter day here in Ohio so I decided to wash my car. I figured I would just go ahead and drain the OCC while I was at it and to my surprise when I popped the hood, the freakin top was missing to my OCC!!!! Needless to say, I was pissed... how did this happen? WTF? I installed it the "correct" way!! This should have never happened!!! ..... Sorry for the long rant.

Reading this part has me curious, you didn't notice any drivability issues, no noise, no oil vapor and no boost loss ?

I can only think of two scenarios where the top would pop off of a OCC.

1. pressure is present in a can with a design and install path that by nature prevents it
2. something lit the contents of the can.. (they kind of do look like firecrackers and the contents are flammable, but I jest).

having had experience with CRAPPY pcv I can tell you that the noise and mess from one is pretty clear, to a former tech it should have screamed.


that said, every CS OCC fail picture I have seen has had residual glue all over the place, from what I have read about CS, they are fairly good lot of precision oriented folk... is it possible that this 'glue' is being dissolved and/or soften enough to be pushed into the intake side of the can? essentially plugging and and only allowing for one other way out?

for those that have had them fail, was the glue soft? was any to be found in the intake side of the can?

[El_Diablo]

Exactly, my OCC should never have seen boost. You can see in the pictures where it is routed into the intake pre-turbo. I said the exact same things to others but turns out I was wrong. Its not the routing because mine is like you said, from the vc and pcv into the supplied plastic t and then into the intake, again, as pictured. My only thought is that MAYBE, the bypass valve is being released so quicky that the intake is seeing boost pressure.... this still makes no sense but it is routed the correct way. I have not taken it apart yet because I wanted to wait and see if corksport asked for picture proof.

Idk, if Ihave time tomorrow ill take it somewhat apart and take some pictures.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo Exactly, my OCC should never have seen boost. You can see in the pictures where it is routed into the intake pre-turbo. I said the exact same things to others but turns out I was wrong. Its not the routing because mine is like you said, from the vc and pcv into the supplied plastic t and then into the intake, again, as pictured. My only thought is that MAYBE, the bypass valve is being released so quicky that the intake is seeing boost pressure.... this still makes no sense but it is routed the correct way. I have not taken it apart yet because I wanted to wait and see if corksport asked for picture proof. Idk, if Ihave time tomorrow ill take it somewhat apart and take some pictures.

I still think something is wrong man, and Yatta raises a good point. you said you noticed the can lid was missing when you went to do an oil change... routed properly... or hell even improperly would lead to a MASSIVE vacuum leak one way or the other if the top of the can is missing.

If there is not a vacuum leak and driveability continues as normal then yes, it would seem like the outlet of the can was blocked somehow which allowed pressure from the VC + PCV to pressurize the can. i imagine it would not take a lot of pressure to pop the glued top off since it is not put on there with the intent of holding pressure. My only concern with this theory is that the can has a 5/8" outlet... thats a fairly good sized hole for some "residual glue" to collect in and gunk up.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I still think something is wrong man, and Yatta raises a good point. you said you noticed the can lid was missing when you went to do an oil change... routed properly... or hell even improperly would lead to a MASSIVE vacuum leak one way or the other if the top of the can is missing. If there is not a vacuum leak and driveability continues as normal then yes, it would seem like the outlet of the can was blocked somehow which allowed pressure from the VC + PCV to pressurize the can. i imagine it would not take a lot of pressure to pop the glued top off since it is not put on there with the intent of holding pressure. My only concern with this theory is that the can has a 5/8" outlet... thats a fairly good sized hole for some "residual glue" to collect in and gunk up.

I suspect a suck test on the PCV outlet should be in the directions, but who wants to do that? (you know, put the hose in your mouth, suck works, blow fails? if the PCV has failed and a hole on the can is obstructed (that is a crapload of residual glue, really) it could act as a flap/ diaphragm valve and plug it while under boost (and blowby) thats a lot of ifs/maybes but would explain why some have seen this and others have not, I think this revised install method is really good and like that the can has a cap, would prefer a screw top or a latch but having it open to inspect is a good thing in my book.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by Voltwings I still think something is wrong man, and Yatta raises a good point. you said you noticed the can lid was missing when you went to do an oil change... routed properly... or hell even improperly would lead to a MASSIVE vacuum leak one way or the other if the top of the can is missing. If there is not a vacuum leak and driveability continues as normal then yes, it would seem like the outlet of the can was blocked somehow which allowed pressure from the VC + PCV to pressurize the can. i imagine it would not take a lot of pressure to pop the glued top off since it is not put on there with the intent of holding pressure. My only concern with this theory is that the can has a 5/8" outlet... thats a fairly good sized hole for some "residual glue" to collect in and gunk up.

