GT vs BNR

[EdgeAutosport.com]

With all this discussion of upgrading our stock frame turbo, lets reflect on the pros and cons of the turbos.


The turbos I want to bring into discussion are ones that are comparable to the BNR 3 or above

BNR 3/GT2871/GTX2867/GT3071

Which of the four turbos above can get you to 400whp on a dyno? I dont want talk about V dynos they are fake and I want to discuss only real numbers.

BNR3-(maybe) @Ziggo I know you were on the dyno in tx care to share?
GT2871(maybe) @Dano what are your latest numbers?
GTX2867 (someone get this on a dyno so we can say yes)
GT3071(yes) @Voltwings been on the dyno yet?

How many miles do you guys have on your BNR turbo's?

How many miles do the garrett guys have on their turbos?

Discuss why you bought what turbo you did and be honest if you want more power. What you like about it and what you dont. If you could change one thing about it what would it be ect.

[mtnrunner]

Thread = win.

I do think we should stick to mazda flange turbos (not comparing a t3 gt turbo to stock frame). also put a mods list of the major mods for comparison here.

[aggierandy]

@S-hendrix putting down 326 hp on bnr 93 octane (no corn round these parts)

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[trf5000]

Does this mean you are going to start selling BNR3s!?

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by aggierandy @S-hendrix putting down 326 hp on bnr 93 octane (no corn round these parts) Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

This is exactly what I wanted to know. Those are some low numbers for a 1100 upgrade imo. Corn does wonders but I dont think a bnr3 is capable of 400whp but maybe someone will prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by trf5000 Does this mean you are going to start selling BNR3s!?

Hahahah unfortunately not but I will hook you up on a GT series

[Haltech]

Toss 2871 into trash can, replace with BNR S3

3071
3076
@dturboman had the highest hp 2871 ive ever seen.. So, hopefully.. he will lay down his #'s... he is also in the 500s with a 3071

[trf5000]

@atvfreek

[KILLER_VIZ]

Subbin for great info!

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by Haltech Toss 2871 into trash can, replace with BNR S3 3071 3076

Im pretty sure a 2871 will outflow a bnr3

[rfinkle2]

I apologize if I was aggressively posting. I didn't intend to make EDGE look like the bad guy here.

I'm pissed off @ ATP @ the moment, and it probably bled into what and why I posted in this thread.

The guys @ Edge have done me right, and ATP has a good track record.


The BNR S3 is every bit as capable as a 2871, but not in the league of the 3071.

I don't give a shit what you guys say about v dyno... It is accurate enough to make the above claim.

None of the BT's are going to make in excess of 330 hp or so (EDITED 9/14/12 to clarify depending on the dyno) on pump gas whether a BNR or a Garrett.

[Code Monkey]

IIRC, @S-hendrix also has a stock MAP so is limited to 22 psi of boost + it was hot as hell and he was getting some knock and decided to tune on the safe side.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 The BNR S3 is every bit as capable as a 2871, but not in the league of the 3071. I don't give a shit what you guys say about v dyno... It is accurate enough to make the above claim. None of the BT's are going to make in excess of 330 hp or so on pump gas whether a BNR or a Garrett.

Umm i beg to differ here.. its all in the tune. This isnt 2010...

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport Im pretty sure a 2871 will outflow a bnr3

You sure about this?

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by Haltech Umm i beg to differ here.. its all in the tune. This isnt 2010... You sure about this?

I agree with above and a GTx2867 will make over 375whp on pump all day long with ease


I still think the gt2871 will outflow a bnr3 I think Dano has enough info to prove that but I could be wrong.

[mtnrunner]

We should make sure to address reliability as well. While i can say for sure BNR has great service with their warranties i had two friends only get about 1k miles out of them. one had tons of shaft play and the other had shaft play along with chunks taken out of the compressor wheel. BNR warrantied both turbos and rebuilt them for free but i want to see more reliability out of any turbo.

[uncorked11]

I have some shit VD numbers with my GTX3071, while still in the tuning process. I am hitting roughly 307 hp with a IDC 0f 80-85%.

Edit: 93 octane, 24 psi, 9*

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Haltech Umm i beg to differ here.. its all in the tune. This isnt 2010... You sure about this?

I'll let someone whom YOU think knows what they are talking about confirm my statement for me.

Subbed.

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport I agree with above and a GTx2867 will make over 375whp on pump all day long with ease I still think the gt2871 will outflow a bnr3 I think Dano has enough info to prove that but I could be wrong.

Not a snowball's chance in hell the gtx2867 will make > 375 horse on pump gas.

I guess a "Perm tuner" will need to confirm.

@Lex, @atvfreek @Dano, little help here please.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I'll let someone whom YOU think knows what they are talking about confirm my statement for me. Subbed. Not a snowball's chance in hell the gtx2867 will make > 375 horse on pump gas. I guess a "Perm tuner" will need to confirm. @Lex, @atvfreek, little help here please.

I guess 375 is a bit high but with E its a given. Ive seen guys dyno on pump with a gt3071 at over 375whp and by looking at the compressor map of a GTX2867 its right on par with a GT3071

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 The BNR S3 is every bit as capable as a 2871, but not in the league of the 3071. I don't give a shit what you guys say about v dyno... It is accurate enough to make the above claim. None of the BT's are going to make in excess of 330 hp or so on pump gas whether a BNR or a Garrett.

I personally watched this guy (dude in black, sorry I don't remember your name) make 380whp on the dyno in New Jersey at the Epic East Coast Nator Meet in April. He did it with a GT3071 on 93oct in a 1st gen.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 I personally watched this guy (dude in black, sorry I don't remember your name) make 380whp on the dyno in New Jersey at the Epic East Coast Nator Meet in April. He did it with a GT3071 on 93oct in a 1st gen.

