Product Release!! CorkSport Adjustable Shocks and Struts for Mazdapeed 3 and Mazda 3

[MS3MYK]

Placed my order for these last night, Ill give these a try with my Eibach Sportline springs.

[CorkSport]

Originally Posted by MS3MYK Placed my order for these last night, Ill give these a try with my Eibach Sportline springs.

Please make sure you post up a review.

Thanks
Derrick

[MS3MYK]

Originally Posted by CorkSport Please make sure you post up a review. Thanks Derrick

Will do.

Note 3 on Tapacawk

[speed3 britz]

Been needing some new Shocks/Struts, giving these a gamble. Ordered and will be testing with H&R Sport Springs... Im trusting you guys, dont let me down @CorkSport;

[SpencerC]

Originally Posted by speed3 britz Been needing some new Shocks/Struts, giving these a gamble. Ordered and will be testing with H&R Sport Springs... Im trusting you guys, dont let me down @CorkSport;

Thanks for trusting us. We won't let you down! Let Derrick or me know if you need any help or have any issues.

[jrotaryb]

I'm glad people are trying these out...the current offerings for replacement struts either aren't well suited to lowering springs or alter the ride height unfavorably. I was thinking about KW V1's when my stock units inevitably weaken (25k on H&R's) but perhaps these are the answer...

[Josegarcia020]

Are you guys going to offer a package deal shocks and struts + springs??

[CorkSport]

Originally Posted by Josegarcia020 Are you guys going to offer a package deal shocks and struts + springs??

Give us a call, we can do something for you.

-Derrick

[jeffdevo]

i love the idea of a combo package deal!

[zenit]

Originally Posted by CorkSport Technically I am never off the clock, lol. When I have the information back I will get it to you. -Derrick

It looks like I owe you an apology Derrick!

After speaking with Juan and getting an email with screenshots of the damping data from bilstien, I was finally able to connect the dots.

The Koni and Bilstien techs would sometimes refer to force measurements as newtons, newton by meters or foot lbs. I assumed that these we're all standard units of work (*foot* lbs, newton *meters*). Apparently when the tech had been refering to newton "meters", they were refering to the X axis meters that they we're already giving me. Turns out that these are actually explicitly "force" units. So it looks like you actually gave me the data that I needed in the first place.

This does mean that I need to triple check all my past posts and data. I'll issue corrections in the appropriate threads. I'm hoping that because this is a conversion error across data, that everything proportions should remain the same.

So +1 for Derrick for actually giving me what I asked for in direct-from-the-source email format(even if I didn't know it), which is more than Bilstien and Koni offered me.

I'll have corrected data to you soon Derrick.

[Lex]

This is a good question that I am not sure has been answered. Most aftermarket shocks "raise" the car when using the same springs versus OEM shocks due to higher static pressure and/or shaft length. Is this also the case with the CS shocks?

[jrotaryb]

Lookin forward to some perdy graphs once Derrick has his data...

[CorkSport]

Originally Posted by Lex This is a good question that I am not sure has been answered. Most aftermarket shocks "raise" the car when using the same springs versus OEM shocks due to higher static pressure and/or shaft length. Is this also the case with the CS shocks?

I wish I had an answer on this one. We have not installed them on a back to back on stock springs. On our lowering springs we did not see a difference.

One of the reasons for this is we used the OEM Mazdaspeed 3 shocks as the basis of our setup. For the Konis and Bilstiens it looks like they started with a body they had on the shelf and made changes to get it to work on the chassis.

-Derrick

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by CorkSport I wish I had an answer on this one. We have not installed them on a back to back on stock springs. On our lowering springs we did not see a difference. One of the reasons for this is we used the OEM Mazdaspeed 3 shocks as the basis of our setup. For the Konis and Bilstiens it looks like they started with a body they had on the shelf and made changes to get it to work on the chassis. -Derrick

Wouldn't it be easy to determine by measuring the full extended length of your shock against the full extended length of the stock shock?

[CorkSport]

Originally Posted by hnda etr Wouldn't it be easy to determine by measuring the full extended length of your shock against the full extended length of the stock shock?

Yes it would but is is freezing in the warehouse and I am a wussie typing in my nice warm office.

