Introduction... Darrell Cox Racing and the MZR 2.3L DISI

[FantasmoNegro]

I could hear Mark in heaven right now....."Bout fuckin time Randy, what took you so long? I guess you didn't care about going fast before now." or he would have given you his somber approval nodded his head and said "Good" and continued to cuss out whatever he was working on for that moment.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Sleeper 362 I could hear Mark in heaven right now....."Bout fuckin time Randy, what took you so long? I guess you didn't care about going fast before now." or he would have given you his somber approval nodded his head and said "Good" and continued to cuss out whatever he was working on for that moment.

i think he would gone with number 2 there...lol Seriously...its only fitting DCR gets involved.... modding this thing is gonna be fun again. I miss him so much. Im sure theres gonna be alot of "what would mark say" moments ahead.

Originally Posted by CaptainKRM glad to hear this on the phone from you today Randy. i know its been in the works for the last few weeks and its nice to see the formal announcement today. its a big step forward for the community and I'm glad you and Darrell are bringing me/PG along for the ride. happy to provide DCR with whatever he or you needs. there's going to be alot of good from this relationship not only for you, but the mazdaspeed world as a whole. if DCR can do here what they have done elsewhere, people will have alot to be thankful for. and of course, your car is going to be pretty bad ass at the end of the day. good work man!

kens already committed to some parts for this project guys....
and i want to formally thank him.... in advance.

i have a feeling were gonna need a few blocks waiting in the hole here buddy. are you up to the task?

[Deadman]

this is probably the best news to hear on this car in a looong time... Hoping that they can find the power in the car for even us on the lower end, ones that are looking for the 300-400 awhp/whp range Great stuff again Randy

[CaptainKRM]

Originally Posted by palerider kens already committed to some parts for this project guys.... and i want to formally thank him.... in advance. i have a feeling were gonna a motor in the hole for awhile here buddy. are you up to the task?

i always have been, regardless of where others have stood on the project for you. i'm one speed dial away for you on this project.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Deadman this is probably the best news to hear on this car in a looong time... Hoping that they can find the power in the car for even us on the lower end, ones that are looking for the 300-400 awhp/whp range Great stuff again Randy

man thats what the goal is even going to be initially. we havent seen anybody actually hold a car together at 350-400. let alone tracking it, racing it, ragging on it. I mean shit.... if i get 400-450whp and the thing is bulletproof and tuneable.... thats gonna get it done for 99.9% of us.

and as far as thanking me... geez guys i appreciate it, but seriously, save it for darrell. Hes the one thats gonna do this work, and hes the one were all gonna owe our thanks to.

I cant wait until he sees this and makes his first post on our forum here. To him its not gonna be that huge a deal.... but to us its gonna be the end of the biggest cockblock in the history of the aftermarket. Weve dominated every comparo for the last 2-3 years... thats why we all bought these cars. Weve had our boners busted ever since.

[Derek88]

Wow, just wow. Everyone said 2009 was the year for this car- and this is a great start!

I am super excited about this. DCR is a great shop and it'll be nice to go in there and not see only SRTs in there. lol

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Derek88 Wow, just wow. Everyone said 2009 was the year for this car- and this is a great start! I am super excited about this. DCR is a great shop and it'll be nice to go in there and not see only SRTs in there. lol

well i was there yesterday... and he had a bt mazdaspeed protege sitting on the dyno. i was floored.

[chad]

there is still a 400 hp next door if you wanna trade for a vw....hehehe...

this is good news

cx7 with 450 hp.....hmmmm.....autotrader here i come

[Smoker6]

This is great news! I'm excited to see what comes from this, even though it means I'll have to hold off on my BT and built engine plans. Do it right the first time if you can, I say. lol

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by chad there is still a 400 hp next door if you wanna trade for a vw....hehehe... this is good news cx7 with 450 hp.....hmmmm.....autotrader here i come

theres a bunch of cx7 guys on this board that would LOVE to see you turn the thing into a cayenne killer. I need to hook up vendorship on the cx7 board anyway for the cpe stuff. im surprised at the amount of guys that mod that thing.... but no turbo upgrades yet?!? right?

[Superstretch18]

Originally Posted by palerider theres a bunch of cx7 guys on this board that would LOVE to see you turn the thing into a cayenne killer. I need to hook up vendorship on the cx7 board anyway for the cpe stuff. im surprised at the amount of guys that mod that thing.... but no turbo upgrades yet?!? right?

Not yet. At least not that I know of.

And yes, I would LOVE to see how this plays out! Great news Randy!

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername didn't they give up and disappear on the caliber srt4 after a while?

was that before or after they made over 500whp on the stock block?

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...ke-500whp.html

[smakdown61]

Originally Posted by Unoriginalusername didn't they give up and disappear on the caliber srt4 after a while?