Actually, its not a vacuum leak, persay, think of it more as a post MAF air leak. A vacuum leak is post throttle blade, this was pre throttle (with CS's routing you plug the manifold vacuum source). And yes, I had noticed a very slight smell increase but I attributed that to the catless downpipe I had just installed. My bad.....

[chuckms6]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo Exactly, my OCC should never have seen boost. You can see in the pictures where it is routed into the intake pre-turbo. I said the exact same things to others but turns out I was wrong. Its not the routing because mine is like you said, from the vc and pcv into the supplied plastic t and then into the intake, again, as pictured. My only thought is that MAYBE, the bypass valve is being released so quicky that the intake is seeing boost pressure.... this still makes no sense but it is routed the correct way. I have not taken it apart yet because I wanted to wait and see if corksport asked for picture proof. Idk, if Ihave time tomorrow ill take it somewhat apart and take some pictures.

Please post a diagram of how you have it routed in your car, and pictures of connections.

EDIT: are you sure you didnt connect the intake manifold instead of the PCV??

Tapatalking

[El_Diablo]

I'm at work currently, If I have a chance to dissassemble tomorrow I will.

In the mean while, heres my craptastic diagram in MS Paint.

Basically- PVC+Valve Cover Vent-->Supplied Plastic T-->Corksport OCC-->CAI (Pre-turbo inlet pipe)

[chuckms6]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo I'm at work currently, If I have a chance to dissassemble tomorrow I will. In the mean while, heres my craptastic diagram in MS Paint. Basically- PVC+Valve Cover Vent-->Supplied Plastic T-->Corksport OCC-->CAI (Pre-turbo inlet pipe)

ok, my next question is, are your sure you connected the hose to the pcv and not the intake manifold? thats the only thing i can think of that could have gone wrong.

[El_Diablo]

As to the blowby theories, keep in mind my car has 17k miles.

Originally Posted by chuckms6 ok, my next question is, are your sure you connected the hose to the pcv and not the intake manifold? thats the only thing i can think of that could have gone wrong.

Absolutely positive. That thing was a bitch to put on and I thought I was gonna break the PCV, lol. The manifold plug on the other hand went on with little trouble.

Like I have said, it really doesn't make logical sense unless there was a backfire (which, how the hell would I not notice) or if the bypass valve momentarily pressurizes or even sends a pressure wave to the intake. Hell, I'm running 19psi. That would probable be more than enough to pop that sucker with a good pressure wave.

[Voltwings]

Shit, im drawing a blank then. I guess just take it apart and take a look at it when you get home

[El_Diablo]

Yup, I have no fawkin idea volt. I appreciate all the questions because trust me, I did the same to the other guys with this issues and I know you guys are just lookin out.

[chuckms6]

hmm... lotsa glue on those ports in the can...

[El_Diablo]

Yup and holy fawking shit batman.... did you have to quote the whole big ass picture? haha

[Tokay444]

Do a compression and leak down test.
It seems you're boosting your crank case and subsequently your catch can.
I feel like I've said that already.

[El_Diablo]

And I will say my statement again, the car just turned 17k Miles. It runs like a champ, no smoking on a catless DP or any other signs. Either way, even if I was sending a MASSIVE amount of pressure towards the can, it should essentially be an open orifice for the blow by to go through. However, take this and reverse it, you'll have the PCV close and make pressure due to the PCV being a one way valve.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo And I will say my statement again, the car just turned 17k Miles. It runs like a champ, no smoking on a catless DP or any other signs. Either way, even if I was sending a MASSIVE amount of pressure towards the can, it should essentially be an open orifice for the blow by to go through. However, take this and reverse it, you'll have the PCV close and make pressure due to the PCV being a one way valve.

mileage has nothing to do with compression, are your rings seated? My last car ( a VW VR6 GTI ran wet until around 50k miles when I suspect the rings finally set, it happens)

again, you were a tech, you would know best.