-Derrick

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by CorkSport Yes it would but is is freezing in the warehouse and I am a wussie typing in my nice warm office. -Derrick

hahaha... make Kim do it.. and then take pics of how nipply it is lol

[jrotaryb]

Originally Posted by hnda etr hahaha... make Kim do it.. and then take pics of how nipply it is lol

Ahhhh the inevitable transition from "show us technical data" to "nipply pic" requests...that train is never late

[CorkSport]

I'm not sure if my nipples will give you what you want...

[Sinister_Speed3]

I am interested in seeing the data. I was planning on Bilstein's but these may be an equal option. I gotta get my order in soon, planning on doing all my suspension work during our christmas work shut down.

[zenit]

Originally Posted by Sinister_Speed3 I am interested in seeing the data. I was planning on Bilstein's but these may be an equal option. I gotta get my order in soon, planning on doing all my suspension work during our christmas work shut down.

Gotcha. Been swamped at work. Should be out tomorrow.

[nybe0010]

Originally Posted by jeffdevo i love the idea of a combo package deal!

^^this @CorkSport;
My rear suspension is toast @60k. I was looking into koni/swift combo but I may need to reconsider. I just might need a RSB and skid plate too

[MS3MYK]

Mine should be in by this weekend.

Note 3 on Tapacawk

[zenit]

Raw Data
The long awaited data is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Xc&usp=sharing

^ I have my raw data and conversions/calculations/charts in this spreadsheet. I want to encourage folks to take a look and make sure that things check out. I'd be glad to answer PM's. A second pair of eyes can help catch dumb mistakes. For instance:

EDIT: The horizontal axes should read "Force (lbf)" not newtons. I will correct this.

What data do we have?
Derrick has given me data relating to the fully closed position for the rebound forces and velocities for the adjustable struts/shocks.
Hopefully this dataset will be the most informative, as the adjuster controls both rebound AND compression dampening and most likely cannot be trusted for highly accurate and precise settings between the full firm and full soft. I feel the same way about the Bilstein PSS9's (not pictured here). Also, Corksport has recommended that the higher settings be used for track/autox.

We do not have compression data for the CS adjustables.

What are the comparisons?
Since Corksport already has a set of coilovers out, we can assume that this product is designed for two uses(adjustable, right?) in the MZ3/MS3 community:
1) OEM replacement dampers (big market here)
2) Level of damping stiffness between OEM & full "coilovers" (~400ft/lb springs) to suit springs like CS lowering springs & swifts (~250 ft/lbs springs).

For this reason, I'm referring to the adjustable dampers offer by Corksport as "OEM+" in the graphs below.

MS3 folks that want to replace stock dampers but not going with manufacturer's "coilover" setup and spring rates has had two sets of choices for quality replacement dampers: Koni and Bilstien. I'm not touching "Sen Sen" or whatever other Taiwanese/Chinese companies, don't ask.

Each of these companies offer two sets replacement dampers, one of which is supposedly more sporty or might be adjustable.

-Koni has the SRT.T and the Sport (A.K.A Yellow)

*Not including FSD, because I'm not sure how it would plot!
*Both SRT.T and Sport are twin tube type struts (same as oem)
*Sport is rebound adjustable, SRT.T is not

-Bilstein has the B4 & B6/B8

*B8 and B6 have the same valving, but B8's have a shorter shaft.
*B8/B6 are "inverted monotubes"
*B4 is twin tube non-inverted, and marketed toward the 3

Comparison 1 -

Bilstein B4 vs Koni SRT.T vs CS Adjustable OEM+

What's in comparison 1?
Fronts
-Notable, the front strut comparison is missing alot. We have no data on the B4's front damping data (bilstein doesn't have it), and we don't have the compression damping for the CS Adjustables.
-CS adjustables are much less dampened then the SRT.T's over the high speeds (5-20i/s) which mean big bumps taken fast shouldn't hurt.
-CS Adjustables are very close to SRT.T's in low speed damping force (1-3i/s) which is important for controlling body roll and pitch.
-These two factors make it look almost too sharp of a curve to be really digressive. It looks almost as if the valving is "blowing off" at high speeds.

Rears
-Better comparison here, since we have the B4's
-In particular, the CS Adjustables fill a nice void between the Koni's and the Bilstiens, in regard to low speed rebound dampening. You can see the curve between 2 & 4 i/s measurements as the dampening softens at high speed to significantly less than the Bilstiens and Koni's.