The SRT platform is gonna go the way of the dinosaur come next year....hell Chrystler/dodge might not even be around anymore. And with Chevy disbanning their SS line, theres not a whole lot of cheap performance on the horizon. If I were DCR, I'd be throwing money into R&D for this car since the engine is being reused for the 2nd gen ms3, but also the Genesis 2.0t. That thing could be DSM 2.0 in terms of modding.

[MS6_Auburn_Fan]

I'm really interested in there process of how they plan to develop this engine. I think Haltech hit on something that needs to be explored and that's bumping up the compression on this engine. Hell bump up the compression to 10:1 and fix the fueling we might just unlock some doors.

Exciting news. Looking forward to seeing where this is going to go.

[fbpem1]

i've talked about raising the compression multiple times but most people just say its stupid...wtf has changed in a day since i last said it...

[JimmyMac]

So what approach are they gonna take? They gonna start on a complete stocker and go from there? Or they gonna play with your "built" block?

[SSinstaller]

This is great news!!! Glad to hear we're finally going to get some real developement going on this engine...

I'll be calling you tomorrow..

I'll have a stock longblock laying around in a month or two... I hope my PG motor holds up until DCR can get some of these issues figured out..

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac So what approach are they gonna take? They gonna start on a complete stocker and go from there? Or they gonna play with your "built" block?

well the car is getting trailered there this week. im sure then theyll take everything off. i hope to have oem parts available for comparison. lots of my stuff isnt of course.... but that is good too. they'll see what 2 years of our aftermarket has come up with already.

then id imagine the motor comes out and we see why built motor number one is gunked. ive held off on public speculation as to why it failed, but after we see the internals... i think we'll know more and i intend on being alot more open about things that occurred then.

i also have an oem motor. its out of a speed6, bent rod... but intact. ive got a blown one with the rod coming out... 4 heads, counting the ones on those 3.

as far as timetables... i dont know. they speculated anywhere from 3 weeks to 2 months before wed have a number to post. Of course the production versions of whatever they offer will come later. Honestly... im out of my league a little on this one. darrell said hed check the forum out soon and post. hes kind of a results guy, so i'll post what i can.... and let him make the big announcements. I guess when we actually have findings to share it will be his oppurtunity then.

im just glad im not gonna pump boost into another expensive motor that hasnt had any aftermarket r/d by a guy that knows what hes doing. You cant imagine the anxiety of always worrying no matter what your rods are made out of. It will be nice to have someone else be the guinea pig on it.....
and i plan on being Tom Brokaw during the process.

[sweetpickles]

Exciting stuff! Props to everyone involved - can't wait to hear some definitive results, explanations and progress. Thanks Randy for getting this going, whether by dumb luck, monetary bribes or promises of free beer and lap dances for the entire DCR crew - I salute you!

I just hope you look good in a g-string Randy so they don't rescind their offer

[XXxx_Totmacher_xxXX]

I call Bull Shit, the Neon wasn't racing...

[06Speed6]

Ive never blown an engine I have built, but dang this engine is expensive to mod with all the one of a kind custom shit. Hopefully they come out with some good cheap parts.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by XXxx_Totmacher_xx I call Bull Shit, the Neon wasn't racing...

it was too, and the ms3 had 2 fatass passengers. still won. nice first post james.

[ms3guy22]

Sorry Randy for the jacking,
But higher compression, really? lower compression allows more boost safely. ever wonder why the sti is at 8:5, the srt is at 8:1. n/a motors benefit from higher compression but not boosted motors. its all about cyclinder pressure here. you need to over come it with fuel thats why our compression is higher because of the DI. But pump up the compression and see what happens.

[wassup61]

Originally Posted by ms3guy22 Sorry Randy for the jacking, But higher compression, really? lower compression allows more boost safely. ever wonder why the sti is at 8:5, the srt is at 8:1. n/a motors benefit from higher compression but not boosted motors. its all about cyclinder pressure here. you need to over come it with fuel thats why our compression is higher because of the DI. But pump up the compression and see what happens.

Lower compression is beneficial on traditionally boosted motors, but on this platform we are limited with fueling/airflow, so its possibly the only solution since adding more boost in doesn't work as it does in traditional FI applications

Palerider, best of luck with the DCR solution, I cant wait to see what comes of this.

-Jeff at PG

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Ive never blown an engine I have built, but dang this engine is expensive to mod with all the one of a kind custom shit. Hopefully they come out with some good cheap parts.

you havent been trying hard enough to make power then!

Ive blown several engines in the past.. 1000hp goal makes this a possibility!

[SgtP]

this is great news. just in time for me to move to the west coast huh randy

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by Haltech you havent been trying hard enough to make power then! Ive blown several engines in the past.. 1000hp goal makes this a possibility!

I way way over build, its far cheaper to over build than under build.

[phailerider]

allright cleaned the thread up.
this is most likely the first thread darrell reads on this board and i dont want him to spend all of his valuable time reading about....