Originally Posted by finalspeed My cc did the same thing. My experience is top blew off while pulling into my driveway. You can see the glue substance inside or as Dano calls it whale jizz. While I was pulling on the hoses the cc separated from the mount from the inside and the tee broke off on each segment. I could also smell a faint oil and gas smell while driving. Also intake manifold plug had started to have tiny cracks. Check yours, guys. Let's just say I'm running a JBR stage 2 now.

clearer pictures would be nice!! but this is what I would expect from what I have seen, that is an awful lot of glue and the pieces I see would be large enough to block one of the inlet/outlet connections, I still think this would require a fail on the PCV and/or large amounts of blowby.

if you can get a clear picture of the bottom, (near the inlet/outlet) that would be great.

Thanks!

[finalspeed]

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[Yatta]

Would sure love to see how much glue was on the other side of the can (the lid) I don't buy the bypass closing causing a pressure wave (no offense, just can't see it the whole point of the bypass is to avoid this and I think if such pressure were in place the original PCV system would be prone to blowing up as well it breaks way to easy..), the only way I could is if you were running a stock air box (that thing might as well be a plug). Corksport is watching this thread, what kind of glue is this? will oil or gas swell or act as a solvent on it? I don't know anything about chemical interactions of OCC sludge but a plug is the only thing I can imagine that would produce enough pressure to make a lid vanish. (but I am somewhat crazy). I am actually interested in buying one of these cans (still) as the routing and post throttle block is a really good thing, could do this with another can but it (to me) implies someone actually looked at our cars and came up with a better way.

a back fire would do this (as you said) but I don't see how you would get one, or how you wouldn't notice a big boom....

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by Yatta Would sure love to see how much glue was on the other side of the can (the lid) I don't buy the bypass closing causing a pressure wave (no offense, just can't see it the whole point of the bypass is to avoid this and I think if such pressure were in place the original PCV system would be prone to blowing up as well it breaks way to easy..), the only way I could is if you were running a stock air box (that thing might as well be a plug). Corksport is watching this thread, what kind of glue is this? will oil or gas swell or act as a solvent on it? I don't know anything about chemical interactions of OCC sludge but a plug is the only thing I can imagine that would produce enough pressure to make a lid vanish. (but I am somewhat crazy). I am actually interested in buying one of these cans (still) as the routing and post throttle block is a really good thing, could do this with another can but it (to me) implies someone actually looked at our cars and came up with a better way. a back fire would do this (as you said) but I don't see how you would get one, or how you wouldn't notice a big boom....

If I can find the lid I'll post it. As far as the bypass valve. I'm actually talking about when the throttle closes and the bypass dumps all of the boost into the intake. The original pcv was not routed this was, just the valve cover vent. Basically, with the stock system, if the bypass pushed boost it was counted acted as the pcv would pull vacuum at the manifold. With this routing they would both see any potential pressure in the intake.

[Dano]

@finalspeed;


Tappin

[finalspeed]

Originally Posted by Dano @finalspeed; Tappin

My cc did the same thing. My experience is top blew off while pulling into my driveway. You can see the glue substance inside or as Dano calls it whale jizz. While I was pulling on the hoses the cc separated from the mount from the inside and the tee broke off on each segment. I could also smell a faint oil and gas smell while driving. Also intake manifold plug had started to have tiny cracks. Check yours, guys. Let's just say I'm running a JBR stage 2 now.
100_1096.JPG100_1099.JPG100_1100.JPG
100_1101.JPG

[El_Diablo]

I agree, you can have compression issues with a brand new engine. But again, no oil is being burned nor any other evidence of issues. Will I do a compression test? Yes, but it may not be tomorrow and I highly doubt that's my issue as I should have other issues if it were blow by.... at the very least I should have oil that smells strongly of fuel.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo I agree, you can have compression issues with a brand new engine. But again, no oil is being burned nor any other evidence of issues. Will I do a compression test? Yes, but it may not be tomorrow and I highly doubt that's my issue as I should have other issues if it were blow by.... at the very least I should have oil that smells strongly of fuel.

Oil that smells like fuel, I thought that was a stock feature of DISI motors Mazda likes us rich as pigs... my point really is that something in all of these failures is common and it might not be installation error, it might be a combination of conditions.. I think the CS design is good and shouldn't require media/substrate, I also think that something is causing a lot of air flow through the can and that design (cyclonic) might be leading to some of the whale jizz (yikes) to plug a hole, which leads to POP.... a lot of ifs... knowing how much (if any) blowby is present might help. Excessive pressure, excessive glue, -> pop.... looking at the pictures above we see potential cracking of the tee and the hose? that is a LOT of pressure, certainly more than CS (or any) should have to plan for, I still think a blockage is causing this.

again opinions and conjecture...