No meth? totally uncommon.

I'll let this thread play out, and revisit.

Pretty obvious Eric is worried about his ATP sales to a BNR though, imo.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by mtnrunner We should make sure to address reliability as well. While i can say for sure BNR has great service with their warranties i had two friends only get about 1k miles out of them. one had tons of shaft play and the other had shaft play along with chunks taken out of the compressor wheel. BNR warrantied both turbos and rebuilt them for free but i want to see more reliability out of any turbo.

This is also a great point, I ran 25k out of my gt3076 without issue at over 24psi the entire life span and took it off and it was in great condition. I realized we have seen a few of these garrett turbos fail lately but what products dont fail when you sell 100's of them.

[mtnrunner]

^^^Alan, do you remember how much power he made?

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 No meth? totally uncommon.

No meth...

Oh, but this point may be invalid because I think he had a T3.

So nvm...

[mtnrunner]

Finkle, i doubt they are worried at all about atp sales dropping. for one the profit margin is small and the supporting mods are the same for both setups.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 No meth... Oh, but this point may be invalid because I think he had a T3. So nvm...

@cld12pk2go, @Voltwings... 3071's check in please.

Originally Posted by mtnrunner Finkle, i doubt they are worried at all about atp sales dropping. for one the profit margin is small and the supporting mods are the same for both setups.

I don't know man, it smells that way to me.

My opinion. I respect yours.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Pretty obvious Eric is worried about his ATP sales to a BNR though, imo.

I think my sales will be just fine, I was more interested in if the BNR3 or the above turbos listed can actually make 400whp on a dyno.

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by mtnrunner ^^^Alan, do you remember how much power he made?

I want to say 389, but I can't remember for sure. I have the video somewhere though it may be on a computer back in Texas...

[JDW1]

Originally Posted by mtnrunner We should make sure to address reliability as well. While i can say for sure BNR has great service with their warranties i had two friends only get about 1k miles out of them. one had tons of shaft play and the other had shaft play along with chunks taken out of the compressor wheel. BNR warrantied both turbos and rebuilt them for free but i want to see more reliability out of any turbo.

What are the symptoms of this?

Reliability should be a factor as well as performance. I'd like to see the S3 vs 2871, it's a closer comparison than the 3071 for sure.

[8.5MS3]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 The BNR S3 is every bit as capable as a 2871, but not in the league of the 3071. I don't give a shit what you guys say about v dyno... It is accurate enough to make the above claim. None of the BT's are going to make in excess of 330 hp or so on pump gas whether a BNR or a Garrett.

really? most guys on pump on the k04 are within 20hp of that fully bolted

shit im within 15hp no meth or alternative fueling on pump

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport I think my sales will be just fine, I was more interested in if the BNR3 or the above turbos listed can actually make 400whp on a dyno.

I guess Eric, it is coincidental that the BNR is gaining a lot of popularity and this thread pops up, but if that is what your question is, it will be answered.

Originally Posted by 8.5MS3 really? most guys on pump on the k04 are within 20hp of that fully bolted shit im within 15hp no meth or alternative fueling on pump

Yes. That is true. I'll let the BT guys chime in.

[BigJimMs3]

Subbed in.... this shit looks like its going to be intense.

[rfinkle2]

Who would you guys have faith in if THEY said it...

Tag em and ask.

[8.5MS3]

i for one am actually seriously interested in this thread

i know my requirements but am unsure of the turbo choice

i want 375ish hp

i need quick spool for autox

i dont want to push 25+psi to get there

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Who would you guys have faith in if THEY said it... Tag em and ask.

no need

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...7-9wtq-110833/

[dturboman]

*all of below are real dynojets not VD's*

GT2871 dyno 21.5 timing, 93 octane and 30% of fueling coming from 100% meth iirc it was about 75 degrees during the runs
.... I'm still convinced I could have gotten an extra 20-30whp out of it on more boost and leaks fixed. Curve was soo smooth too. I had a 415 run as well.



2871 NO meth, 18* timing, 20psi, 93 pump


Gt3071, C16 32psi 22.5* max timing *was 517 uncorrected* - 60-70 degrees


GTX3582 28psi 13* timing, injector died @ 5400rpm - 90+ temps

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I guess Eric, it is coincidental that the BNR is gaining a lot of popularity and this thread pops up

You are exactly right, alot of BNR turbos have been popping up and im glad to see more mazda's ruining peoples days because of this but im just trying ask why people choose one over the other and show actual numbers.

Im still an enthusiast like everyone else at the end of the day and the more options for our platform the better imo even if it means I wont get the sale.

[Domino81]

I was honestly under the impression 400 whp was EASILY achievable out of the 3071 and 3076.

[Boosted Beluga]

According to vdyno, ziggo made higher numbers then Dano.

[Mchart]

chub material

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Originally Posted by Domino81 I was honestly under the impression 400 whp was EASILY achievable out of the 3071 and 3076.

It is with Ethanol or meth.

[Todd98SE]

Originally Posted by 8.5MS3 really? most guys on pump on the k04 are within 20hp of that fully bolted shit im within 15hp no meth or alternative fueling on pump

I think what @rfinkle2 is getting at is that regardless of turbo (and especially using a mazda flanged turbine housing) we are knock limited by regular fuel. No meth, no E, no water injection, you will have a hard time consistently getting over 350-375ish on the above mentioned turbos. Also dont throw out numbers from a dyno in 20 degree weather while throwing ice on the intercooler, those are outliers and not really representative of this survey.

[Colin1337]

I did the whole modded stock turbo thing on my SRT, and it personally left me wanting more. Ended up getting an AGP .50 trim and couldnt have been happier.

SSTs are cool and all, but unless you auto-x a lot, I think youd get bored.