Dale's custom FMIC setup for MS6 - take 2

[dale_gribble]

Quick background: I started out with a CX Racing FMIC kit about 2 year ago. The kit worked, but had too many compromises for me; some of which were significant hacking of air diverter panel on bottom of front bumper, increased coolant temp, pretty bad rubbing on the body where the hot side drops down by the frame, removal of 2 gallon windshield washer reservoir, and otherwise pretty marginal fitment. I went back to a TMIC and introduced myself to methanol. After a LONG time to think about it, I am going to piece together my own kit. Now I want to take advantage of an FMIC AND methanol.

Corksport and CP-E no longer make FMICs for the MS6 and as far as I know, there is NOTHING on the horizon for MS6'ers. I think we are pretty much done at this point. MS3 got all of the FMIC love and MS6 didn't get much.

Cost aside, I was never super impressed with the CS and CP-E offerings. The CP-E kit required that massive undertray and air diverter hacking and the CS kit also had things that bugged me a bit although I have always thought the CP-E and CS kits had relatively better hotside routing because there is quite a bit more room on the driver side. They definitely sacrificed things to keep the crashbar in tact, and I don't blame them. If I were CP-E or CS, I would never suggest that someone modify a safety feature of a vehicle.

This is basically what I came up with.

At the heart of this is a CX racing core. It's core is 24x7x3.5", pretty much in between the TR6 and TR8 size wise. It does have 3" inlets, but no biggie, I'll use reducers there. I like how the end tanks span the entire core in a vertical configuration on this intercooler. From what I have read the vertical configuration seem to have a slight advantage to standard horizontal configurations.



I am going to cut the crash bar and box it, and build a custom mount for the CX core to mount to the crash bar. The CX core will sit just behind the crashbar on a custom mount; just far enough back so the inlets and outlets have clearance.

The core will be high enough to not interfere with the stock air diverter on the front bumper.

The CX Racing routing on the cold side was good so I am going to use it. It's short and only has a sweeping 180 and then a straight shot into the throttle body. I'll have the cold pipe tapped for the methanol fitting the way I had the stock pipe tapped. I like having the methanol nozzle flush with the inner diameter of the pipe.

For the hot side, I am going to follow CP-E's hotside routing though I will work to reduce the angles a bit. I always thought the CP-E hotside routing was pretty clean. The hot side will route a little further out than the cold side pretty much like how it was designed.

I am going to use 2.25" pipe to start as @TiGraySpeed6; has had luck with it having similar mods and BNRS3.

My budget for this, including everything (parts, couplers, adapters, welded crashbar, meth nozzle bung weld, etc) is <$475 or so- $225 for the IC, $100 for welding/materials and $150 in piping/couplers. Once the kit is pieced on, I will probably have some couplers removed and sections welded and have some support brackets welded on the piping to minize airleaks/issues.

I will start ordering parts this week to arrive next week (6/9-6/13); I will then be doing the install from 6/16-6/20 or so.

Expect my typical write up during and after this.

[Big Dog]

I've been debating going FMIC on the 6 but not much is out there in the quality department so I have stuck with my CS TMIC. I can't wait for your results!

[Hargarbl]

I have the CX FMIC on my 6 and when I installed it i went ahead and hacked the crashbar in half. I would love another option especially and option with a vertical core, Mainly because I personally like the looks of them better, and also the option to reinstall my washer fluid tank (because love bugs SUCK). You seem to be doing some good shit lately and im excited to see where this goes. Good luck, and I hope I will be ok to steal the design if it works and I like it.

edit: Also, whats the part number for the core, i tried looking on CX's site but couldnt find one to match those dimensions.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Looking forward to watching you create this version, especially with your previous FMIC experience.

[sidekick]

Looks good man, we definitely don't have many options for FMICs. Your setup looks close to how full race did theirs for the MS6, minus replacing the crash bar with an aftermarket crash bar and yours won't cost $1K+ lol. Here's theirs on a GenPu:

[Code Monkey]

I was about to suggest looking at the FullRace setup.

Why not go with 2.5" piping -- do it right the first time and be done with it.

[Boostin'likeAboss]

protege garage is also working on an ms6 fmic as we speak

[rymanmazda]

I'm very interesting into seeing this! I've always wanted to go the FMIC route but I didn't want to hack the crap out of the crash bar and lose my perfectly good washer tank. If this turns out to be easy. I might sell my ETS TMIC and go FMIC.

[dale_gribble]

I had a few questions come up, especially since I have gone FMIC back to TMIC and added meth injection, and why I am going back to FMIC.

