BNR Stage 2 - not worth it without upgrading exhaust?

[vshang]

I got my BNR Stage 2 tuned last week. It was a warm day, and on a mustang dyno, but I can't help wishing I saw better numbers. Max torque was 280, at 3750rpm. Max HP was 230 at 5500rpm or so. Only other drivetrain mod I have is a Cobb SRI.

Most dynos I've seen of MS3's whether modded or not have had the max torque and HP numbers having a difference of not more than 20 or 30. I noticed the torque curve falling quite fast, so the HP doesn't climb very much with rising RPM. The shop said this was because I am still on the stock exhaust, which is very restrictive. However, living in CA, I don't really want to mess with the exhaust system... But I wonder if there's anything else in my car that is preventing the torque curve from being more flat?

Thanks for any insight.

[snailD]

our exhaust is not restrictive, the downpipe is however

[manelscout4life]

and stock fuel pump I'm assuming?

what psi did you get tuned to?

[atvfreek]

Do you have any datalogs. Probably still a lot more power to squeeze out. There aren't too many shops that know how to tune speeds.

Just about anybody that knows how to tune these cars is right here on this forum.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

[Boost Addict]

PERM Tuning

/thread

[zenger]

That's super low imo.

Above post has the rights about it, get some internals and a downpipe and make 320HP+ and 400TQs!

[Lex]

The STG 2 is not a big flow turbo but we need more info including an important WOT log to see what's going on.

[Caldazar]

yes, fuel pump internals for sure, then downpipe and a proper tune again. It will wake the eff up.

But leave it be until you get a fuel pump internal setup or you will most likely boom it up.

[vshang]

Thanks for the replies. For some reason I'm not getting the notifications so I didn't think anyone was replying to this.

Yes, I am on stock fuel pump.

It was tuned to 20psi tapering to 16.

I'm getting some boost cut and/or fuel cut also, which the tuner is trying to fix by reducing the trims in the rpms where it's happening.

He said I don't need a fuel pump... what he said was really needed was a DP. But as I said, being in CA, I'm not sure I want to do anything to the exhaust. But maybe it's not as bad as I thought and I should just go through with a DP...

I need to figure out how to post logs. What parameters do I need to log? Boost pressure, RPM, AFR, ... ?

[Don06speed6]

You need a new tuner

[Caldazar]

I was going to be nicer about it but arrive at the same conclusion.

For your sake, make sure you are logging fuel pressure constantly while on the dyno. Or any other hard, full redline pulls.

If your fuel pressure starts to fall off by more than a little bit(IE its at 1600, and then it starts to fall off quickly to 1200 or even less), let off the gas and turn down the boost at the RPM it starts to fall off.

Then get and install a set of HPFP internals, break them in and then retune.

If your pressure is not falling off, please take these posts as attempts to save you thousands of dollars in a new engine.

[crazyp]

fuel pump or internals at least. if he says you dont need it he shouldnt touch your car. DP will make it worse without fuel pump.

[Rich-PMS]

Email Finkle. Hell help you out with tuning.


You definitely need fuel pump internals ASAP


You don't need a downpipe to make good power. I made 267whp and 269tq with an intake, TIP, and catback.


Personally, I wouldn't trust that guy tuning your car. Let Finkle help you out, and then go back to that dyno. I bet you put down 290whp

[ms6forthewin]

u need everything, not just an upgraded turbo

[vshang]

thanks for the referral. i'm not acquainted with Finkle... is this "rfinkle2"?

i would get "everything" if i could afford it!

I went to the tuner that I did because he was the only "Cobb authorized tuner" anywhere near me. I figured Cobb wouldn't stand behind them if they didn't know what he was doing.... but what do i know.

[xtasy]

Originally Posted by vshang thanks for the referral. i'm not acquainted with Finkle... is this "rfinkle2"? i would get "everything" if i could afford it! I went to the tuner that I did because he was the only "Cobb authorized tuner" anywhere near me. I figured Cobb wouldn't stand behind them if they didn't know what he was doing.... but what do i know.