[beachshoer]

I have to say again, I have had no issues with mine after months of driving 100 miles a day and racing. Even ordered another one for our second MS3. Hopefully going to a welded top will eliminate all these issues. Corksport is a great company and has always taken care of their customers. Derrick has emailed me every week with an update on our OCC order just to assure me it still coming.

[Tokay444]

You're not going to see BOOST in the intake.
Even when the bpv is recirculating.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 You're not going to see BOOST in the intake. Even when the bpv is recirculating.

Have you tested to be sure? I'm not talking full on boost, rather a short burst of a pressure wave.

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Do a compression and leak down test. It seems you're boosting your crank case and subsequently your catch can. I feel like I've said that already.

A question for you.... if I'm boosting the crankcase, shouldn't the air just flow right out of the occ into the TIP therefore not creating a single issue at all..... unless there was blockage, your blow by theory holds no water at all. Either way, not user error or a problem on my end.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by El_Diablo Have you tested to be sure? I'm not talking full on boost, rather a short burst of a pressure wave. A question for you.... if I'm boosting the crankcase, shouldn't the air just flow right out of the occ into the TIP therefore not creating a single issue at all..... unless there was blockage, your blow by theory holds no water at all. Either way, not user error or a problem on my end.

Well, you have a big open end on one side of the intake, and at the other side the turbo/engine is continuously drawing in air. You will not boost the intake. If you capped off the filter, and and completely stalled the turbo, you still likely wouldn't see boost in the intake.
As for question 2, if blowing the cap off the can has less resistance than traveling to the tip, that's what will happen.
Lets not forget, if you're boosting the crank case, you have two boost sources into the can. The PCV and the valve cover.
Your question is a little silly. If your theory of passing boost through the can into the tip with no issue held any water, people wouldn't blow couplers off intercoolers or worse, holes in motors, because the boost would just travel through the engine with no problem.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by Tokay444 Well, you have a big open end on one side of the intake, and at the other side the turbo/engine is continuously drawing in air. You will not boost the intake. If you capped off the filter, and and completely stalled the turbo, you still likely wouldn't see boost in the intake. As for question 2, if blowing the cap off the can has less resistance than traveling to the tip, that's what will happen. Lets not forget, if you're boosting the crank case, you have two boost sources into the can. The PCV and the valve cover. Your question is a little silly. If your theory of passing boost through the can into the tip with no issue held any water, people wouldn't blow couplers off intercoolers or worse, holes in motors, because the boost would just travel through the engine with no problem.

Again, I agree, your not going to "boost" the intake, but you might see a short pressure spike. Tell me that the air released from the turbo at 19+ psi while trying to find the shortest route could not momentarily cause a pressure wave as the bypass valve releases compressed air into a regular atmospheric area. Proove it to me that this will never happen. Again, I'm not talking about boosting the fucking intake. Just a pressure wave. Think about it as a semi displacing air as it passes by you on a bicycle. Air will displace air as believe it or not, air does have a specific weight. Again, one more time, pressure wave, not boost, there is a difference. What happens when. Bomb explodes? Its the pressure wave moving the air that causes the largest damage in most cases.

The problem your not seeing is the engine is a sealed system when operating properly while the crankcase is a VENTED system! The only way your theory works is if the TIP inlet is blocked. Otherwise the TIP is pulling vacuum when your on the throttle and thus pulling a vacuum on the can.... so basically I would have to be pushing a massive freaking amount of air for your blow by theory to work. Its just not going to happen unless there is a line plugged.

[crazyp]

hmm, shouldnt the boost in the can if there is any travel to the tip much like a BPV? weird that it didn't.

[Tokay444]

Seems like glue might be a bad idea.
Did corksport test the glue against petroleum distillates to see it's reaction?

[xI Leveler Ix]

Seems to me Corksport is doing the right thing in sending you another once they get them in stock tho.
My guess is that Glue is getting hotter than they had expected, and its melting into the lines and blocking it up. Probably Getting hot (Leaking into line), cooling (hardening up), then blocking it up every hot an cold cycle.