I 100% still feel the aftermarket TMIC + WMI is a superior combination for a hard working k04. I felt that the combination of the two had more capability to flow/cool than the k04 needed to make a good performing car.

Here is why I am going back to FMIC:

I went to a bigger turbo (BNR S3v2). I have a suspicion that the SU TMIC doesn't have the flow capability to support the turbo and it's holding me back a bit at this point; I also feel the TMIC is on the edge of being able to support effective thermal transfer from the larger turbo. I aggravated the TMIC thermal capability by adding a header/downpipe and pulling all stock heat shielding. That made a huge difference. The stock heat shielding is VERY effective.

I can see by monitoring boost temps that the TMIC + WMI on D07 isn't on top of the boost temps the way the setup was with the k04. Instead of pulling BATs down to ambient like before, BATs only come to within 10F of ambient during a pull.

If it came down to just temps, I would just go with a bigger WMI nozzle (D10) and tune it in. However, again, since I feel that the TMIC is limiting flow, I'll go FMIC.

I don't think it's the TMIC core itself that is the flow limiter. I think it's probably the outlet from the cold side of the tank and the cold tube that's limiting air flow. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think I am and my instincts are usually pretty good.

Originally Posted by Boostin'likeAboss protege garage is also working on an ms6 fmic as we speak

Are you talking about the one they started in 2006 and never got to market? Or did they resurrect it? The setup wasn't too bad really, although the routing was a little ugly.

Do you have any links/info?

[Boostin'likeAboss]

dated may 23rd

I don't know the details but I am assuming it's a piping kit fabbed by them + a tr8 core

[DamagedGoods]

I've always liked the TR62 core for a similar setup, and have wanted to built a kit for some time using it.

I'm interested to see your results with the CX core.

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[Koke382]

The PG kit is around 500 and comes with tr8 core. Best bang fo yo buck.

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[Big Dog]

I'm curious to see Protege's setup. The inlet and outlet being on the same side has routing advantages. I don't really like the idea of messing with my crash bat to much so here's hoping we get a decent kit.

[Enki]

I've always hated the fact that most FMIC setups route piping all over the place; if I ever were to go FMIC, it would be a setup like this. In fact, I talked about this kind of a setup with @udntknw; a week or two ago.

Good stuff man, but would this thread be better off in the custom hardparts section?

[Mazdazilla6]

I have a custom FMIC on my 6 that routes hot and cold on the driver's side. I love it, the core is a little on the small side (smaller than a TR6) but it works great for a k04. I didn't cut my crashbar for it so I trimmed a little of the air diverter on the bumper, but it's still there (well not anymore as it isn't there because it got torn off by a pile of ice this winter). The hardest part is getting the pipes to squeeze past the power steering cooler. Also I agree with the 2.25 pipes, 2.5 may be good for a bigger turbo (gt35+) but my pipes are 2.25 are a very tight in some spots so I can't imagine how hard it would be to fit 2.5. If you need any pics Dale just let me know.

[Karmat]

Curious to see the results. A tr8 sized core piped without too many sacrifices that we see on the 6 to make it work would be pretty awesome. Although it seems quite a few people got it to work routing it by the power steering pump.

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[Big Dog]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 I have a custom FMIC on my 6 that routes hot and cold on the driver's side. I love it, the core is a little on the small side (smaller than a TR6) but it works great for a k04. I didn't cut my crashbar for it so I trimmed a little of the air diverter on the bumper, but it's still there (well not anymore as it isn't there because it got torn off by a pile of ice this winter). The hardest part is getting the pipes to squeeze past the power steering cooler. Also I agree with the 2.25 pipes, 2.5 may be good for a bigger turbo (gt35+) but my pipes are 2.25 are a very tight in some spots so I can't imagine how hard it would be to fit 2.5. If you need any pics Dale just let me know.

I'd be interested in seeing some pics.

[Mazdazilla6]

Ok these pics are from last summer when I threw it on,

Pics of it off the car:

IMG_0043.PNG

IMG_0044.PNG

During installation (no it's not held on with zip ties, they were just to get everything straight while I made the bracketing to hold the piping and core)

IMG_5285.jpg

IMG_5293.jpg

Test fitting bumper:

IMG_5300.jpg

Finished product:

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The car is currently getting some work done at a bodyshop but once I get it back I can pull off the bumper to grab some better pics for what I had to do for pipe and core brackets. I had to get a little bit inventive with it but I made it work and it's completely reversible and everything is solid as a rock.

[2.3speed06]

Can't wait to see some results. I've been wanting to go FMIC for a min.

