Exploding Engines

[KhalidBiary]

With all these posts on exploding motors , I'm kinda getting scared even tho my engine is pretty much bone stock at 130,000 miles. Can you accelerate in 3-6 gear under 3,000 miles without going into boost? Like if I'm at 6th gear at 65 around 2600 RPM's , can I lightly apply gas to go faster. Not slam the Pedal in , just lightly apply some gas?


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[Sandman978]

Accelerating... Even moderately pressing the pedal... No problem. WOT in sixth, not so much. General rule, avoid full boost below 3000 rpm gears 1-4, 3250 in fifth, and just don't do it in sixth.

Fapped over pictures of Laguna Seca

[CWP_MS3]

Simple rule: If you're coming out of vacuum into low boost, you should downshift into 5th.

Otherwise it's potentially unnecessary load on the motor, and the clutch.

[Sandman978]

Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 Simple rule: If you're coming out of vacuum into low boost, you should downshift into 5th.

You say it with so much more eloquence than I, good sir. Think I just got wet.

Fapped over pictures of Laguna Seca

[g00s3y]

Have you owned the car from the beginning? If not, how many miles on it when you got it? Honestly, being completely stock, you have a lot less to worry about. Most of the people on here talking about blown motors have a decent amount of work done, or are fully bolted/big turbo.

If you enjoy the car, and want to keep it for a while, I would honestly, start setting aside a little money every paycheck, to get ready to build the engine, or at least for another re-manufactured engine. Not saying it's going to go anytime soon, but at 130,000 and climbing, it's getting into that territory.

[Fstrnyou]

Originally Posted by g00s3y If you enjoy the car, and want to keep it for a while, I would honestly, start setting aside a little money every paycheck, to get ready to build the engine, or at least for another re-manufactured engine. Not saying it's going to go anytime soon, but at 130,000 and climbing, it's getting into that territory.

I'm at 145k Miles with mods in sig. Picking up a long block on Monday. Preparing for the inevitable. Hoping to have the motor built before ZZB so I can have a 2nd rebuild ready.

[flapjack]

Obviously stock will be more reliable in any situation typically, but as long as you stay out of boost <3000 RPM, avoid high load/low RPM (going uphill at 1500 RPM in any gear), use high quality synthetic oil, and put a catch can on you should be fine.

[LenSpeed6]

all I had was a JBR intake on my car for about 6 miles before #4 rod decided to try to escape, otherwise my car was completely stock with 111K

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by LenSpeed6 all I had was a JBR intake on my car for about 6 miles before #4 rod decided to try to escape, otherwise my car was completely stock with 111K

Super typical of a stock 6. lol Safer with a e-tune pushing it to the edge than it is from the factory.

I recall being nervous about modding a brand new vehicle, voiding its warranty, and that I had no room or tools to work on. Then I read a thread about someone's bone stock 6 blowing a rod in stop and go traffic on the highway. I ordered about $1500 in parts the next day. lol

It's like life... When your number is up, it's up. Might as well mod and enjoy your car the way you would like to. You could keep it stock, and some mom in a minivan could ram your car and total it. I've seen cars with BT last exceptionally longer than they should.

[LenSpeed6]

yeah well the plan is to have a bottom end that will hold up to a stock ko4 haha. I will post some more pictures later tonight of some more awesomeness.

I have to decide what to do about a turbo, I don't want to chance it with the one that's on it incase there's any shrapnel in it. not sure if funds will allow for a BNR S2, CS or a stock replacement. not looking to set any records, just want reliability

[flapjack]

Yeah I read your post yesterday, that really sucks I hope the rebuild goes well. My guess is that the previous owner flogged it or did a lot of high boost/low RPM driving out of ignorance. I'd say close to 50% of people driving older speeds have no idea what they are and don't care either, just boosting in 6th gear to pass people on the highway all the way to work. Even a few high knock/detonation events can cause permanent damage over time to the rods/pistons that may not be noticeable until one finally lets go violently like yours.