Comparison 2 -

Bilstein B8 vs Koni Sport vs CS Adjustable OEM+

Fronts&Rears
-Koni Sports are at Full Soft for rebound adjustment. According to the tech, they will double in rebound at full stiff.
-Very similar to comparison 1, except that the B8's & Sports are slightly more dampened, and I mean slightly. In another thread I'll post comparisons between the Sport&SRT.T and the B4&B8. It's amazing how close they are, especially for the price difference.
-The B8's have similar levels of high speed and low speed damping in comparison to Bilstien's "coilover" kit PSS/B14 which has close to 400 ft/lb springs, and according to my numbers are valved accordingly. This should put things in perspective for CS Adjustables. By no means is that a "soft" high speed. This should also demonstrate how stiff shocks might get to control body roll/pitch for low speed.

Limitations of this Data and Reliability Concerns
- I was quick to make fun of Chinese/Taiwanese in one of the opening paragraphs (it's been said that these are NOT produced there), but we don't know where or who actually makes these. After all, our lovely oem dampers are made somewhere in Eastern Europe/Poland? (correct me if I'm wrong)
-Specific to the longevity of the dampers, some of my research into the stock dampers has led me to believe that one of the major faults of the stock struts, leading to leaking/blown struts is the seal. The stock damper uses a combination seal which does three things:
1)Seats the inner tube in the twin tube body
2)Seals the outer tube
3)Seals the shaft and inner tube
I'm fairly confident that the stress of having three jobs causes this seal to go bad at some point.

According to Corksport, these adjustable dampers uses two seals, and outer tube "Quad Ring" (A.K.A X-ring for those of your familiar with motorcycle chains), and a separate inner tube/ shaft seals. It's my hope that this that these are less prone to blow out then the stock shocks- but that's not setting the bar very high. Time and reviews will tell about the actual longevity.

-To be clear the above data is "Design Data" not truly dynograph data of an actual shock. These data combined with tolerances are bench marks for what the shocks shock look like. If it was possible to compare tolerances for each point between manufacters, we might have a better picture of quality comparison in regards to damping forces.

-Along the lines of these not being dyno data- real dynographs could provide another important measure that we don't get from design data- Hysteresis or Hydraulic lock-up. By reputation, we can probably expect that OTS bilstiens and koni won't exhibit these problems, but it might be a reality with these shocks, especially when being run at full firm. Or they might be fine, we just don't have this information from CS or any other manufacturer.


What does all this mean?

-Given the high low speed damping at full stiff for the CS adjustable shocks (more than the bilstiens), and the fact they are exceeded by the Koni's - I feel pretty good saying these should provide enough dampening to control body roll at full stiff without the being too harsh at high speed. Ideally you shouldn't be using too much high speed damping (read: hitting big bumps) on the autox course. I can't speak for the track. The flatness of the high speed makes me think that I wouldn't want to DD this setting- but that's why they are adjustable?

-I don't have the data for full soft setting for the CS adjustables, but as the full soft is designed to be "like OEM dampers" I imagine that data is kind of useless of this type of comparison. I would hope that the low speed would fall more dramatically then the high speed for more a adjustable ride- but I'm honestly not well read on reading dampening data for comfort & DD characteristics.

-IMO these shocks might be a very good combination with some stock style "sport" springs, I.E CS lowering or swifts at least more so then the Bilsteins. Due to the adjustment to full stiff & low speed dampening characteristics, you might be able to kind of provide some extra body roll/pitch support with softer springs as an alternative to running "coilover" spring rates. Whenever you want to a more comfortable ride and rely more on the springs to control body roll, you can dial back on the adjuster.

-Not that this is perfect performance setup. It isn't. But for the setup like the type above, they have the benefit of being adjustable for extra low speed (Bilsteins aren't) and adjustable for less aggressive DD dampening (Koni's aren't).


The Take-away

-When replacing blown OEM shocks- you have a choice to make.

-Koni's and Bilstiens are a premium option, but they cost a premium (~$700). Also, the design data (IMO) seems to indicate that they support a higher spring rate than most stock style lowering springs offer. They also have reputation, which shouldn't be downplayed.