[Nino]

I have a CX racing FMIC coming in the mail but I am already reluctant to install it.

I feel ghetto hacking up the car, losing features and most likely raising my coolant temps.

I REALLY want an FMIC though because of heat soak in AZ. My BATS have lately been 165-170 while barely creeping down to the mid-high 150's while initially moving.

Today in traffic my BAT's were in the mid 170's and even hit 180!! I had little to no torque..

[Danfriscia3]

In for results. Me and a buddy are currently planning a custom setup for his six.

[Big Dog]

Originally Posted by Nino I have a CX racing FMIC coming in the mail but I am already reluctant to install it. I feel ghetto hacking up the car, losing features and most likely raising my coolant temps. I REALLY want an FMIC though because of heat soak in AZ. My BATS have lately been 165-170 while barely creeping down to the mid-high 150's while initially moving. Today in traffic my BAT's were in the mid 170's and even hit 180!! I had little to no torque..

It's the summer heat and it's only going to get worse. Are you on the stock TMIC? I'm running CorkSport's TMIC with decent results. I drive around with BAT's that high last weekend and I still have torque and can get up and go. You probably need a tune if you are having that much power loss. The Speed 6 heat soaks really bad which is it's biggest downfall. I think that's why the GenPu got a scoop. On my other cars I have experimented with FMIC vs TMIC in our climate and unfortunately the FMIC sits so low it's getting all the heat radiating from the tarmac. Cruising temps where basically the same but if you do a lot of city/stop and go traffic a FMIC will not heat soak and will never get as hot as the TMIC. Once the upgraded TMIC cools off its more than adequate in 115+ degree AZ dry heat. But it's nice to not start your car and your TMIC is so heat soaked your BAT is 200+ and takes a couple minutes to come down after you start driving. I'm going BNR S3 in the winter so that's why I'm interested in finding a good FMIC solution for the MS6.

[DVM17]

Just as reference guys. I will be the tester for the PG fmic kit for the speed 6. as for details, I do know it'll have the tr8 core as well as the pipes running on the driver's side. (no washer reservoir relocation required)

More details to come when it's actually in and fabbed up.

For reference, as I've heard multiple times from many people, Protege Garage is under new ownership and is better than ever now. I would fully expect them to be a major supporter and parts supplier in the near future. The new owner is doing a superb job!

[dale_gribble]

Problem with the tr8 is that means a hard 180 and a lot of extra pipe to go to the driver side.

The vertical flow same side inlet/outlet is a better solution. Tell them to evolve the cp-e type setup. Share my prospective setup if you want.

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[Code Monkey]

translation = I'm the new owner

[Lakespeed6]

I don't see you gaining a bunch from going FMIC.
I bet a set of TIGs would net the same if not more benefit.
I was able to push 450 whp on the CP-e TMIC.
I'm sure I could have gained 20hp with a fmic but the simplicity of meth and tmic was nice.
I was also pushing a lot more air then the bnr is capable of.

That said interested in results and always glad to see options for the 6!

[Big Dog]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Problem with the tr8 is that means a hard 180 and a lot of extra pipe to go to the driver side. The vertical flow same side inlet/outlet is a better solution. Tell them to evolve the cp-e type setup. Share my prospective setup if you want. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I have to agree, a setup similar to CPE-s is ideal. The idea of more piping with sharp bends sucks.

[dale_gribble]

Originally Posted by Lakespeed6 I don't see you gaining a bunch from going FMIC. I bet a set of TIGs would net the same if not more benefit. I was able to push 450 whp on the CP-e TMIC. I'm sure I could have gained 20hp with a fmic but the simplicity of meth and tmic was nice. I was also pushing a lot more air then the bnr is capable of. That said interested in results and always glad to see options for the 6!

That's a good data point. I haven't previously read top mounts getting anywhere near that. The CP-E is the big dog of the TMICs though and was severely overbuilt for the k04. I wonder if the smaller 3" core units can flow as well as that. I always thought the TMIC/cold pipe junction was the flow limiter, but 450whp is 450whp. Can't argue that.

I could get start with a D10 nozzle up from the D07 and fab a nice heat shield for my header and be done with it.

Have the TIGs really proven their merit that much? I just assumed everything reaches a thermal equilibrium after heat soaking and isolating parts really isn't going to do a whole lot.

[Code Monkey]

TIGs + EGR delete + coolant reroute netted a 20 degree drop in BATs for me.

That said, I am still able to hit +200 F at the track.