[flapjack]

If you want ultimate reliability go with the BNR S1. Just a bit bigger than the k04 but way more reliable at stock boost levels.

K04: Compressor: 45mm/64 trim
Turbine: 44.5mm/79 trim

BNR S1: Compressor: 47mm/62 trim
Turbine: 47mm/76 trim

[Thor Hammer]

Originally Posted by flapjack If you want ultimate reliability go with the BNR S1. Just a bit bigger than the k04 but way more reliable at stock boost levels. K04: Compressor: 45mm/64 trim Turbine: 44.5mm/79 trim BNR S1: Compressor: 47mm/62 trim Turbine: 47mm/76 trim

Turbo choice does not affect reliability. The tune and how the car is driven does. As well as not pushing the motor over a certain HP/Torque output.

Its been discussed many times if you want to search around for more opinions and owners personal experiences going BT on stock blocks.

[flapjack]

I meant reliability as in no smoking like the stock k04, sorry I should have elaborated more. Stock turbo has 270 degree thrust bearing vs the BNR S1s 360 degree bearings which helps with the smoking problem.

However that will have no impact on reliabilty of the rest of your motor. Always get a quality tune before going BT.

[LenSpeed6]

Yes I agree that a tune is in order to polish up on everything and to insure in possibly more reliable service. I guess by reliability I did mean longevity, as everyone knows that ko4's develop a smoking problem. Even if I do decide to go with a stock rebuilt ko4 the plan is to get an AP and have the car tuned anyway. The BNR S1/S2 interest me because I am not looking to go nuts with this car but would like something better then stock. Always looking to put better built stuff on when it breaks but in this case its going to come down to the budget.

I'm spending the money on the bottom end to insure that it wont explode on me again, I only want to build this thing once lol.

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by LenSpeed6 I have to decide what to do about a turbo, I don't want to chance it with the one that's on it incase there's any shrapnel in it. not sure if funds will allow for a BNR S2, CS or a stock replacement. not looking to set any records, just want reliability

Originally Posted by flapjack If you want ultimate reliability go with the BNR S1. Just a bit bigger than the k04 but way more reliable at stock boost levels. K04: Compressor: 45mm/64 trim Turbine: 44.5mm/79 trim BNR S1: Compressor: 47mm/62 trim Turbine: 47mm/76 trim

^^^ In response to both of you:

A BNR s1/2 in my opinion is a complete waste of money. If you really aren't seeking power, you can pick up a low mileage ko4 from someone on here for $200-300. I would never spend more to barely be faster, especially when you have no want to go faster.

Secondly, very few people these days pop rods on small turbos. If they do, it is tune related, or their own idiocy, like putting mods on that they're not tuned for. Our biggest issue now, is losing compression due to rings failing; which can happen on any turbo. If you're going to spend money on a turbo, go BNR s3/s4 or something else. You'll have decent/safe power as long as you're not pushing it. And to push it, you'll need aux fueling. Otherwise, just go used stock turbo.

Key advice: get a good tuner, like Nishan.

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by CWP_MS3 ^^^ In response to both of you: A BNR s1/2 in my opinion is a complete waste of money. If you really aren't seeking power, you can pick up a low mileage ko4 from someone on here for $200-300. I would never spend more to barely be faster, especially when you have no want to go faster. Secondly, very few people these days pop rods on small turbos. If they do, it is tune related, or their own idiocy, like putting mods on that they're not tuned for. Our biggest issue now, is losing compression due to rings failing; which can happen on any turbo. If you're going to spend money on a turbo, go BNR s3/s4 or something else. You'll have decent/safe power as long as you're not pushing it. And to push it, you'll need aux fueling. Otherwise, just go used stock turbo. Key advice: get a good tuner, like Nishan.

Respectfully disagree. If you want to stay on stock tune or go with a tune up to 300-310 whp in a daily driver, BNR S1 is the bullet proof permanent solution to the smoking K04. It replicates K04 power delivery curve, has no vices, and will not smoke.

Not all of us want or need more power or want the turbo lag of the larger turbos.