1. tranny issues that arent issues except in this thread
2. moderator grade cards
3. lego fetishs... that is kinda funny tho

anyway. all those posts are gone. i would love to focus our attention on...

1. why these motors all lock up powerwise below 400whp. yes they actually do. its not a "nobodys tried before issue". no matter what we pump in.... the power gains stop.
2. why our built motors are not holding up.

I think the first official dcr thread in my section could benefit from some collective brainstorming instead of the continued "head in the hole" syndrome weve had for the last year.
Anyway...carry on.

[Laloosh]

well are you guys set to keep the DI are you going to add secondary port injection?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Laloosh well are you guys set to keep the DI are you going to add secondary port injection?

that will be a last resort im sure. its not like hes dropping everything for this.... im sure we start with his educated guess on a built motor and we start from there.

[fbpem1]

a secondary port injection would be the easiest way w/ a load based controller just the exact same thing as USP motorsports sells for the VW i don't know why its made out to be such a mystery its been done before.

also, Hi Randy, did you know its snowing? who's getting the car?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 a secondary port injection would be the easiest way w/ a load based controller just the exact same thing as USP motorsports sells for the VW i don't know why its made out to be such a mystery its been done before. also, Hi Randy, did you know its snowing? who's getting the car?

you doing anything? the car still needs to be picked up.

and ive been a proponent of sencondary fueling for awhile... its not off the table. i just dont want to speak until we try a few things first. i doubt hes gonna go straight for that. he hasnt even seen the damn car yet with a mind to mod it. before we just move onto that...i think wed probably want to see how the motor responds.

honestly... we just havent spoken about it enough yet to make some of these conclusions. i just know the car has hurdles we havent overcome, and im excited to see his take on it before i encourage him to just skip it and do a new intake/fueling setup.

I know mark would have loved the carte blanche fuck it attirude i have now, but his first thought would have still to keep the car true to itself. I figure darrell will approach it the same way.

[fbpem1]

i have my qualms about that keep true to itself but oh well lol it is what it is, to much engeenering wrapped up behind the pump and to make it flow more larger cam followeres this that and the other, aside from just manipulating the injector driver and telling it to stay open longer than 40% duty cycle and such but there i go agian getting a little to much into things as i'm prone to do.

No i'm not doing anything but theres a shit ton of snow lol i don't know how the roads in maryland are at the moment. And the back roads around me are still shit, the trailer i need is all back together though which is good for one lol i'll keep you updated sir.

[Andrew85]

I think I love you palerider!

[redrocketz]

Originally Posted by palerider well i was there yesterday... and he had a bt mazdaspeed protege sitting on the dyno. i was floored.

Unfortunately they can't learn much from that car to apply to the 3's in any way.

[killa cam]

Originally Posted by palerider 1. why these motors all lock up powerwise below 400whp. yes they actually do. its not a "nobodys tried before issue". no matter what we pump in.... the power gains stop.

there hasn't been a car that has held up long enough to do 400whp dude... they all fuckin break before then!

but i agree, the easiest thing to do is add port fuel injection to get more fuel in this car. the current gen sb can handle batch fire, but i guess sb3 will be able to do sequential. either that or get a controller to handle it. inject straight e85, that would be cool.

[06Speed6]

I dont see a fuel problem really, everything is pretty much done fixed as far as that goes. Unfortunately some of those parts might as well be one of a kind.

The problem I see are:

#1 crank movement
#2 no good HP clutch options
#3 no SFI flywheels/clutches
#4 no bolt in in-tank pump systems
#5 a IM and throttle body that is realisticly flow limited to ~415chp
#6 no good BV head options
#7 no cheap (sub $600) head porting options (im not talkin max effort here)
#8 no machined and ceramic coated chamber options
#9 no CoP options (unless ATE can get some people in gear)
#10 no diff covers with integrated girdles (this is going to be a problem with the high hp guys)
#11 no diff coolers (this is why peoples diffs whine, it was a huge problem on the Caddy CTS-V)

I think thats it for now.

[XXxx_Totmacher_xxXX]

2 posts and 1 already gets deleted... Was it something i said? I'll play nice with unoriginal, I swear.

Whats with this Groan shit? is that how you people identify non MS owners?

"Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post"

hah Laloosh! "Groaned at 86 Times in 61 Posts" you're my new hero.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 I way way over build, its far cheaper to over build than under build.

Thats not exactly what im getting at. Take a new platform and throw 110% into it. If you truly are trying to make the most effective horsepower, you will blow an engine here and there.

If you are playing around with older tried and true platforms, the recipes are already there to follow. Thats what makes it a big difference between the two.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by XXxx_Totmacher_xx 2 posts and 1 already gets deleted... Was it something i said? I'll play nice with unoriginal, I swear. Whats with this Groan shit? is that how you people identify non MS owners? "Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post" hah Laloosh! "Groaned at 86 Times in 61 Posts" you're my new hero.

your killing me here.