[dale_gribble]

Ok, here is the cold side pretty much mapped out. I think these parts would get the cold side very close if not complete. PNs are listed. Cost so far including intercooler is at $387.50. Figure about another $125 or so for the hot side. I will have my NPT bung for WMI welded on the BOV adapter.

Not a huge fan of all the couplers for the mock up, but if this comes together and works right, I'll get a shop to fab it in 2 pieces for you fuckers that want it.

SI = Siliconeintakes.com
CX = Cxracing.com
Greddy adapter available at multiple places

[Big Dog]

I love silicone intakes. I buy a lot of my stuff there for many of my other cars. I'm hoping this works out. I was looking at driver side routing and how it will do with my JBR Stage2 OCC that's mounted in that area. I lovemy MS6 but my MS3 seems easier in someregards.

[dale_gribble]

Here's the hotside mapped out. So, my estimated total project cost for the hotside with clamps is $255.39. That brings the total project cost to about $679 with all clamps not including shipping or tax.

If I could get the parts at wholesale or a really good discount I would do it, but $679 is too much just for parts. I still have to consider welding work on the crashbar, welding the WMI bung, intercooler mounts, etc. and I am sure a few more parts, so we are talking $800-$850 by the time I am done. No wonder Corksport and CP-E discontinued these; they are a PITA and the margins probably aren't that great. I find it unlikely they are getting a 2x markup on parts at low volumes not to mention the non recurring expenses during R&D and test.

I am just going to have to shelve this one for now unless I find a way to get the cost way down. $500 was pretty much my limit.

Maybe I'll just get the D10 and work with what I've got.

[Hargarbl]

At that price you might as well wait for a used CP-E to go on sale

[dale_gribble]

Ya, reworking a used CP-E to my spec would be a lot easier than this. I called CP-E and they have 0 in stock anymore.

[Big Dog]

Well Damn. Thanks for trying Dale. I had been really eye balling CorkSport's kit but sadly they discontinued it and you had given me hope of an alternative.

[Mazdazilla6]

I think it's definitely doable for less than $600. The biggest factor is the core and I think using a treadstone with the hotside run behind it is more cost effective than a vertical flow. I got my fmic for $180 shipped and yea it was used but I don't think it would be a whole lot more to make one.

[dale_gribble]

I've been able to get the cost for everything including the core ($200) down to $587 with shipping/tax if I spread out across about 5 vendors.

Getting better. I'll do another pass tomorrow and see if I can get it much lower and if I can get any universal kits to help with costs. CX Racing direct still has the best prices on Al piping.

[dale_gribble]

Alright, I've been working everything and thinking about it and I just can't come up with a solution I am very excited about, pricewise, routing wise or reliability wise. The only thing I would even consider is just relocating my meth tank to trunk and running the CX kit type routing. That really is the absolutely cleanest run IMO, minus the tank relocate which isn't really a big deal at the end of the day.

In the meantime, I am going to give the TMIC one more hoorah. After much deliberation I picked up an ETS TMIC and I'm going to be doing a few more things, including turbo heat shields to optimize the TMIC setup. I think I can get what I need out of the TMIC. Installing a big heat shield over the turbo and header is going to really help things out after I pulled all of the stock stuff off.

[memin]

back to square one, I have my ETS TMIC for two years and some change now and heat soak is minimal in comparison with stock TMIC I am happy with it. That is when I go bnr by the end of the year I will continue using TMIC. To me the gains of a front mount intercooler are not worth the cost , headaches and the slag. My bats are in 140 on stop and go traffic here in Hawaii!!

[aviator79]

I think A TMIC would be fine with the BNR but IDK why every kit uses the OEM cold pipe. Need a good TMIC that has 3" cold pipe to TB IMO.

I originally had an ETS 3.5" TMIC then switched to CPE FMIC now have a Spearco core with piping setup similar to your plan.

There are other options for the Spearco core such as CX racing like you planned. Silicone Intakes and Treadstone also sells a similar shaped cores.

https://turboneticsinc.com/store/ind...product_id=104

Top to Bottom Intercooler

TRV185 Series Intercooler 720HP- TREADSTONE PERFORMANCE

I almost did a side to side setup with Garret core but was worried pipes would get in the way of my fogs when I went to put bumper back on so I used the Spearco T2B core I had. I also wanted to keep WW tank and felt that there was not enough room to run a 2.5" pipe infront of engine thou others say it works.

I installed this when I put my BNR on 2 years ago and finally replaced all the piping and couplers a few months ago with SI pipes/couplers along with adding PS cooler as it is in the way.

I had planed to weld beads but crimped the ends of the pipes instead and came out fine.