[LenSpeed6]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 Respectfully disagree. If you want to stay on stock tune or go with a tune up to 300-310 whp in a daily driver, BNR S1 is the bullet proof permanent solution to the smoking K04. It replicates K04 power delivery curve, has no vices, and will not smoke. Not all of us want or need more power or want the turbo lag of the larger turbos.

well said! exactly my thinking and motive!

[CWP_MS3]

Originally Posted by MSMS3 Respectfully disagree. If you want to stay on stock tune or go with a tune up to 300-310 whp in a daily driver, BNR S1 is the bullet proof permanent solution to the smoking K04. It replicates K04 power delivery curve, has no vices, and will not smoke. Not all of us want or need more power or want the turbo lag of the larger turbos.

We are arguing two different points.

If smokey turbo is what you want to avoid, then you need to raise your idle. My point was a BNR s1 is $900. You could buy 4 used turbos before you even touch that kind of money, to make the same kind of power. I've run the map that made the 330whp in my sig for over 4 years daily driven until last year. I'm on a catless downpipe, and have had a raised idle since day one. And a BNR s3 hardly has lag.

If 300-310 is what you want to make, Nishan just turned out 2 cars making more than that on 93 and stock turbo. One was 313 and another at 327 (only god knows how). And I have seen plenty make over 300. Most less than 310 though, but I have seen several over.

[flapjack]

Not sure if you have experience with gen 1 or the speed 6 but our cars have a different setup for the pcv system than gen2s which is worse for the turbo smoke problem. I've tried every possible fix for it posted on this forum including raising the idle and mine still smokes to this day. In fact, raising the idle made it worse.

If he bought a used stocker, it'd only be a matter of time before it starts to smoke if it doesn't already when he puts it on. BNR S1 seems like a great choice for him since all he wants is stock power levels with no smoking.

[LenSpeed6]

I would love to avoid a K04 if I can, if budget allows, really only for the fact that its going to smoke eventually and I'm looking to not replace the turbo every few years (I'm exaggerating i know) the fact is that this car is my daily/winter car, I dont need all the power of horses that I can squeeze out of this thing, just need it not to explode again. I do see the point that its not much more for an S3, I get it but its not needed in my application.

For my build I'm looking to put Manley H-beam rods and pistons, CS HPFP and line, AP, I just did the timing set with updated vvt actuator just before #4 got pissed so that can be reused seeing as those components have 6 miles on them, while I'm at it a turbo just in case. Not looking to make 1000 hp just want to put better stuff in this thing. If the car makes 300 HP cool, this car is just a fun daily for me not a friggin drag car, already got one.

Seems like a lot of you guys are on the bus about the stock tune being the ultimate problem with these cars, its hard to believe that Ford/Mazda could screw up so bad that they didnt recall all of these cars to get re-flashed. I'm sure in my case not knowing the previous history on this car is what led to it exploding, I have no idea how this car was treated before me and I am convinced that the JBR intake that I installed just before it exploded had no factor in what happened. HPFP and AP were in the near future for this car from day one of me owning it.

[Fstrnyou]

Not to jump on the LSPI bandwagon, but a slower spooling turbo can be a good thing.

[LenSpeed6]

Maybe I'm a complete idiot but I'm sure there is a way to make a turbo spool differently (with limitations) besides putting a huge one on.

[MSMS3]

Originally Posted by LenSpeed6 Maybe I'm a complete idiot but I'm sure there is a way to make a turbo spool differently (with limitations) besides putting a huge one on.

It can be addressed in the tune and with wastegate spring pressure.

[Fstrnyou]

If the spring pressure is low enough, you can have decent control. With the K04 @ 10psi or so, I ran 0% WGDC up to 3k. 10psi putting around town is plenty. It spools fast enough to hit whatever target you wish by 3500. Although, the ramp from 3000 to 3500 feels abnormal. Hitting target boost by 4000 feels a lot less like hitting a nitrous button.

Currently running Corksport turbo, the lowest I can get the base pressure set to is 12psi.