-You can buy random brand oem replacement of unknown quality for much, much cheaper (~$200-300). They won't be performance oriented, and it will be questionable how long they will last. Also, there is no reputation associated with running Monroes .

-The CS Adjustables look like they fill a nice void between the two current choices at $500, some option of sport adjustment but unknown reliability. However, Corksport does have a reputation. More reviews and long term testing are needed to really prove this product.

FEEDBACK WELCOME!


@CorkSport
I removed someone's email address from the google spreadsheet "edit" list to protect the innocent. It was listed as "Richard Harris", and just in case I removed it so the greater internet doesn't have that information.

I will do another typo check tomorrow morning... Also, double check that I've haven't been using the wrong damping vs. dampening.

[Sinister_Speed3]

Thanks @zenit;

The Edit really helped, I was trying to figure out what the raw data was saying in the pictures but I got lost. I am no suspension guru but what I read is that (based on the test results provided) the CS struts are in between at the lower velocities and softer than both in the higher velocities?

Obviously the strut setting (Full soft >>>Full Hard) is a factor as well as the spring pairing (CS, Cobb, Eibach, H&R). I really appreciate the time and energy to put this data together. I am probably entirely wrong in my synopsis and apologize in advance.

Nick

[zenit]

Originally Posted by Sinister_Speed3 Thanks @zenit; The Edit really helped, I was trying to figure out what the raw data was saying in the pictures but I got lost. I am no suspension guru but what I read is that (based on the test results provided) the CS struts are in between at the lower velocities and softer than both in the higher velocities?

Basically yes. Body movement is typically a slow speed event, real bumps are typically high speed.

Originally Posted by Sinister_Speed3 Thanks @zenit; Obviously the strut setting (Full soft >>>Full Hard) is a factor as well as the spring pairing (CS, Cobb, Eibach, H&R). I really appreciate the time and energy to put this data together. I am probably entirely wrong in my synopsis and apologize in advance. Nick

Actually, since we're jacking up shock forces at low speeds as "fake springs" I don't think that you'd be trying to pair damping forces with a particular spring set. Any of those sound like they might work. People run stock springs on Koni's and Bilstiens too. It might be more important to pick your springs based on DD tolerances (both in ride height and spring rate).

Thanks for reading!

[speed3 britz]

Got them delivered today, unsure yet when installing tho with my H&Rs. I do have one disappointment so far @Spencer@CorkSport;... I didn't get any Corksport love or drawings on the box or anything



Edit: My bad, found a note from Megan that promising I'd be getting something soon! You guys are forgiven lol

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by speed3 britz Got them delivered today, unsure yet when installing tho with my H&Rs. I do have one disappointment so far Spencer@CorkSport;... I didn't get any Corksport love or drawings on the box or anything Edit: My bad, found a note from Megan that promising I'd be getting something soon! You guys are forgiven lol

Will hopefully be noodz!!

[SpencerC]

Originally Posted by speed3 britz Got them delivered today, unsure yet when installing tho with my H&Rs. I do have one disappointment so far @Spencer@CorkSport;... I didn't get any Corksport love or drawings on the box or anything Edit: My bad, found a note from Megan that promising I'd be getting something soon! You guys are forgiven lol

I got all worried.

Megan to the rescue!

[Sinister_Speed3]

This looks like the route that I am going to take, going to try and place my order soon. @Spencer@CorkSport;
one question: with Koni's people replace both front and rear bump stops, with Bilsteins the bump stops are internal on the fronts but the rears can be replaced. What is recommended for the Corksport struts?

I did not see much mention of them in the instructions except for step 3D on page 4 I am trying to buy the other suspension parts so I can have everything ready to install during the holidays.

[nybe0010]

Originally Posted by Sinister_Speed3 This looks like the route that I am going to take, going to try and place my order soon. @Spencer@CorkSport; one question: with Koni's people replace both front and rear bump stops, with Bilsteins the bump stops are internal on the fronts but the rears can be replaced. What is recommended for the Corksport struts?

I heard rear shock mounts rarely go bad. You can re use rear bump stop you may have to cut it. Probably will need new strut mounts and bumpstops for the front.

[CorkSport]

Originally Posted by Lex This is a good question that I am not sure has been answered. Most aftermarket shocks "raise" the car when using the same springs versus OEM shocks due to higher static pressure and/or shaft length. Is this also the case with the CS shocks?