Get fuel pump internals or fuel pump or you're looking into having a blown engine in the near future.

[jman46]

You guys make me laugh with the fuel pump comments left and right, "get internals and you'll be ok." I for one am on the STOCK PUMP and I hold 1700+ all fucking day. He very well may not need one and needs to look elsewhere for shit, as in a new tuner for starters. And I would get a DP pronto to take advantage of a Stg. 2 turbo.

[HARPER306]

Originally Posted by jman46 You guys make me laugh with the fuel pump comments left and right, "get internals and you'll be ok." I for one am on the STOCK PUMP and I hold 1700+ all fucking day. He very well may not need one and needs to look elsewhere for shit, as in a new tuner for starters. And I would get a DP pronto to take advantage of a Stg. 2 turbo.

why spend x amount of money and not get fp/internals, when it is a veeerry common necessity to keep your engine alive? cheaper to buy $400 internals when you dont need them then however much a new engine is once you blow it

besides eventually you will need the internals, whether joe or bob says his fp holds on stock pump. the cost/risk isnt worth it to keep a stock pump

[TWOptSL0W]

im still on stock catback and just shy of 400 right now (according to vdyno so probably still like 380ish on a real dyno) so stock catback is fine

[jman46]

Why fix/replace shit when it's not broke? And it's not like I'm not monitoring it, obvifuckingously if I see it go south, then I'll replace it. And if you want to criticize, how about the OP....who puts in a stage 2 turbo and rocks stock everything and wonders why he's making only 280tq?

[xtasy]

Originally Posted by jman46 Why fix/replace shit when it's not broke? And it's not like I'm not monitoring it, obvifuckingously if I see it go south, then I'll replace it. And if you want to criticize, how about the OP....who puts in a stage 2 turbo and rocks stock everything and wonders why he's making only 280tq?

I hope you monitor it by datalog and not looking the AP screen or whatever you use to monitor.

Because my stock internal drop to low 800 then back to 1700 in a split second.
I caught it by looking at the log. I was looking at the AP monitor the whole time I floored it.

The fact that he said he have fuel cut and what not already stated the fact that he needs a stronger fuel pump.

[jman46]

Originally Posted by xtasy I hope you monitor it by datalog and not looking the AP screen or whatever you use to monitor. Because my stock internal drop to low 800 then back to 1700 in a split second. I caught it by looking at the log. I was looking at the AP monitor the whole time I floored it. The fact that he said he have fuel cut and what not already stated the fact that he needs a stronger fuel pump.

I have numerous logs where they don't show it below 1600+ at WOT. And yes I agree I forgot he mentioned fuel cut so then yes most likely it is his FP. I really would like to see some logs of his car though....I can only imagine what they might look like.

[vshang]

Hi All,

I know this is a super old thread, but just thought I'd provide an update in case anyone is interested.

So, I upgraded my fuel pump as recommended, and got a Cobb downpipe. This fixed some problems that I had after the first tune (fuel cut, surging), and I went back to get it tuned again. While the power was smoother now, you can imagine my frustration when my car still didn't make any more power than before. The tuner (Fine Line Imports in Santa Rosa) didn't offer much explanation, and only offered that I might want to install a catch can due to engine blow-by that he observed.

Fast forward to today. I had my second kid, and my mazdaspeed3 has taken a backseat ever since then. I went back to the stock map, and have been just DD'ing it and enjoying it for what it is. But the BIG NEWS is that my BNR turbo broke. Apparently the bearings for the turbine went bad. So now either going to have BNR repair or replace it.

The question I have is: if I'm going to be fixing the turbo anyway, has the tuning scene for speed3's in the SF bay area improved much over the years? The reason I drove almost 2 hrs to Santa Rosa was because there weren't any Cobb approved tuners near me at the time. After the disappointing experience with FLI last time, I'm hoping I can find another one (preferably closer). Does anyone have any recommendations?? It would be very much appreciated.

Thanks all for reading and hoping I can breathe some new life into my Speed3.