The factory setup was disassembled and the molds were produced for all of the lower have of the strut. This makes the fitment perfect with no raised or lowered height because of the strut body itself. The shaft is roughly the same length. When put side by side with the OEM piece they look identical to be identical length other than the adjustable knob. The one setting on the struts is basically stock and my favorite setting for OEM springs was ~5 because I like a higher dampening rate. I set the CS lowering springs at between 8-12 which was perfect for my driving style/comfort level. 16 would be a little to aggressive for most unless you have a really high spring rate or maybe on track days depending on setup.

i also think the OEM strut/shock should have been a higher dampening rate. Not sure if this was an after thought from mazda or if they were more designed for the mazda3. The rebound seems about right but the dampening makes the stock spring feel a bit bouncy. Maybe they were designed with those nice smooth roads in japan in mind.

I'm open to thoughts if anyone else has another opinion.

[jrotaryb]

Originally Posted by Brydon@CorkSport The factory setup was disassembled and the molds were produced for all of the lower have of the strut. This makes the fitment perfect with no raised or lowered height because of the strut body itself. The shaft is roughly the same length. When put side by side with the OEM piece they look identical to be identical length other than the adjustable knob. The one setting on the struts is basically stock and my favorite setting for OEM springs was ~5 because I like a higher dampening rate. I set the CS lowering springs at between 8-12 which was perfect for my driving style/comfort level. 16 would be a little to aggressive for most unless you have a really high spring rate or maybe on track days depending on setup. i also think the OEM strut/shock should have been a higher dampening rate. Not sure if this was an after thought from mazda or if they were more designed for the mazda3. The rebound seems about right but the dampening makes the stock spring feel a bit bouncy. Maybe they were designed with those nice smooth roads in japan in mind. I'm open to thoughts if anyone else has another opinion.

I remember reading a story when the 2010 MS3 was released that talked up the revisions to the suspension system. As I recall, Dave Coleman (former SCCC editor, now at Mazdaspeed) developed the car specifically in the US (at Laguna Seca). Of course, this could have all been marketing the car at the time...

I had the article in my favorites but it seems inside line took it down or something.

[Sinister_Speed3]

Well I am not usually an early adopter but I am going to be placing my order in the morning for the shocks. Hopefully I can provide some feedback to MSF. @CorkSport; any word on bump stop replacements? I am looking to buy some Fat Cats soon so that I can replace everything once.

Nick

[ABolewski]

What if we don't have the OEM struts anymore. Besides looking for used ones, anybody know where to get OEM top hats at a decent price?
I'm looking to get these and the CS springs for a daily suspension setup. The ISC N1's are just too racecar.

[Crarrs]

Originally Posted by ABolewski What if we don't have the OEM struts anymore. Besides looking for used ones, anybody know where to get OEM top hats at a decent price? I'm looking to get these and the CS springs for a daily suspension setup. The ISC N1's are just too racecar.

Mazda Motorsports

[CorkSport]

Originally Posted by Sinister_Speed3 Well I am not usually an early adopter but I am going to be placing my order in the morning for the shocks. Hopefully I can provide some feedback to MSF. @CorkSport; any word on bump stop replacements? I am looking to buy some Fat Cats soon so that I can replace everything once. Nick

We are not supplying bump stops for the fronts, the Fatcats are a good option to get.

-Derrick

[SpencerC]

Originally Posted by Sinister_Speed3 This looks like the route that I am going to take, going to try and place my order soon. @Spencer@CorkSport; one question: with Koni's people replace both front and rear bump stops, with Bilsteins the bump stops are internal on the fronts but the rears can be replaced. What is recommended for the Corksport struts? I did not see much mention of them in the instructions except for step 3D on page 4 I am trying to buy the other suspension parts so I can have everything ready to install during the holidays.

Sorry I missed this. Looks like Derrick responded though. The rears are built in so you don't need to replace them.

[Tokay444]

Most everyone's front bump stops are going to be completely disintegrated.

[daafisch]

Yeah, they get destroyed on with the stock suspension. Ground Control are a cheaper option than FatCat.

[yldcrd]

What company have you to produce this product? I currently own the koni sports which I purchased from corksport as well.

Though I want to know the differences in build quality and reliability between the two, to justify the switch...

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