[HARPER306]

my comments were directed to op, just in response to what you posted

not trying to say your wrong for having stock fp, but if op has all this shiz and no dp and no fp, his next step should be the fp, or else its just a matter of time. JMO

and i wont rag on op for that shitty power, he didnt tune it. op you should pm finkle or dj

[Solarsurge]

e-Tunes have come a long way, my friend. Most e-Tuners can tune WAY more modded cars than yours in their sleep. I wouldn't even bother getting dyno tuned unless you are pushing serious power where tiny little changes can net big power differences. Any e-Tune by any one of the reputable tuners on this forum will probably yield better results at far lower cost than dyno tuning from a random local.

[KiwiFlavor]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge e-Tunes have come a long way, my friend. Most e-Tuners can tune WAY more modded cars than yours in their sleep. I wouldn't even bother getting dyno tuned unless you are pushing serious power where tiny little changes can net big power differences. Any e-Tune by any one of the reputable tuners on this forum will probably yield better results at far lower cost than dyno tuning from a random local.

This.

E-tune is sufficient for most people at the convenience of your email. No need to drive 2 hours to a shop that PROBABLY don't know much about speeds.

[MSMS3]

E-tune from one of our respected tuners after replacing the BNR 2. They will review your data logs and revise until it is spot on for your mods. The stock dp and mid pipe are where the restrictions are, not so much the CBE until you get above a true 300 whp. If your new downpipe has a high flow cat and you've either gone to a straight through race pipe or a high flow cat midpipe, then you are ready for that tune when you get the new turbo. Stand alone local tuners rarely know this platform and don't know how to tune for your mods. A good e-tuner is the perfect solution and will be your best friend.

[vshang]

Thanks all for chiming in. A few questions:

1. Can someone point to a list of e-tuners? I went to the "E-Tuners / Custom Hardparts" subform (E-Tuners / Custom Hardparts - Mazdaspeed Forums) and only saw one forum for Stratified Automotive Controls. I noticed that Freektune is a forum sponsors, so that's another one. Should I just choose between these two? I found a few more on Google, but didn't see them in the forums...

2. I was seeing a bit of smoke at WOT in the lower gears before my turbo died. BNR had mentioned that a possible cause of failure for the turbo is blow-by. Assuming my compression is OK, would a catch can help, or is there anything else I should do?

3. I will be shipping my broken turbo back to BNR to have them repair it. Do you guys think that's a good idea, or should I just get a new one from them? I don't suppose any bay area Nator folks would be curious to take a peek at the old one before I send it off to BNR?

[Thor Hammer]

Originally Posted by vshang Thanks all for chiming in. A few questions: 1. Can someone point to a list of e-tuners? I went to the "E-Tuners / Custom Hardparts" subform (E-Tuners / Custom Hardparts - Mazdaspeed Forums) and only saw one forum for Stratified Automotive Controls. I noticed that Freektune is a forum sponsors, so that's another one. Should I just choose between these two? I found a few more on Google, but didn't see them in the forums... 2. I was seeing a bit of smoke at WOT in the lower gears before my turbo died. BNR had mentioned that a possible cause of failure for the turbo is blow-by. Assuming my compression is OK, would a catch can help, or is there anything else I should do? 3. I will be shipping my broken turbo back to BNR to have them repair it. Do you guys think that's a good idea, or should I just get a new one from them? I don't suppose any bay area Nator folks would be curious to take a peek at the old one before I send it off to BNR?

1. Contact Freektune. You will be very, very happy. There is also Tuned by Nishan and Purple Drank.

2. Do a compression and leak down test and post the numbers.

3. Send it off for a rebuild or get an S3/S4 and downpipe. And an aftermarket TMIC as stock sucks and heatsoaks easily. Then you wont be disappointed in the HP numbers. But don't expect a wildly huge gain on our shitty California 91 octane. Maybe consider getting a second map from Freektune for E85. Most run around a 30% mix and gain around 50HP over pump gas only.